Gun Policy in the USA

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
1595

I’ve learned my lesson and picked up on the tells here. Now I just give the ol’ “oh yeah I don’t have a strong opinion so I’ll see myself out” move when this topic comes up. I’ve even gotten pretty adept at hearing silly things stated as indisputable fact and forgetting it was said seconds later. Easier that way.

I’d say the most reasonable and well thought debate I’ve had has been on the availability of “assault rifles”. To my friends credit, he didn’t try to use guilt or silly falsities to make his points. We didn’t see eye to eye, but there was a middle ground to stand on. I suppose that’s what best friend types are for, and anonymous meatheads for other times.

I’ve wondered about what a reference requirement prior to a firearms purchase could be like. We often give references for jobs, living situations, college admissions, etc. Maybe we skip it for Tommy’s First .22 or a .410 break action bird gun, maybe not. I’m confident it wouldn’t be a perfect solution, in fact it might get ignored completely since it’d be a pain in the ass for retailers and people will lie for the friends for basically anything.

I get where you’re coming from. I’d say one can feel that solutions need to be implemented, while also questioning what has happened to us that we need these solutions in the first place. No need for them to exist in vacuums.

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1596

Did you know 10-15% % of Americans use benzodiazepines regularly

In Australia the statistic is similar IF you are over the age of 65. Otherwise the statistic is below 5% for general population.

Benzodiazepines have caused huge problems in America since the 1950s. I can’t for the life of me understand why there isn’t more coverage of almost 1/6th of the population being potentially dependent on a drug for which regular use encompasses withdrawls so bad you can actually die from said withdrawls…

Before benzos barbituates were problematic, but they were known to be addictive and therefore weren’t handed out willy nilly.

When I was overseas with American students I was SHOCKED to see how many had a prescription for alazopram, or diazepam, ativan etc

Of all of those I met who had a script… (i’m no doctor) it seemed only one of them actually needed it (guy with a severe panic disorder who took them as a last resort).

Benzos short circuit short term memory and lower inhibitions. They’re just as bad as alcohol in the manner by which many seem to commit crimes and/or engage in inappropriate behaviour under the influence of them.

Also… if someone has a panic/anxiety/depressive disorder that is bad enough to require benzodiazepines… probably shouldn’t own a gun

I know benzodiazepines can be prescribed for insomnia. I’ve been prescribed them for insomnia… but for 4 days max at a time… I can’t believe they’re handed out for long term use on a whims notice in the states

In Aus… if a doctor did that without serious justification (say patient is so anxious he/she can’t leave the house) they’d lose their medical license!

In America… from what I can see it’s fine to give someone a script for xanax with repeats for minor anxiety.

That makes me wonder… what else is handed out for no reason in the US? Benzos are serious meds

I do know the states are very strict (too strict) with pain meds now and that has led to many suffering needlessly… but for some reason USA has turned a blind eye to benzos, heavy duty psych meds, amphetamines etc (many of these meds are prone to abuse).

Give some of these meds to the wrong person and you could feasibly trigger psychosis.

Especially with amphetamines, and you have call in clinics for the USA identical to the pill mills that used to exist for opiates that prescribe amphetamines.

I’ve been looking into how meds are dished out in the USA and i’m actually shocked

I don’t think any other country in the WORLD does what America does. America also advertises medications to the masses on TV…

It’s a catch-22… many of these pharmacuetical corporations are actually creating medications to treat conditions that need treating. Some corporations specialise in synthesising meds to treat rare diseases

But there’s also way too much money in patenting and releasing brand name meds, and in the STATES there’s too much money in lobbying and encouraging doctors to prescribe certain meds.

Take the money out of patenting brand name meds (over releasing generic medications) and I think you’d probably solve a lot of the issues you see with over prescribing

Look at the cost of say… generic cialis vs brand name cialis

Then look up how often generic scripts are filled vs brand name. Lot of overprescribing because pharmaceutical representatives incentivise doctors to prescribe certain meds in the USA

It’s an extremely unethical practice that is a byproduct of corporate greed.

The same analogy can be said for gun culture/control. Follow the money

If the NRA didn’t exist you’d probably find SOME degree of gun control would be present in every state.

I’d also be in favour of increasing penalties for firearm related offences. Particuarly possession of an unlicensed weapon, or misconduct with a registered firearm (should be grounds to have your license/ability to own a gun taken away).

Owning a gun should be a privilege given to generally law abaiding citizens (within reason… a traffic ticket obviously isn’t grounds to have your gun taken away).

But if you are a dangerous individual, or a delinquent, or mentally ill (and not stable)… that priviledge can and should be taken away.

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1597

  1. Restricting magazine capacity so there is a higher chance of a shooter having to reload and being stopped by civilians. The more chances civilians have to stop a shooter, the better.

  2. Harsher penalties on illegal guns. A joke in NYC (where I grew up) is that legal guns are hard to get, but illegal weapons are everywhere. I don’t want to specificy a penalty here, but it should be harsh enough to make criminals hesistant about ever laying a finger on an illegal firearm.

Those are the two I can think of at the moment. Truthfully, I feel safer in a place like Ohio or Maine where crime is lower but more law-abiding people have guns versus a place like NYC where criminals and crazy people have weapons but good folk are unarmed.

1598

Both constitutional carry states as well.

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1599

Short responses:

1- The idea that citizens are going to bum rush the mass shooter when he pauses to reload is mostly hollywood fairytale nonsense. The vast majority of mass murders are stopped by guns in the hands of law enforcement, and sometimes civilians. There are a few cases of people rushing the shooter, but just as often that’s when their gun jammed, not because they had to reload. Reloads can be very fast, regardless of capacity.

2- Tell that to your local prosecutor. These laws are already on the books, pretty much every where, but almost never prosecuted. At least not on violent felons. If you are a decent, law abiding citizen who makes an innocent mistake while exercising your right to self defense they will gleefully ruin your life.

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1600

I’ve been on 1mg of clonazepam (generic of Klonopoin) for years now (diagnosed with bad anxiety), and while it certainly has been a lifesaver, there have been a few instances where my doctor’s office dropped the ball in calling in a new prescription (controlled substances have to be renewed every 30 days) and I feel extremely weird. Thoughts racing, can’t sit still, cannot for the life of me fall asleep, etc. I don’t have “withdrawals” per se because I take it as prescribed, but even missing one dose can send me into a tailspin of uncomfortable symptoms.

1601

“One cannot legislate the maniacs off the street … these maniacs can only be shut down by an armed citizenry. Indeed bad things can happen in nations where the citizenry is armed, but not as bad as those which seem to be threatening our disarmed citizenry in this country at this time.”

Jeff Cooper.

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1602

What borough? I lived in Queens from birth until 37 years old.

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1603

The magazine capacity thing starts to fall apart pretty quickly. As it’s been pointed out, it doesn’t take much time to reload a gun. Also, is someone planning on committing mass murder going to observe capacity limit laws? I would think they’d ignore that little bit of legislation as well.

If we’re hoping a good guy with a gun is stepping up to stop the threat, well we’ve just arbitrarily handicapped that individual that was already at a disadvantage.

The brief breaks between reloads might give the unarmed hero who’s going full Leroy Jenkins at the shooter another couple steps. But that person was probably going to bum rush the shooter anyway because that’s what their survival instinct and iron clad balls told them to do.

Then the question becomes, what is the correct number of rounds a magazine can hold? When a shooting occurs, how many do we drop that number by? Do we eventually decide single shot firearms are the only ones that should be allowed? And again, who is most likely to observe or break these rules?

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1604

I recently met a woman that was on them. I thought she was high on opiates (she seemed really out of it). I was told she was on benzos that she did have a Rx for. I’ve probably encountered people on them in the past, but just didn’t know what they were on. I was surprised by how messed up she was from them. I wouldn’t expect that from opiate pills unless abused (not taken as prescribed, either a lot more, or consumed differently perhaps sniffed, smoked or injected).

1605

Of course I don’t think guards are bad if they’re protecting children. I’m just saying, doesn’t it seem weird that in America, children must now be guarded in order to receive an education safely, when that used to not be a concern? Wouldn’t everyone with a child, if given this choice, choose A?

A: Your child can go to school as American children have always gone to school and have no fear of losing their life.

B: Your child should be guarded while at school. There’s no guaranteeing they’ll come home alive otherwise.

I had zero intention of implying that children were less valuable or deserving of safety than politicians and banks.

I find it hard to believe that video games matter as much as some people like to say. I listen to to music that talks about dealing drugs and killing people, and have never been tempted to go on a rampage. Eminem has a line about raping his mom and surprisingly, no one I know who likes his music has raped their moms. If you’re going to be influenced to kill someone by playing a game or hearing a song then you were probably already a psycho who was going to pursue those fantasies sooner or later.

Thanks, @mr.v3lv3t. @Uncle_Gabby - didn’t mean to get you worked up, and I’m sorry if I led you to believe that I consider the safety of children to be a bad thing.

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1606

I’ve spoken to family members who are teachers about what they would do, and I’ve given it some thought myself since I will most likely become a teacher someday. If you were thinking of your own son, how much training would you want his teachers to go through for you to feel comfortable? Obviously no one’s going to become a SEAL overnight but how much training does it take to get to a point where you might be semi-competent in a situation that called for it?

1607

Yes it is weird. LEO’s in schools are now needed, but they are a bandaid for symptoms of huge problems.

Below: School in my town to which my children are obviously zoned. Pathetic. I don’t know how long we will be homeschooling but they likely won’t be going there when they are high-school ages.

1608

Yikes.

I went to a small, private Christian school that was located very close to my town’s public high school. (I live in a very gun happy state.) Every so often we’d get shut down because there was a gun threat at the public school. There were a couple weirdos at my school who the kids would say, “If we have a school shooter it’ll be so-and-so for sure” but never had the issue actually present itself any closer than at the adjacent school.

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1609

Below: Story about my high school I graduated from in 1997. I spent a lot of time on that corner shown below in the 90’s and it is the bus stop I used to get home. An occasional fist fight there or nearby? Sure. Shootings? Never.

The school now has LEO’s working around it. Why were they unneeded back then?

Another gun story about my high school:

Another story:

1610

Thats pretty much my point

a psycho in his mothers basement with no discipline playing video games…finally gets bored and snaps and wants to feel the real deal by killing real people

1611

True. Hardly anyone goes out and murders and rapes because of the influence of music, but I believe people severely underestimate how influential music is on impressionable young people. I have seen music actually transform people, particularly teenagers in their speech, fashion, ideas, and dress.

I grew up with some kids whose dialect drastically changed after listening to rap music. Words (particularly liberal use of the N word for damn near everyone), tones, mannerisms (including their gaits and facial expressions), and inflection were adopted which they otherwise were not even exposed to by anyone around them, pretty much going from sedate and polite to raging and annoying jerkoffs. Much of that big-man buffoonery is meant to intimidate and posture to those around oneself.

Speaking of guns, I remember in 92 or 93, the video for “Throw Ya Guns in the Air” by Onyx premiered on MTV. The next day some kids were saying the lyrics while making gun signs with their hands. They seemed to be ecstatic. I don’t wonder at all why there no are so many weird kids around.

1612

Some towns in my state required references as part of the permit application. It was ruled unconstitutional (state) by the state court.

1613

Look at the dumb things, illegal things even, kids do because of tik tok.

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1614

That’s really not surprising to me. I had a feeling constitutionality would be a concern with that idea. Like I said, not a perfect solution by any means.