I love the “religious types” on this site talking about how they HAVE TO JUDGE because of their christian values …
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
I love the “religious types” on this site talking about how they HAVE TO JUDGE because of their christian values …[/quote]
Obviously we have to judge what is sinful. And you’ll find those kind of judgements all throughout our text, and our traditions.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
I love the “religious types” on this site talking about how they HAVE TO JUDGE because of their christian values …[/quote]
Wow, once again I am impressed with the wealth of knowledge gleamed from this topic.
I see that I can just be STRAIGHT forward and say it like it is. Get it STRAIGHT (pun intended).
You are right, the LDS Church does claim to be organized by Joseph Smith after approaching God in humble prayer to know, which of all the churches he should join. The important thing to remember here is that he does not say he approached God to know how he should start his own church, but he was wondering, which of the churches on the earth he should join.
He said God the father spoke to him and pointing to his Son, Jesus Christ he stated “This is My Beloved Son, Hear Him”. Important to note here that the conversation was between Joseph Smith and Jesus Christ from this point on.
God the father introduced his son, who is the mediator between the father and us. A lot of truths were revealed in this short period of time. Joseph Smith saw the father and the son. We now know that they are two separate and distinct individuals.
They are not one and the same. The son took his rightful place as the mediator for us with the father. And this began the restoration of the gospel to the earth.
I believe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the only Church on the Earth, which teaches the complete gospel of Jesus Christ. Therefore, it is the only true church on the earth. I know this is a bold statement. I don’t expect others to believe as I do. This testimony has come through honest prayer and scripture study.
I know about the three degrees of glory, the sons of perdition, and all the other great points you all have shared on here. Some of them quite well, I might add. So, the only thing I can add is that I know the church is true.
I have had many experiences in my life, that have allowed my testimony to grow to know that it is true. I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I know we have a prophet on the earth today.
I’m sorry for those who did not have the ability to work through their problems and felt that ending their life was easier than dealing with the problems they had. I do not support homosexuality. I have known a few people who suffered from same gender attractions.
They were not happy people. I saw them struggle as they attempted to deal with the teachings of the church and their own personal struggles. I appreciated their efforts, because they struggled. Finally, they did fall away from the church. I still admire them for struggling. I do not accept their lifestyle, but we are still friends.
I don’t look down on them and they do not look down on me. We agree that we do not agree on that topic. We discuss the reasons, but don’t hate each other.
Bottom line is, I know the church is true. I know that I do not support Gay Marriage. I voted in support of Prop 8, and do not excuse myself from doing it. I think there are other ways for homosexuals to attain what they want with out taking away traditional marriage. Domestic Partnerships work just as well.
If you want to be mad at an organization be mad at the Supreme Court for not allowing the Federal Government to recognize Domestic Partnerships. If they did, do you really think we would even be having this conversation right now?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Obviously we have to judge what is sinful. And you’ll find those kind of judgements all throughout our text, and our traditions. [/quote]
Obviously these are Jesus’ exact words.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Obviously we have to judge what is sinful. And you’ll find those kind of judgements all throughout our text, and our traditions.
Obviously these are Jesus’ exact words. [/quote]
Judge, lest ye be not be judged?
Or something like that.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Obviously we have to judge what is sinful. And you’ll find those kind of judgements all throughout our text, and our traditions.
Obviously these are Jesus’ exact words. [/quote]
Did you forget the exact words?
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Obviously we have to judge what is sinful. And you’ll find those kind of judgements all throughout our text, and our traditions.
Obviously these are Jesus’ exact words.
Judge, lest ye be not be judged?
Or something like that.[/quote]
John 7:24, “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye." (Matthew 7:1-5)
Now, who said that gain?
Any you’re talking about Matthew 7:1, and horribly misrepresenting it.
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
The last verse is important. Think on it and get back to me.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye." (Matthew 7:1-5)
Now, who said that gain?[/quote]
Read the last verse…
From what I gather, you’re not really supposed to judge unless you are without sin. I doubt any of you meet that criteria.
I know I don’t.
Hey Makavali, I’m with you on that one brother.
I never thought I’d see a hermeneutics debate on T-Nation.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
From what I gather, you’re not really supposed to judge unless you are without sin. I doubt any of you meet that criteria.
I know I don’t.[/quote]
It means, don’t go preaching against adultery if you’re an adulterer, for example. Don’t be a hypocrite. Christians can and HAVE to jude. Otherwise, the sermon on the mount means nothing.
The prostitute shouldn’t go and sin no more. It isn’t better for a child molester to be cast into the sea with a millstone around his neck…etc.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
It means, don’t go preaching against adultery if you’re an adulterer, for example.[/quote]
How did you come to that conclusion?
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Sloth wrote:
It means, don’t go preaching against adultery if you’re an adulterer, for example.
How did you come to that conclusion?[/quote]
Adultery is an example I used. The message is not to be a hypocrite. Cast out the plank from your own eye first, then cast out the plank in the others. Your reading of it is nonsense. A Christian wouldn’t even be able to judge adultery as a sin, and that’s obviously not the case.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Sloth wrote:
It means, don’t go preaching against adultery if you’re an adulterer, for example.
How did you come to that conclusion?[/quote]
Jesus was speaking to and about the Sadducees and the Pharisees when he said in Matthew 7:1-6:
“Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
The Pharisees and the Sadducees were involved in the same sins that they were judging others for, obviously this what Jesus was calling attention to.
The Bible is a very large book containing 66 separate books. It’s easy to take a passage out of context. The quote of “don’t judge others” is a very common one to take out of context because it acts as a shield to those deep in sin, It helps fend off criticism as some people actually believe that they cannot judge sinful actions.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
I love the “religious types” on this site talking about how they HAVE TO JUDGE because of their christian values …
Obviously we have to judge what is sinful. And you’ll find those kind of judgements all throughout our text, and our traditions. [/quote]
I’m pretty sure Jesus said “Judge not, that ye be not judged.” I don’t see an out clause in his statement, that it is actually ok to judge other people if you consider them to be sinful. Obviously, the woman taken in adultery was sinful by the standards of Jesus, yet he still told his followers not to judge her.