I’d also like to thank everyone who has contributed positively to the discussion. I should find the time to give each of you a thoughtful reply in the next week or so. Thank you again.
I would like to see armed security. Also, if a teacher has a concealed carry, they should be allowed to carry on the job.
However a federal school guard service is not what I have in mind. The last thing we need in the wake of tragedy is to create another bloated federal agency the likes of the TSA.
The problem with this is the same as the problem with the guard in the Parkland case. It is assumed that armed security is the quintessential “Good guy with a gun” and not just “another guy with a gun”.
A security officer could fill this role for a career with an extremely low chance of ever encountering a situation like this. Why do we think they will act appropriately? What’s to stop a shooter from taking there chances of getting past such a complacent guard, or simply ensuring the guard is the first target?
Big shocker dudes with guns freeze up… Everyone thinks they are dirty hairy with their gun rooms & tough talk but when shit goes down it trickles down their legs.
Teachers with guns yea right. Imagine your hs geography teacher going die hard…not gonna happen mrs finklestien
I hate to continue the thread derail, but there was also the English Civil War, the French Revolution, and untold fraggings before the modern frag grenade was invented. It was only violence and the credible threat of violence that forced any concessions from the ruling elites.
You know, when people use the term “slippery slope” discussing the “attack” on the 2A and “liberties” in general, they tend to forget another perspective on the problem - that it way pave way for creeping militarization of school and society.
In light of Trump’s recently floated idea about federal training for 1 million teachers (small government much?) where does it end?
Sure, you may protect actual school campuses but what about kids coming and going from school? School buses are a soft target, so why not put an equivalent of an air marshall in each bus?
But that’s not enough, a LEO located in the bus doesn’t have the time to determine the shooters location and return fire, especially during vehicle-in-transit attacks as in South Africa.
So you need an escort vehicle - when we’re at it, why not institute a convoy system for buses? What about parks, playgrounds and sport facilities?
Sure, I’m exaggerating, but not much - it’s a “slippery slope” and you many end up in a situation akin to South Africa where 7% of adult males are employed one way or the other in the security/protecion industry or LEO and a myriad of governmental and private entities supervise or control most of the comings and goings of daily life.
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He wasn’t a guard, he was a deputy making around 75,000 a year.
And after the French revolution you had Napoleon. Later you had Napoleon III.
We still have, for all intents and purposes, a ruling elite.
Which were followed by the revolutions of 1830 and 1848. But Democracy is brought to us by the democracy fairy and is born from democracy pixie dust, not blood.
But I won’t be baited into any more hyjacks, you can have the last word, just let this thread move on.
Point of order:
Athens: direct democracy
Rome: Republic
England: constitutional monarchy
All well before firearms.
I’m sorry I keep contributing to the hi-jack, but for the breif times one could call those countries democracies, it was because the dominant weapon systems of the day favored the small yeoman farmer, or free artisan. For example a small family farmer or even an urban potter could afford a spear, hoplon and helmet, an english farmer could make his own long bow.
Also, correct me if I’m wrong but Britain has never had a constitution, only a system of common law starting with the Magna Carta.
We’ve already let our government have unfettered access to all of our communication in the name of security because a couple of Sauds overstayed their Visas and took flying lessons. We have no right to privacy and we’ve forfeited the ‘unwarranted search and seizure’ part thanks to the war on drugs. The Constitution is just about shredded already.
Hell we’re killing American citizens with drone strikes with no due process.
What do you propose to keep schools safe? You’re our Russia expert. What did they do after Beslan?
They got a constitution in 1688. I didn’t remember that… I remember the ‘Glorious Revolution’. Luckily there’s Google.
I’ve heard of the glorious revolution, but didn’t know they got anything in writing. I’ll have to read into that. Thanks! That’s why I occasionally contribute to these conversations.
Maybe Canada isn’t a democracy after all. Our current leader (Justin Trudeau) is a big admirer of Fidel Castro, who was a close friend of his father. There is even a theory that Castro is Trudeau’s father, which sounds ridiculous until you see pictures of Castro when he was younger. They look almost identical, and Justin looks nothing like his father. I won’t bore you with the details of Canadian politics but the policies he is coming up with are certainly looking like left wing totalitarianism.
The thing that bothers me most about Canada are your speech codes. As soon as I heard that they fined a comedian for dealing with hecklers I thought “fuck that place.” Nothing against you Canadians, all of you that I have met are really good people. I don’t mean to throw stones, we have our own problems with the warrantless wire taps, asset forfeiture, etc, it’s a long list.
Yes, and they’re still letting you keep your guns, despite tightening the grip everywhere else. Which means, as I’ve been saying to @anon50325502, that the liberty-infringing tyrannical government is not afraid of suburban bros in tactical gear with their weapons.
Didn’t see citizen-soldiers march onto Washington when the NSA survelliance scandal broke out - it was just annoyingly smug memes of Facebook.
Why do you think there was such a push to legalize pot?
It’s probably a multifaceted problem linked to the collapse of traditional nuclear families, lack of opportunities/perspective for certain strata of young men locked in toxic perpetual adolescence, but one of the measures that would have an effect are sensible gun laws.
I know that sounds like bullshit, but hear me out - why should you be able to buy an AR-15 as a 19 year old HS dropout. Forget for a second infringing Constitutional rights, “At 19 I was old enough to serve in Iraq” and so on, “If I wanted to, I could cause more casualties with a semi auto handgun” etc.
Pure common sense. Do you believe you really, really, need an AR-15 at 19?. Not a hunting rifle, not a handgun but an AR-15 because if you don’t get one right now you’re bound the get murdered in a home invasion or gunned down in the street that day and your survival is literally at stake because a simple handgun will simply not cut it.
Seriously? At 19? Hell, at my BJJ club we just to turn down 18 year old kids who “wanted to learn to fight for when someone disses you in a club” because they were immature pricks.
Yeah, shooting an AR-15 is fun. It’s even more fun to fire a full clip AK-47 on full auto. But it seems that many of those rapid 2A supporters are just hiding their “I like assault rifles and want to keep shooting them” attitude behind noble-sounding platitudes about “defense against tyranny”. Didn’t see them do much defending.
Isn’t it cool when your can mask hobby with patriotism? It’s not that I’m having fun, I’m doing my “patriotic” duty - makes one feel good, doesn’t it?
But I know that creeping militarization is not the answer, otherwise you’re locked up in an ever escalating spiral.
I presume you want some feel-good story how they mercilessly hunted the culprits down and so on. Nothing changed in Russian schools in terms of security.
As for the terrorists behind it - some got killed, some crossed over to the Russians and now they’re best buddies with Kadyrov and hanging out with MMA fighters and others were allowed to go to Syria and do their jihadi stuff there to annoy you guys.
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Canada is definitely very liberal. I won’t defend Canadians as a whole, a lot of them are pretty messed up, but I guess it’s like that anywhere in the world. I never heard about comedians getting fined but we definitely don’t have free speech. We have the freedom to say things that don’t offend anyone and don’t break any laws.
So we bump the age up to 25 in your opinion? I was thinking last night, by what age do most psychological problems present? I know schizophrenia can be as late as 30. But the Vegas shooter was over 45 right?
Nobody “needs” more than water, shelter, and roughly 2k calories. That’s why the conversation about guns and needs never goes anywhere.
What danger does a militarized society present over a standing army? Meaning… our military could oppress/kill all of our inhabitants overnight. What would a few extra cops around schools in body armour matter for liberty’s sake?
And to your point about nobody caring about liberty anymore, you’re correct. At least to the extent we don’t resemble a free country any longer. At this point I don’t see privately held arms as a serious check on tyranny, but a check on the anarchy that happens when government/society fails. Not 20 years ago Venezuela was the most prosperous nation on their continent. Now they’re digging through the trash and fighting off looters. That is a very important time to be an armed individual.
Which only bolsters my point. But those democracies were nothing like what we have today.