Gunning for Mormons

[Tiribulus]

[quote]Bigd1970 wrote:
<<< Not saying at all that everyone else is wrong. Each person or group has certain aspects of the truth. We just say bring what you have and see if it can not be added to. >>>[/quote]

In the history of the church Smith himself says he is answered by the personages above him in the grove of woods in 1820, who are reported as being God the father and his son Jesus Christ, in response to his question about which church to join, "

“I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were all corrupt”

I’m not beating you up, but at least acknowledge your prophets own words. Every religion believes theirs is the only one that’s correct no matter what they try to say.

Beliefs about absolutes should be believed absolutely or not at all.

BTW, it’s been a while, but at one time I doubt if Bruce McConkie knew more about LDS beliefs than I did.

That quote above is from memory and I believe it’s pretty close if not verbatim.

[Tiribulus]

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Bigd1970 wrote:
Great, than we can save seats for each other in Hell. I like the window. Except there is so little leg room. HMMM! Choices. I guess I’ll take the isle seat. At least then I can watch the stewardess walk down the isle. See you there.

Except…there’s no hell in Mormon theology per say…[/quote]

Only for sons of perdition and they can only be those who have directly attacked the LDS church. Adolph Hitler will be in one of the lower levels of heaven.

[forlife]

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
The biggest problem in your logic is that you are stating because someone believes in something out of normal about marriage, that invalidates their opinion on the subject for everything else out of the ordinary for marriage.
[/quote]

I didn’t say it invalidated their opinion, I said it made them hypocrites.

[forlife]

[quote]pushharder wrote:
You beat me to it. I could easily make the point that polygamy is traditional maybe even more so than monogamy.[/quote]

I suspect most of the fundamentalists in this thread would disagree, but they also conveniently forget the rampant polygamy of the old testament.

[forlife]

[quote]Bigd1970 wrote:
You may have what you consider to be very good reasons for believing that the Mormon Church is based on fairy tales[/quote]

As a matter of fact, I do. Thanks for recognizing that rather than accusing me of leaving the LDS church because of my sexual orientation.

yet it does not change the fact that you once believed it to be true, let alone the fact that you seem to have some knowledge of the LDS beliefs. My answer is still the same, we are all held accountable for the knowledge we obtain here.

Believing something to be true doesn’t make it so. There are people scattered throughout a host of contradictory religions, yet all are adamant about the correctness of their particular beliefs. Logically, it is impossible for all of them to be right, and further it is possible that none of them are right.

If you have questions please PM me, I don’t think it appropriate to go into a lot about the Mormon Church here in this blog.

If you really want to get into it, I’m more than happy to do so. I don’t believe in trying to persuade people away from their religious beliefs though, not because I think they wouldn’t be better off, but because doing so is futile unless the desire to know the truth comes from within.

I spent a significant amount of time investigating the claims of the Mormon church, documenting the best arguments I could find for and against my concerns. After a sincere study of the facts, I concluded that my beliefs were incorrect. They were informed by emotions rather than facts. Ironically, seeking the truth set me free from the same church that encouraged me to seek the truth in the first place.

[forlife]

[quote]Bigd1970 wrote:
I can’t change what the church has done in the past.[/quote]

I don’t think anyone is asking you to change what the LDS church has done in the past. The point is that given the historical facts, if Joseph Smith really was a fraud, that bears on the authenticity of the church’s authority and doctrines.

I know what forlife is going to say he is going to argue that the church is not accepting of Gays. This is not true. I said acceptance of all of God’s Children. The church teaches acceptance, not hatred. I can accept another person and even love another person with out accepting or agreeing with the actions of that person.

The LDS church’s stance on gays is not even in my top 20 concerns when it comes to determining the correctness of their beliefs.

That said, it is a smokescreen to claim you love gays while forcing them into a mixed orientation marriage or a lifetime of loneliness and celibacy. Most Mormons are clueless when it comes to understanding how insidious and damaging their beliefs can be to gays. Their plan of happiness is completely driven by a heterosexual model. Sadly, many gay Mormons have committed suicide from their inability to reconcile their religious beliefs with their sexual orientation.

Maybe that price would be worth paying if Mormons really had a stranglehold on absolute truth. However, I don’t believe they do, and I think the damage done to their gay members is unnwarranted and unnecessary.

[Gambit_Lost]

[quote]forlife wrote:
Bigd1970 wrote:
I can’t change what the church has done in the past.

I don’t think anyone is asking you to change what the LDS church has done in the past. The point is that given the historical facts, if Joseph Smith really was a fraud, that bears on the authenticity of the church’s authority and doctrines.

I know what forlife is going to say he is going to argue that the church is not accepting of Gays. This is not true. I said acceptance of all of God’s Children. The church teaches acceptance, not hatred. I can accept another person and even love another person with out accepting or agreeing with the actions of that person.

The LDS church’s stance on gays is not even in my top 20 concerns when it comes to determining the correctness of their beliefs.

That said, it is a smokescreen to claim you love gays while forcing them into a mixed orientation marriage or a lifetime of loneliness and celibacy. Most Mormons are clueless when it comes to understanding how insidious and damaging their beliefs can be to gays. Their plan of happiness is completely driven by a heterosexual model. Sadly, many gay Mormons have committed suicide from their inability to reconcile their religious beliefs with their sexual orientation.

Maybe that price would be worth paying if Mormons really had a stranglehold on absolute truth. However, I don’t believe they do, and I think the damage done to their gay members is unnwarranted and unnecessary.
[/quote]

I’d go so far as “sinful.”

[Sloth]

[quote]forlife wrote:
Bigd1970 wrote:
I can’t change what the church has done in the past.

I don’t think anyone is asking you to change what the LDS church has done in the past. The point is that given the historical facts, if Joseph Smith really was a fraud, that bears on the authenticity of the church’s authority and doctrines.

I know what forlife is going to say he is going to argue that the church is not accepting of Gays. This is not true. I said acceptance of all of God’s Children. The church teaches acceptance, not hatred. I can accept another person and even love another person with out accepting or agreeing with the actions of that person.

The LDS church’s stance on gays is not even in my top 20 concerns when it comes to determining the correctness of their beliefs.

That said, it is a smokescreen to claim you love gays while forcing them into a mixed orientation marriage or a lifetime of loneliness and celibacy. Most Mormons are clueless when it comes to understanding how insidious and damaging their beliefs can be to gays. Their plan of happiness is completely driven by a heterosexual model. Sadly, many gay Mormons have committed suicide from their inability to reconcile their religious beliefs with their sexual orientation.

Maybe that price would be worth paying if Mormons really had a stranglehold on absolute truth. However, I don’t believe they do, and I think the damage done to their gay members is unnwarranted and unnecessary.
[/quote]

Aww. Are they not accepting of homosexuality, bisexuality, bestiality, fecalphilia, and other perversions? Heart-breaking.

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Bigd1970 wrote:
<<< Not saying at all that everyone else is wrong. Each person or group has certain aspects of the truth. We just say bring what you have and see if it can not be added to. >>>

In the history of the church Smith himself says he is answered by the personages above him in the grove of woods in 1820, who are reported as being God the father and his son Jesus Christ, in response to his question about which church to join, "

“I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were all corrupt”

I’m not beating you up, but at least acknowledge your prophets own words. Every religion believes theirs is the only one that’s correct no matter what they try to say.

Beliefs about absolutes should be believed absolutely or not at all.

BTW, it’s been a while, but at one time I doubt if Bruce McConkie knew more about LDS beliefs than I did.

That quote above is from memory and I believe it’s pretty close if not verbatim.[/quote]

The book of Mormon addresses over and over again that there are only 2 churches, the true church of God (presumably theirs), and the church of the devil.

[Sloth]

[quote]forlife wrote:
Bigd1970 wrote:
I can’t change what the church has done in the past.

I don’t think anyone is asking you to change what the LDS church has done in the past. The point is that given the historical facts, if Joseph Smith really was a fraud, that bears on the authenticity of the church’s authority and doctrines.

I know what forlife is going to say he is going to argue that the church is not accepting of Gays. This is not true. I said acceptance of all of God’s Children. The church teaches acceptance, not hatred. I can accept another person and even love another person with out accepting or agreeing with the actions of that person.

The LDS church’s stance on gays is not even in my top 20 concerns when it comes to determining the correctness of their beliefs.

That said, it is a smokescreen to claim you love gays while forcing them into a mixed orientation marriage or a lifetime of loneliness and celibacy. Most Mormons are clueless when it comes to understanding how insidious and damaging their beliefs can be to gays. Their plan of happiness is completely driven by a heterosexual model. Sadly, many gay Mormons have committed suicide from their inability to reconcile their religious beliefs with their sexual orientation.

Maybe that price would be worth paying if Mormons really had a stranglehold on absolute truth. However, I don’t believe they do, and I think the damage done to their gay members is unnwarranted and unnecessary.
[/quote]

Maybe they’re orientated to accept their beliefs. Try to be ‘tolerant.’

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Bigd1970 wrote:
Great, than we can save seats for each other in Hell. I like the window. Except there is so little leg room. HMMM! Choices. I guess I’ll take the isle seat. At least then I can watch the stewardess walk down the isle. See you there.

Except…there’s no hell in Mormon theology per say…

Only for sons of perdition and they can only be those who have directly attacked the LDS church. Adolph Hitler will be in one of the lower levels of heaven.[/quote]

Yes, if/when he finally accepts the truth he will be in the terrestrial realm and accompanied by the holy spirit, but not the father or son. (also from memory so don’t flame me if I left something out)

[Loose_Tool]

[quote]Bigd1970 wrote:
It is an interesting article. Not the first time however, that it has been brought to my attention that Brigham Young did something, or said something that I don’t necessarily agree with. [/quote]

The Negro Doctrine of the church was not just based on something Brigham Young said. It was god’s will. From the First Presidency (Hugh B. Brown & N. Eldon Tanner) to General Authorities, Regional Representatives of the Twelve, Stake Presidents, Mission Presidents, and Bishops in December 1969:

[i]"Our living prophet, President David O. McKay, has said, "The seeming discrimination by the Church toward the Negro is not something which originated with man; but goes back into the beginning with God…

“Revelation assures us that this plan antedates man’s mortal existence, extending back to man’s pre-existent state.”

President McKay has also said, “Sometime in God’s eternal plan, the Negro will be given the right to hold the priesthood.”

Until God reveals His will in this matter, to him whom we sustain as a prophet, we are bound by that same will. Priesthood, when it is conferred on any man comes as a blessing from God, not of men.

We feel nothing but love, compassion, and the deepest appreciation for the rich talents, endowments, and the earnest strivings of our Negro brothers and sisters. We are eager to share with men of all races the blessings of the Gospel. We have no racially-segregated congregations.

Were we the leaders of an enterprise created by ourselves and operated only according to our own earthly wisdom, it would be a simple thing to act according to popular will. But we believe that this work is directed by God and that the conferring of the priesthood must await His revelation. To do otherwise would be to deny the very premise on which the Church is established.[/i]

http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org/neither/neitherappx.htm#Appendix

Long after blacks were granted equal rights under the Constitution to an inter-racial marriage, the church continued to deny them the right to an inter-racial marriage in the church. So, what’s the connection between priesthood and marriage?

[forlife]

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Aww. Are they not accepting of homosexuality, bisexuality, bestiality, fecalphilia, and other perversions? Heart-breaking.[/quote]

I don’t know many people that commit suicide over bestiality, fecalphilia, and “other perversions”. Your warm empathy says a lot about you.

[Sloth]

[quote]forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Aww. Are they not accepting of homosexuality, bisexuality, bestiality, fecalphilia, and other perversions? Heart-breaking.

I don’t know many people that commit suicide over bestiality, fecalphilia, and “other perversions”. Your warm empathy says a lot about you.
[/quote]

I’m not afraid to call disgusting behavior for what it is.

[forlife]

[quote]Sloth wrote:
I’m not afraid to call disgusting behavior for what it is.[/quote]

I find straight sex disgusting, but I’m not judging you for it.

Tuna anyone?

[apbt55]

[quote]forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m not afraid to call disgusting behavior for what it is.

I find straight sex disgusting, but I’m not judging you for it.

Tuna anyone?
[/quote]

really I thought you’d be a meat man.

sorry thought I would try a little humor too.

[Sloth]

[quote]forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m not afraid to call disgusting behavior for what it is.

I find straight sex disgusting, but I’m not judging you for it.

Tuna anyone?
[/quote]

That’s fine, but I do judge lifestyle.

[clip11]

[quote]forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m not afraid to call disgusting behavior for what it is.

I find straight sex disgusting, but I’m not judging you for it.

Tuna anyone?
[/quote]

Didnt you make two kids, you didnt find it disgusting when you was humping that woman.