I didn’t start this thread.
Despite your accusations, I haven’t constantly whined about how sad I am that Proposition 8 lost in California. Prove it or shut the hell up.
This is the first thread I’ve seen that discusses the role of Mormons in opposing gay marriage on the basis of defending “traditional marriage”.
I have been discussing the hypocrisy of that stance, which I find personally interesting given my own Mormon background.
Got it yet?
[quote]forlife wrote:
I didn’t start this thread.
Despite your accusations, I haven’t constantly whined about how sad I am that Proposition 8 lost in California. Prove it or shut the hell up.
This is the first thread I’ve seen that discusses the role of Mormons in opposing gay marriage on the basis of defending “traditional marriage”.
I have been discussing the hypocrisy of that stance, which I find personally interesting given my own Mormon background.
Got it yet?[/quote]
First in the grand scheme of things, polygamy is probably more traditional than 1 woman + 1 man.
If you even really look at it, even in polygamy you can think of it in terms of 1 woman + 1 man defining marriage. They are all separate relationships with separate ceremonies. If they view it this way, there is no inherent conflict.
The biggest problem in your logic is that you are stating because someone believes in something out of normal about marriage, that invalidates their opinion on the subject for everything else out of the ordinary for marriage.
Say I believe some strange thing about calf training (I can even be dead wrong), does that mean that I don’t know anything about arm training?
Even if someone is hypocritical over an expanse of time, it doesn’t inherently make them wrong. The Bill of Rights was written by slave owners, so should we toss them out?
[quote]forlife wrote:
I didn’t start this thread.[/quote]
So? That hasn’t stopped you from taking over any other thread dealing with homosexuality, has it?
All one needs to do is read your post history over the last 2 weeks. That’s all the proof that is needed.
And the relevance would be? Oh - the Mormons are the big money behind you and your gay friends getting spanked at the polls.
[quote]I have been discussing the hypocrisy of that stance, which I find personally interesting given my own Mormon background.
Got it yet?[/quote]
Had the election gone the other way, you would not be discussing this subject.
You are a whiner. That’s all you have done since you have been a member here, and started posting exclusively threads discussing homosexuality.
Actions speak much louder than words. That is all I need to “get”.
[quote]forlife wrote:
I know, makes me laugh when Mormons lead the charge on protecting “traditional marriage” despite having a history of believing in and practicing polygamy. The only reason they abandoned polygamy was to avoid war with the United States, and even now they continue to believe in polygamy after a person dies.[/quote]
He is actually correct here and I don’t see anything about gay marriage in this particular post.
Their first prophet Joseph Smith had a revelation directly from god the father, according to him, commanding “plural marriage” which happened to come right after his first wife found out about his “holy solicitaions”, only to have god change his mind when the US government threatened the church hierarchy.
They also as late as the eighties denied temple marriage to blacks which is necessary for exaltation which in turn means becoming a god in the next life and fathering as many spirit children as you can that then wait for bodies provided by mormons on the planet they are the now the god of and so on. This is called eternal progression.
Temple marriage is the crowning sacrament of mormonism. Whatever all that is, it is not Christianity. If anybody ever wants to read an absolutely fascinating book, seriously, read “No Man Knows My History” by Fawn Brody. Whatever else may be said about Joseph Smith, he had personal charisma that makes Barack Obama look like a fire hydrant.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
If you even really look at it, even in polygamy you can think of it in terms of 1 woman + 1 man defining marriage. They are all separate relationships with separate ceremonies. If they view it this way, there is no inherent conflict…
You beat me to it. I could easily make the point that polygamy is traditional maybe even more so than monogamy.[/quote]
Now just replace traditional with natural and you’re all set.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Makavali wrote:
pushharder wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
If you even really look at it, even in polygamy you can think of it in terms of 1 woman + 1 man defining marriage. They are all separate relationships with separate ceremonies. If they view it this way, there is no inherent conflict…
You beat me to it. I could easily make the point that polygamy is traditional maybe even more so than monogamy.
Now just replace traditional with natural and you’re all set.
I’m a long, long ways from a polygamous marriage.[/quote]
I wasn’t implying that at all push, but more referencing the fact that it is all too likely that one male was getting his freak on with all the females form a particular tribe back in our cave man days.
Look at the animal kingdom even today and you see it. Given our natural tendencies… I personally think it’s how we’re wired.
I keep telling you that I’m not dodging your point.
You may have what you consider to be very good reasons for believing that the Mormon Church is based on fairy tales, yet it does not change the fact that you once believed it to be true, let alone the fact that you seem to have some knowledge of the LDS beliefs. My answer is still the same, we are all held accountable for the knowledge we obtain here.
If we decide to turn away from that knowledge, it does not mean it does not exist. It simply means that we have decided not to abide by that knowledge. We are still accountable for it. We may try to tell ourselves that it is just one big fairy tale, so that we can excuse ourselves, but you and I both know, it does not make the truth go away.
If you have questions please PM me, I don’t think it appropriate to go into a lot about the Mormon Church here in this blog. It does not seem appropriate, and I’m sure at some pint you all are going to get tired of hearing about the LDS Church. So, if you are really interested in answers to these questions please PM me. I will try to answer the questions you have. I’m not trying to convince anyone, just think the misconceptions should be addressed.
[quote]Bigd1970 wrote:
stuff[/quote]
Who was this post meant to be for?
Sorry mostly forlife.
But if anyone has questions feel free to PM.
[quote]Bigd1970 wrote:
Sorry mostly forlife.
But if anyone has questions feel free to PM.[/quote]
Don’t apologize, I was just asking.
[quote]Bigd1970 wrote:
We may try to tell ourselves that it is just one big fairy tale, so that we can excuse ourselves, but you and I both know, it does not make the truth go away.
[/quote]
So the Mormons know the “truth” and everybody else has it “wrong”?
Still on the topic of “traditional marriage” and Mormons, how did the church view inter-racial marriage prior to 1978 (the year that God changed his mind about “negroes”)?
http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org/neither/neither6.htm#Chapter6
Don’t both with the PM, I don’t subscribe to the “dirty laundry” doctrine. I believe that sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Ok, It is a bold statement when someone says they know it all. It is no secret that the Church says that they have a restoration of the truth. Not saying at all that everyone else is wrong. Each person or group has certain aspects of the truth. We just say bring what you have and see if it can not be added to.
Not going to deny the history of the church. If you are looking for me to hide and say something, or try to justify what happened in the past, not going to see it happen. I don’t claim to have the answers to everything. Just said I would attempt to answer the questions. I don’t know why the church denied other races, specifically Blacks, the priesthood prior to 1978.
It is an interesting article. Not the first time however, that it has been brought to my attention that Brigham Young did something, or said something that I don’t necessarily agree with. Do you think I’m going to just throw my hands up and walk away now? The facts are out there. Does this somehow Discredit the gospel of Jesus Christ? Like I said earlier, the truth is out there, only God knows why things happen. We are held accountable for the knowledge we obtain. We can try to justify things, but it does not change the truth, nor does it make the truth go away.
I know how I feel about people. I do not look at a person based on the color of their skin, but the content of their character. Sound familiar? It is true. I know where I learned this, it was from the teachings I recieved from my parents, and while attending the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I know what I have been taught while attending this church and it is an acceptance of all of God’s children. I can’t change what the church has done in the past. What I can change is how I treat other people. It does not matter what color your skin is. There are good people everywhere, there are also bad people everywhere.
I know what forlife is going to say he is going to argue that the church is not accepting of Gays. This is not true. I said acceptance of all of God’s Children. The church teaches acceptance, not hatred. I can accept another person and even love another person with out accepting or agreeing with the actions of that person.
I don’t mind sharing my beliefs with others. Sunlight is the perfect disinfectant.
[quote]Bigd1970 wrote:
I know how I feel about people. I do not look at a person based on the color of their skin, but the content of their character. Sound familiar? It is true. I know where I learned this, it was from the teachings I recieved from my parents, and while attending the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I know what I have been taught while attending this church and it is an acceptance of all of God’s children. I can’t change what the church has done in the past. What I can change is how I treat other people. It does not matter what color your skin is. There are good people everywhere, there are also bad people everywhere. [/quote]
Good call. But we can’t let some of those “good people” get married in the state over now, can we?
[quote]
I know what forlife is going to say he is going to argue that the church is not accepting of Gays. This is not true. I said acceptance of all of God’s Children. The church teaches acceptance, not hatred. I can accept another person and even love another person with out accepting or agreeing with the actions of that person. [/quote]
I’ll accept you as long as you aren’t who you are too…or at least so long as you don’t act on it. I can love and accept Mormons… but I cannot accept or agree with their actions of late.
[quote]
I don’t mind sharing my beliefs with others. Sunlight is the perfect disinfectant. [/quote]
Indeed.
No, we can not. As I said earlier, I can accept the person, with out accepting their actions. Homosexuality is a sin, In the words of the Mayor of San Francisco “Wether you like it or not”. Don’t try to change “traditional marriage” to get society to accept your sin.
[quote]Bigd1970 wrote:
No, we can not. As I said earlier, I can accept the person, with out accepting their actions. Homosexuality is a sin, In the words of the Mayor of San Francisco “Wether you like it or not”. Don’t try to change “traditional marriage” to get society to accept your sin.[/quote]
As I said earlier, I can accept Mormons without accepting their actions. What they did was a sin. And they shouldn’t try to maintain the prejudices and ignorance of society, especially not at the expense of loving relationships, simply to accept your sin.
Great, than we can save seats for each other in Hell. I like the window. Except there is so little leg room. HMMM! Choices. I guess I’ll take the isle seat. At least then I can watch the stewardess walk down the isle. See you there.