[quote]TDog305 wrote:
This just remindeded me, I work out at 3 different gyms, but will only work my legs at one…
There goes the theory about the dope that never works his legs[/quote]
You are an exception. Very few people regularly go to different gyms.
What, nobody is willing to jump in and say that those monsters who don’t work out like normal are on 'roids?
[quote]sasquatch wrote:
What conclusion did I jump to when inferring that the OP has no idea of the training regimine of these guys? Does he see their every move? Is this a completely bizzare thought that he may not see their full routines?
Out of context? You seem to think that there is only one way to build muscle. This could be inferred by your response–‘just think what they’d look like if they knew what they were doing’–Who interpolated what? You guessed. I went from your reply. WOW!
I simply gave a counterpoint to your old tired argument. If someone isn’t doing it your way, they must be gentically gifted or on roids. Or, as you put it, just think how much bigger they’d be if they knew what they were doing’. Maybe it wasn’t I who jumped to a bunch of conclusions.[/quote]
This is why I hate arguing on internet forums.
Obviously we speak/comprehend a completely different language based on that rant.
Look, think whatever the fuck you want. I don’t really care about this enough to go into an argument on semantics with you.
peace
[quote]PGJ wrote:
What’s up with those guys in the gym who obviously don’t know what they’re doing, slinging around weight like a circus act, yet still have huge arms, chest, back. They never do legs, just bench, bench, bench, curl, curl, curl. I hate those guys… [/quote]
Intensity and determination(along with good genetics) can many times trump a good workout plan, no matter how good it is.
[quote]VIKINGPOWER wrote:
Intensity and determination(along with good genetics) can many times trump a good workout plan, no matter how good it is.[/quote]
Let face it.
Genetics>Drugs>Determination>Knowledge
A guy with superior genetics will usually beat a guy with average genetics with chemical assistance. Both will beat a guy with never that has great heart. A guy with great genetics or drug use or someone who truly lives by the motto of “failure is not an option” will usually beat a knowledgeable guy with none of the above.
As much as we’d like to think otherwise, while knowledge is very important to go the distance and take us to the next level, it can’t beat genetics, drugs or even willpower.
[quote]vroom wrote:
What, nobody is willing to jump in and say that those monsters who don’t work out like normal are on 'roids?[/quote]
I AM! (Sometimes)
[quote]Nomancer wrote:
TDog305 wrote:
This just remindeded me, I work out at 3 different gyms, but will only work my legs at one…
There goes the theory about the dope that never works his legs
You are an exception. Very few people regularly go to different gyms.[/quote]
I disagree. People in areas where there are multiple choices, and those of us who have friends at different places workout all over. I work at one gym, so I workout there. I have three other clubs accessible to me by being staff, so I work out at the others. My gf goes to a gym by her place, sometimes I go there. My old training partner moved 30 minutes away, some days I drive out to there to workout with him. I’m not alone. Many people do this.
I’m very picky about what workouts I do with which equipment.
[quote]OARSMAN wrote:
MarcAnthony wrote:
PGJ wrote:
What’s up with those guys in the gym who obviously don’t know what they’re doing, slinging around weight like a circus act, yet still have huge arms, chest, back. They never do legs, just bench, bench, bench, curl, curl, curl. I hate those guys…
They train nothing like you do, yet are getting better results.
Think about that for a moment.
Yeah Marc Anthony think about that for a minute.
Could it be:
they’ve been training longer?
Have better genetics?
Take roids?
As I put in the previous post:
Imagine it they actually knew what they were doing.
They could conceivably be 20-30lbs. heavier and are probably leaving about an inch on their arms on the table.
Think about that for a moment.
peace
[/quote]
Some people see the glass half emtpy and others see it half full.
Ultimately, there is no right or wrong answer, so you should just pick the point of view that makes you happiest and leads you to what you want.
Arguing on the interent is alot like winning the special olympics. Even if you win, you’re still retarded.
[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
Nomancer wrote:
TDog305 wrote:
This just remindeded me, I work out at 3 different gyms, but will only work my legs at one…
There goes the theory about the dope that never works his legs
You are an exception. Very few people regularly go to different gyms.
I disagree. People in areas where there are multiple choices, and those of us who have friends at different places workout all over. I work at one gym, so I workout there. I have three other clubs accessible to me by being staff, so I work out at the others. My gf goes to a gym by her place, sometimes I go there. My old training partner moved 30 minutes away, some days I drive out to there to workout with him. I’m not alone. Many people do this.
I’m very picky about what workouts I do with which equipment. [/quote]
Most people don’t have money to pay for 3 or 4 memberships, or connections like you. Not everybody is that picky, either. I can see it though, especially if one gym has some equipment you like, but no dumbbells heavy enough, no power rack, etc.
I’ve heard people criticize my form, and that’s fair, but I make consistent gains. While I’m practicing ‘bad form’, I’m feeling my muscles working hard, and that’s what counts. I’ve yet to reach a sticking point, 16 months into my lifting. Given the choice between stopping at 10 reps with good form, and hitting 5 more reps with poor form, I’ll take the extra 5. The extra ‘cheat’ assistance enables me to get the weight to the place in the movement that will really tax the muscle, and without it I’d be stopping the set without really working the muscle as hard as I could.
The extra motion involved in the cheat action also bolsters the ancillary muscles, therefore adding a more complete strength to the area. I also know that highly-focused, perfectly-performed reps have their place in my workouts too, and I include those regularly. Having said that, I must admit that it disturbs me when I see someone doing ALL cheat reps, lol, so I guess it’s all relative.
As long as you don’t cheat enough to get injured.
[quote]Kratos wrote:
TrainerinDC wrote:
Nomancer wrote:
TDog305 wrote:
This just remindeded me, I work out at 3 different gyms, but will only work my legs at one…
There goes the theory about the dope that never works his legs
You are an exception. Very few people regularly go to different gyms.
I disagree. People in areas where there are multiple choices, and those of us who have friends at different places workout all over. I work at one gym, so I workout there. I have three other clubs accessible to me by being staff, so I work out at the others. My gf goes to a gym by her place, sometimes I go there. My old training partner moved 30 minutes away, some days I drive out to there to workout with him. I’m not alone. Many people do this.
I’m very picky about what workouts I do with which equipment.
Most people don’t have money to pay for 3 or 4 memberships, or connections like you. Not everybody is that picky, either. I can see it though, especially if one gym has some equipment you like, but no dumbbells heavy enough, no power rack, etc.
[/quote]
I think the people that go to different gyms are usually the ones that are more serious about training. And if these “gym-idiots” have developed some size, regardless of what they’re doing, they’re probably somewhat serious. I’m the same way.
I have limited equipment at home that I will use. I have one gym membership that I use. Occasionally I will just pay the one-day fee to go to thy YMCA next door to my job. I will use the weight room where I go to school. And I also have friends with equipment that I will use. That’s five choices, not included the different branches of the gym that my membership is through.
I think going to different gyms is more common than people think, especially for members of a chain gym with different locations.
Ho-hum.
Ive heard this shit since the late 70’s and it’s always guys with neither legs nor tris nor bi’s nor any obvious muscle that complain about “guys” who swing the weights around".
Sorry …when I’m trying to get my 6th 180 pound straight bar curl you can be damn sure i’m cheating up and doing the best to slow the weight on the down.
As far as garden hose legs and big arms go well that’s the problem of the individual lifter. If he likes small legs then let him be. At least he has some size unlike the people who bitch and moan with no size at all.
You worry about yourself and get big everywhere. I don’t even notice these people whenever I happen to go to a public gym. I especially don’t notice you skinny pricks that stand around watching what everyone is doing and taking up space in the gym.
Do your own shit for once. Come in to the gym…workout hard…leave…grow.
That is all.
[quote]grey wrote:
Ho-hum.
Ive heard this shit since the late 70’s and it’s always guys with neither legs nor tris nor bi’s nor any obvious muscle that complain about “guys” who swing the weights around".
Sorry …when I’m trying to get my 6th 180 pound straight bar curl you can be damn sure i’m cheating up and doing the best to slow the weight on the down.
As far as garden hose legs and big arms go well that’s the problem of the individual lifter. If he likes small legs then let him be. At least he has some size unlike the people who bitch and moan with no size at all.
You worry about yourself and get big everywhere. I don’t even notice these people whenever I happen to go to a public gym. I especially don’t notice you skinny pricks that stand around watching what everyone is doing and taking up space in the gym.
Do your own shit for once. Come in to the gym…workout hard…leave…grow.
That is all.[/quote]
Congratulations, Mr. Macho Man! (joking , bro! )
Why is it all or nothing with you guys ?
A little cheating is fine. But if you are cheating ALL the time - for example, in your 180 lb. barbell curl example - if someone has to crane their back so that the back of their head is almost parallel to the ground on the FIRST REP is that “cheating” or just being an idiot and using too much weight ?
Where do you draw the line?
I think that was the jist of what the original poster was saying. Obviously those mooks got some size, based on what he wrote - but my argument would have been imagine how much bigger they could be if they actually used some common sense - work to the limits of their strength (while still using reasonable form that hits the intended muscle group) at a hypertrophy inducing rep range and then if they have to cheat to crank out those last couple of reps (which by the way take some of the load off the biceps) then knock yourself out.
Imagine how much bigger they could be if they worked the whole body and maybe drop the weight 20% so they can do some proper reps.
So fine, those mooks are big - but if they got their heads out of their ass they could probably be much bigger. Which for a lot of guys like that is kind of the whole point, isn’t it?
Just a thought.
[quote]PGJ wrote:
Well…I’m talkin about the guys DB curling 70lbs by leaning way over then slinging the weight up to their shoulders while leaning all the way back or doing cable rows with a rediculous weight, bent over all the way then leaning all the way back and bringing the handle to their bellybutton, or doing bench by bouncing the weight off their chest, ass way up in the air, bar leaning to the side…
my favorite is the guy who loads about 600lbs on the bar in the squat rack and does “shrugs” by moving the bar about 1/2". I know a little bit of cheating is OK if done under control, but dang. I know you’ve all seen these guys. It frustrates me to see a guy do curls with embarassingly bad form who has great arms.
[/quote]
Just out of curiosity, does the “curls” guy happen to do reverse curls? In that case, he might be doing cleans. Is the shrugs guy holding the weight for a moment at the top? He may just be going for isometric holding of the weight (even after a small raise of the shoulders, it’s the traps holding the weight).
I think you need to consider that some of those things may not be “bad form” after all. Often beginners are taught the safest way to perform an exercise so they don’t hurt themselves. Advanced lifters who have good muscle control may be able to make exercises more effective with adjustments that look strange to you.
[quote]CBassBeer wrote:
Just out of curiosity, does the “curls” guy happen to do reverse curls? In that case, he might be doing cleans. Is the shrugs guy holding the weight for a moment at the top? He may just be going for isometric holding of the weight (even after a small raise of the shoulders, it’s the traps holding the weight).
I think you need to consider that some of those things may not be “bad form” after all. Often beginners are taught the safest way to perform an exercise so they don’t hurt themselves. Advanced lifters who have good muscle control may be able to make exercises more effective with adjustments that look strange to you.[/quote]
Oh come on, the cleans example is patently ridiculous. Unless you have horrific form, it’s pretty difficult to mistake cleans for bad form with curls. I do see your point though.
[quote]OARSMAN wrote:
Congratulations, Mr. Macho Man! (joking , bro! )
Why is it all or nothing with you guys ?
A little cheating is fine. But if you are cheating ALL the time - for example, in your 180 lb. barbell curl example - if someone has to crane their back so that the back of their head is almost parallel to the ground on the FIRST REP is that “cheating” or just being an idiot and using too much weight ?
Where do you draw the line? [/quote]
He said if he is trying for a sixth 180 pound straight bar curl. Im fairly certain his first five are in proper form. (Very impressed with that by the way, my straight bar curls are 5x5 with 155)
[quote] I think that was the jist of what the original poster was saying. Obviously those mooks got some size, based on what he wrote - but my argument would have been imagine how much bigger they could be if they actually used some common sense - work to the limits of their strength (while still using reasonable form that hits the intended muscle group) at a hypertrophy inducing rep range and then if they have to cheat to crank out those last couple of reps (which by the way take some of the load off the biceps) then knock yourself out.
Imagine how much bigger they could be if they worked the whole body and maybe drop the weight 20% so they can do some proper reps.
So fine, those mooks are big - but if they got their heads out of their ass they could probably be much bigger. Which for a lot of guys like that is kind of the whole point, isn’t it?
Just a thought.
[/quote]
Couple issues with your post. You siad a hypertrophy rep range. The rep range for hypertrophy changes with the level of the athlete. So if you see a guy do 4 - 6, you may be thinking he is working for power when he is actually working for hypertrophy. You also said work to the limits of their sttength, the more advanced athletes are conditioned for lower repetition, higher intensity sets, making what you example a prime example of working in the limits of their strengths. And as far as reasonable form is concerned, you don’t know their intentions, so you don’t know if the form is correct or not.
For all my beginning clients, I show the basic, safest way, with the safety and basic rules in effect. With a curl for example, no lean, no cheat light weight, 8 - 12 repetitions, with an ez curl bar. As they advance we drop to as low as 4 - 6 repetitions, with straight bar or bb, or supinated dbs, where I will allow them to lean for extra, or force repetitions. Also for a more advanced trainee, dropping the resistance 20% for textbook form would be like shooting themselves in the foot.
"So fine, those mooks are big - but if they got their heads out of their ass they could probably be much bigger. Which for a lot of guys like that is kind of the whole point, isn’t it? "
I don’t see how you can say they have their heads in their ass when you have no basis from which to speak. My final point is, in this iron game, we can all learn something from everyone else. So before passing judgment on something, introduce yourself, make a friend, and you may learn something. Or you may know for sure that this person is just wrong.
You guys could argue anything. You know when somebody has no clue in the gym. You know those guys. SOMETIMES they have great arms or a great chest. Why does everyone have to get all brainy and technical? Size is not an indicator of knowledge (like they’re some closet Yoda who looks rediculous while working out yet somehow holds the answer). I origianlly posted this as a funny observation, but now it’s been taken as some sort of political platform. Lighten up.
you mean guys who look like this?