hey guys,
I started a testosterone E cycle 500mg weekly about 16 weeks ago.
At around 10 weeks I noticed some gyno development, so I upped my AI. (arimidex) to daily.
I got some bloodwork done at week 12:
Testosterone (Total): 2267 ng/dL
Testosterone (Free): 910 pg/mL
Estradiol: 49 pg/mL
Prolactin: 14.9 ng/mL
Haven’t noticed much reduction in the lumps
Please advise?
I think you need a SERM to start to reduce the lump.
How much arimidex were/are you taking? I always found it to be too unpredictable for me. If I use anything now it’s aromason.
Whats the range on the estrogen lab?
< OR = 39 pg/mL
I was wondering if the prolactin could be causing it?
The arimidex I was taking prior to noticing the lump was 1/2 pill EOD (1mg pills) so 0.5mg EOD
I upped it to 1mg daily. No difference.
I bought some Caber too and started taking that at 0.5mg EOD.
My insomnia is getting slightly worse too. Only getting 5 hours or so a night and can’t sleep much past 3am.
Going for repeat bloods today as I’ve been taking the increased AI for about 3 weeks now
I don’t think your estrogen is that bad. It;s gonna be elevated when your test is high. Mine always runs very high but i get no symptoms.
Thats a shit ton man. 1mg daily is gonna crash your estrogen in no time. That was my weekly dose.
I wouldn’t just start adding drugs. Get your bloods done first.
What is the range. 500mg test shoudn’t really do anything to prolactin.
So what is causing the gyno then? Think I should drop the AI dose to EOD and start Nolva daily?
Get the bloods and post them otherwise we are just guessing.
There have been members getting gyno with “normal” estrogen levels. Testosterone, DHT, FSH, prolactin, higher growth hormone and IGF-1 all play a part in gyno development.
Results:
Fifty-two of 106 boys (49%) developed gynecomastia, of which 10 (19%) presented with intermittent gynecomastia. Boys with physiological gynecomastia reached peak height velocity at a significantly younger age than boys who did not develop gynecomastia (13.5 versus 13.9 years, P = .027), and they had significantly higher serum levels of IGF-1 (P = .000), estradiol (P = .013), free testosterone (P < .001), and FSH (P= .030) during pubertal transition. However, no differences in serum LH or in the estradiol to testosterone ratio were found.
Conclusions:
Gynecomastia is frequent in pubertal boys. Increased IGF-1 levels and pubertal growth appear to be associated, whereas changes in estrogen to testosterone ratio seem negligible.
I want to add that the majority of men who think they’re having symptoms related to estrogen are in fact not. TRT increases blood plasma and changes in sodium reabsorption are the cause of the so-called estrogen symptoms.
The AI’s are bandaids.
Strongly agree with you @systemlord : most cases are pseudo-gyno. It’s hard to distinguish between fat tissue and breast gland.
Plus :
Airimidex, aromasin, femara are not effective in countering already installed gyno : anti-aromatase is a slow process. The same goes for Cabergoline in combatting prolactine production. Be aware though, side effects, especially psychological are hard to control, being a dopamine receptor agonist
If sure about this being gyno,I’d rather take Clomiphene or Tamoxiphene citrate, both can get rid of starting tits in a few days.
Last thing… 10 weeks on test… maybe you just put on too much fat on that bulk. Time to think about cutting it short…
Got my bloods back.
Prolactin <1.0 ng/mL
Estradiol 86 pg/mL
So the letro 2.5mg I’ve been taking for 2 weeks is clearly fake because my estradiol before starting that was 49
(prolactin was 14 ng/mL)
This is my last week on cycle, but I’m not concerned about my PCT nolvadex being a dud too? If I cycle off and it is, that would be catastrophic