The more I learn about the Russia stuff as it pertains to us, the more they seem to be bi-partisan shit stirrers.
They are less interested in who is ruling and more interested in dividing the society against each other as that lowers the power a controlling party has no matter which party it is.
I listened to an interview of one the guys in the Congressional Homeland Security office. And he was describing how they watched in real time as Russian troll-bots went to work after the massacre. They were sending pro-NRA, pro gun shit to victims anti-gun activists and so-on down the line. Likewise they sent anti-gun propaganda to loads of pro-gun citizens in order to raise the noise level and get people at each other’s throat.
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Ya, it’s definitely the guns…
https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/d738fee2-a0e3-3d2c-846c-a81d8033eb24/ss_pair-get-prison-for-dragging.html
Jesus…
On the one hand I totally understand why the gun control crowd would want to stop shitheads like these from getting a gun. On the other, shitheads like these are the reason I carry a gun.
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Should be interesting to see how the vote shakes out in a Republican dominated state, especially given the law in its current state raises the buying age to 21 for non handguns.
Question popped up in my head from this part.
Sheriffs who choose to set up a so-called “school marshal” program would have to ensure that any teacher or other school staff member who opts to become one has a valid license and has completed 132 hours of shooting and safety training.
The bill says that “a school marshal has no authority to act in any law enforcement capacity except to the extent necessary to prevent or abate an active assailant incident on a school premises.”
Hypothetically, let’s say one of these school marshal’s heads out to stop an active gunman. In doing so, he/she accidentally murders a student (that ISN’T the shooter and isn’t tied to said shooter in any way). What happens to this teacher legally speaking?
The school shooter would catch the murder charge, not the teacher.
Let’s alter it. Let’s say there is no school shooter, but there’s fear/craze of one. Rambo teacher walks into the hallways on the hunt, accidentally murders a student. Let’s say the kid even has a knife in his hand, yet is 20 feet away near no other students.
You need to stop watching so many movies dude.
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Posted an extreme hypothetical to avoid more minutia back and forth.
Interestingly enough, I’ve never watched any of the Rambo movies except for the most recent one (which kinda sucked tbh). The genre never really appealed to me
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Why is a kid walking around with a knife?
Anyway, the law is the law, even in a school.
And that’s what I’m asking. LEOs are given a pretty wide berth re: killing someone compared to non LEOs. They’re trained for it, practice it consistently, live it as their jobs on a day to day basis. Because of this, society gives them the benefit of the doubt.
In most (all?) states, it virtually all rests on whether or not the LEO felt his life was threatened at the time (edit: and usually some level of credence to being able to support it with evidence). Because they live that life we give them the benefit of the doubt. Often times they’re correct, and that’s great. In times they aren’t, they’re still almost never jailed (sometimes never even fired), as we give them that benefit of the doubt.
I’m asking if we’re now going to give teachers that benefit of the doubt? I’m asking what happens when someone pranks a school because they’re trying to bait teachers into taking a pot shot at a student on accident and it works?
If an armed teacher shoots someone the answer is pretty obvious - arm the students so that they can defend themselves.
Duh.
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Libertarianismception.
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This can’t happen.
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Teachers would need to take the same use of force training that LEs take. Shooting an individual with a knife in hand who is not within striking distance of anyone is not acceptable for LEs, even if they are dispatched to a stabbing at that location.
If I am dispatched to a domestic and I make entry and see blood on the floor, then an individual laying in a bloody mess and a person with a knife is 10 feet away now and not actively attacking, I have to challenge that person and tell them to put their weapon down and cuff them, not put them down. They may have just committed murder but I am not allowed to shoot. If I arrived and they had a gun to someone’s head, pulled the trigger and then immediately dropped the gun and put their hands up, I am not supposed to open fire. Granted, in a situation like that we may be talking about milliseconds and they may still get shot, but if I am able to reasonably process them dropping the gun and putting their hands up - say for instance my weapon was still holstered when they pulled the trigger - I am not justified in shooting them.
If you make it clear to the teachers that their liberty is at stake if any shooting or discharge of a weapon is not justified, I don’t think you’ll see “accidental” shootings or trigger happy teachers. Now, if a knife wielding student wants to charge a group of students or said teacher… articulate that you acted in self defense/defense of others.
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This advice is better suited to the 2A fetishists, who think we live in the prequel to Red Dawn.
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Tbh, I don’t think that’s possible. LEOs not only have training (not to mention many having prior military exp), but they live that life 40+ hours a week for years on end. Teachers would be lucky (you know what I mean) to be required to have one active situation in their lives.
To the training aspect, if the vast majority of LEOs took the academy test every few years and never step foot out of the precinct would we still give them the benefit of the doubt?
That’s what I was asking in my quote above. “a school marshal has no authority to act in any law enforcement capacity except to the extent necessary to prevent or abate…”
There have been shootings by police officers whom felt at danger in their situations, and accidentally killed an unarmed person (ala, cellphone, waistband reach, etc). The majority of them still never see the inside of a jail cell. I’m asking if we’re (the law, society, etc) going to extend that same benefit of the doubt to a group of people who so very clearly have not earned it.
There are already laws that address this. Here’s the thing. Right now protocol for a teacher is to lock the door and stay with the students. You don’t open the door for anyone. I don’t think a teacher with a gun will be expected to leave that room as it would mean leaving the kids alone. If a teacher is not in a room with kids for some reason, prep period, lunch, and decides to go and confront the gunman then he or she has chosen to accept all of the risks associated with that action.
What makes you think that cops get more benefit of the doubt?
What makes you think cops get away with shooting people under dubious circumstances? Cops do go to jail.
I didn’t say dubious circumstances
Rookie cops with no experience are still expecting to respond to hostile situations if dispatched. I am military and LE and the truth is that they come to our unit with only theoretical, classroom knowledge, some range time and some simulator time and we arm them and put them on the road or on post knowing that, if something is to happen, the theoretical knowledge is the basis on which they’re going to begin accumulating experience.
As to the issue of teachers being in positions where they have to make the kind of snap judgements that cops make, I don’t think the idea behind arming teachers is necessarily that they go out hunting for the gunman. They’re not expected to become an on call, impromptu SWAT team. If you lock the classroom door and grab your weapon you are ahead of the curve for protecting your students. If anyone knocks on the door you challenge them, warn them you are armed, and can have someone open the door from the other side while you cover the opening to ensure the individual coming in, seeking shelter is who they say they are. Otherwise if someone is trying to gain forcible entry, you have the upper hand of being able to assume a defensive fighting position, sights trained on the door, ready to open fire if necessary. No need to go roaming the halls like an action hero.