Very nice indeed!
For others, it might not be clear that the gun Chris posted immediately above and the one I posted are from the same gunsmith, Gary Reeder.
My pic was photoshopped to get rid of the engraving, so I could see what the gun would look like clean.
[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
I love this gunā¦ Is this the S&W equivalent to Taurusās āThe Judgeā? Looks about the same size and caliber.
For my money this is the ābestā over all gun for medium talent gun owners, for home protection. If you keep it loaded with the 410 shot gun rounds, even if you are shaky and nervous you have a pretty good shot at taking down the asshole who broke in to your house. You can do damage even if your aim isnāt so great, but itās a hand gun. Hell, you can fill it with 2 rounds of 410 shells and then the other 3 with .45ās. You can disarm the motherfucker and then finish him off. 
[/quote]
Yes, this is the S&W answer to the Taurus Judge. I read several reviews and the Smith is much higher quality. The Judge has over a dozen finish and configuration options now, but the Smith is just better made, plus holds one more round than most Judges. Can only use 2.5 inch shells though, but no biggie. Plus it shoots 45 ACP with moon clips. So, 3 choices of ammo. [/quote]
Well, I definitely enjoy shooting The Judge, choice of ammo is one of the big reasons I like it so much. So I am sure I would enjoy āThe Governorā All though I think I would have to get in customer engraved to say āThe Governatorā. Itād just have to be done. If I can get my hands on one, Iād love to fire it and see how it does. I think a trip to the gun range is in order, I am getting the itch.
When is āThe Presidentā coming out?
[quote]pat wrote:
When is āThe Presidentā coming out?[/quote]
That would have been a better name for the Raging Judge 28 gauge! (Not sure if Taurus ever built this.)
[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
That is a beauty, Bill! I love single actions.
My dream SA in pic. Though Iād go with 44 Magnum to have the option of 44 Specials. And black grips. And a laser.
(Ok, no laser.)
[/quote]
Freedom Arms definitely makes some good looking guns.
Oh, and a gentleman always travels with white furniture.
USFA makes some fine firearms.
Iāve got a Single Six, but now I want a fancy gentlemanās revolver ā .45 Long Colt, of course.
Bunch oā thugs in here. Time to bring in some class.
I want a falling block rifle. This one is a custom, Iām probably going with Ruger or Dakota Arms. .45-70 ā Good enough for Buffalo, good enough for me. That and itās about time to start reloading and this has got to be one of the easier calibers to start with.
I was thinking about a pocket pistol, and a new Colt Government 380 not being available, was considering the CZ 2075. Ugly for sure, unlike the above. But solid.
However, I was bothered by the inefficiency of a 6.5" inch long gun only managing a 3.0" barrel. And I remembered that years back, when I had two P7ās, that I was wondering whether a gunsmith could take 0.6" off the grip to give it the same height as a Government 380.
Thinking on it again, the idea has a lot of appeal. If liking the weight instead of finding it a disadvantage, what better pocket pistol than this? (The below does not actually exist with this grip length: it would have to be custom done.)
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I was thinking about a pocket pistol, and a new Colt Government 380 not being available, was considering the CZ 2075. Ugly for sure, unlike the above. But solid.
However, I was bothered by the inefficiency of a 6.5" inch long gun only managing a 3.0" barrel. And I remembered that years back, when I had two P7ās, that I was wondering whether a gunsmith could take 0.6" off the grip to give it the same height as a Government 380.
Thinking on it again, the idea has a lot of appeal. If liking the weight instead of finding it a disadvantage, what better pocket pistol than this? (The below does not actually exist with this grip length: it would have to be custom done.)
[/quote]
How about a Makarov P-64 in 9x18, or if you want 12+1, the double stack CZ-82?
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I was thinking about a pocket pistol, and a new Colt Government 380 not being available, was considering the CZ 2075. Ugly for sure, unlike the above. But solid.
However, I was bothered by the inefficiency of a 6.5" inch long gun only managing a 3.0" barrel. And I remembered that years back, when I had two P7ās, that I was wondering whether a gunsmith could take 0.6" off the grip to give it the same height as a Government 380.
Thinking on it again, the idea has a lot of appeal. If liking the weight instead of finding it a disadvantage, what better pocket pistol than this? (The below does not actually exist with this grip length: it would have to be custom done.)
[/quote]
I have a Sig P 232 in .380 that is darn near impossible to see because it is a single stack and very flat.
Itās my āNYC pistolā (yes, I do have a CHL for NYC ā damn hard to get, too).
I like it because, while it is a small pistol, itās got a large grip and good ergonomics. No āsnaggyā bits on it.
Length is 6.6 inches; barrel is 3.6 inches.
EDIT: it also has a fixed barrel so (I suspect) it is a bit more accurate than those with a barrel that travels with the slide.
[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I was thinking about a pocket pistol, and a new Colt Government 380 not being available, was considering the CZ 2075. Ugly for sure, unlike the above. But solid.
However, I was bothered by the inefficiency of a 6.5" inch long gun only managing a 3.0" barrel. And I remembered that years back, when I had two P7ās, that I was wondering whether a gunsmith could take 0.6" off the grip to give it the same height as a Government 380.
Thinking on it again, the idea has a lot of appeal. If liking the weight instead of finding it a disadvantage, what better pocket pistol than this? (The below does not actually exist with this grip length: it would have to be custom done.)
[/quote]
How about a Makarov P-64 in 9x18, or if you want 12+1, the double stack CZ-82? [/quote]
I had a Makarov some time back, but really prefer cocked and locked. Mentioning the 2075 probably made it appear that Iād want a double stack, but for a pocket pistol Iād prefer the slimness of a single stack. The P7 for example is 1.1 inches.
That preference aside, the Makarov is a very good pocket gun in its own right.
EDIT: On ammunition, the choices seem few with Makarov now. I canāt remember what I used before. Now what quick Googling shows me is only Hornady XTP, other than target ammo. 95 grains, 1000 fps from a 4" barrel. By comparison, Double Tap 380 ACP at 95 grains gives 1080 fps from only 3.5". So while nominally Makarov should be the more powerful, so far as choices actually out there, apparently it isnāt.
Bill, if you like the Colt Mustang, you may want to look into the Sig P238. Twenty different variations available.
Iām a little concerned with what many are saying has happened to Sig quality since Ron Cohen, who had previously sent Kimber quality down to quite questionable depths, was made CEO of Sig. There have been a lot of complaints on various current Sig guns. There have been some specific complaints on the P238, but I havenāt looked into how widespread, serious, and/or hard-to-correct the problems may be.
Other than that, I like them, particularly with the extended magazine giving a little more grip.
Not that forum posts accurately prove the extent of any problem, but these for example are all-in-a-row, rather than being cherry-picked objections. Of all these, one is positive but speaks of only a single gun being fine, one is positive in a defensive sense and is from someone in the business of selling things for Sigs, but thatās it for positive opinion of extent of current Sig quality:
[quote]I think the issues are with certain models.
The Sig 2022 models seem to be good to go.[/quote]
[quote]A lot of the older tried and true guns are still functionally fine. Itās the quality of machining and finish that have noticeably decreased.
It also seems like 90% of the new products they bring to market havenāt made their way through R&D completely. They have lots of issues that need worked out first. Some of the stuff is plain junk.
I havenāt bought any Sig guns made in the last 4 years. The last one I bought was my 556 rifle, and I bought that in early '07, after they worked all the bugs out of the production (canted rails, mismatched finish etc).
IMHO, buy the gun from a dealer where you can inspect it first or just donāt buy it. Or, you can do like me and boycott Sig on the principle of their decreased quality and poor CS.[/quote]
[quote]I wouldnāt necessarily say heās allowed it to decrease. Our industry has been lucky to have survived so well for so long even in a declining economy. Ron has had to balance the price of the guns with the economy and with material prices going up due to everything considered, Iād say heās done a pretty good job of keeping the price from going through the roof.
Granted Sigās are some of the most expensive guns on the market, but if you look at all the machining involved in making such a complicated gun, I can see where the price comes from. The slides, frames and barrels are extremely well designed and built from some seriously high grade materials. True the Locking Insert is now MIM, which I donāt personally like, but with making it a MIM part the factory was able to add a support strut that was nearly impossible to manufacture previously. That support strut prevents the locking insert from reverberating under recoil and maintains frame stability.
Back to the topic at handā¦ Sigās Still shoot very well. True the trigger pulls suck, but thatās easily fixable with the new products that we at Apex and our friends at GGI are coming out with.[/quote]
[quote]Iāve been around Sig products since '94 and own several German produced Sport models, P229 Sport, P226 Sport Stock and also a P228 machined in germany and assembled in US around '99. The craftsmanship on them is second to none.
The newly produced US models , in terms of total quality, just arenāt up to the old standards. To say it another way, at one time you got what you paid for in a Sig. IMHO thatās no longer the case.
I feel that in todays market if a person is looking for that āoldā standard of quality at a Sig price point, Look at an H&K produced product.
Just below the Sig price there are a ton of Quality firearms being produced ,Glock, Springfield Armory, S&W, FNH, ect,ect.
Yes , I feel that someone at Sig screwed the pooch , maybe it was that former Kimber guy. [/quote]
[quote]The newly produced US models , in terms of total quality, just arenāt up to the old standards. To say it another way, at one time you got what you paid for in a Sig. IMHO thatās no longer the case.
This seems to be the ābookā on Sigs.
Per Dr. Gary Roberts: āThese days, skip new Sigs, although the older German made Sig 9 mmĆ???Ć???Ć???Ć???Ć??Ć?ĆĀ¢??s are superbā¦ā
Service Pistol Duty and Self-Defense Loads - M4Carbine.net Forums (toward the bottom of the page.)
A student of mine, last Saturday and Sunday, had multiple malfunctions with his Sig 9mm, which had been back to the factory right after he bought it, because it didnāt function right out of the box, brand newāwith all three magazines! Ammo was Federal factory FMJ.[/quote]
[quote][quote]I think the issues are with certain models.
The Sig 2022 models seem to be good to go.[/quote]
Some seem to be more troublesome than others, [forum link provided in the original][/quote]
And there are any number of other places where people are saying generally the same, usually with little argument against. So, as I donāt know of a good gunsmith specializing in making sure that a particular example of this relatively new model of Sig (brought to market in the time frame in question) will run right, I have concerns about it. HK, I donāt worry about.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Iām a little concerned with what many are saying has happened to Sig quality since [/quote]
Itās not just Sig (which used to be among the best). The entire industry has been getting pretty crappy as demand inceased. I bought a new Remington 870 as my house gun in Texas (I travel all up and down the oilfield). It failed to feed out of the box. A gunsmith worked on it, but I have ZERO faith in the weapon and gave it to my drunk brother.
Bushmaster had a similar drop in quality when the production moved from Windham.
I used to not be a āusedā gun fan, but outside of FN, GLOCK, Ruger, and Benelli/Beretta I would prefer a lightly-used 5 year old weapon.
Sad to hear that about Sig. Guess weāll need to spring for Kimbers!
How about a Kimber Solo, Bill? I think itās DAO though.
[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
When is āThe Presidentā coming out?[/quote]
That would have been a better name for the Raging Judge 28 gauge! (Not sure if Taurus ever built this.) [/quote]
They did actually. But I donāt like the name either. It was designed to handle the 454 rounds and is a 7 shooter. For my money thatās plenty, if you cannot get them in 7, run like hell.
Being a larger pistol though it kind defeats the purpose of the compact design of the original. They should have called it āThe juryā.
They also have a slightly smaller version called āThe Public Defenderā Fun times.
[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
Sad to hear that about Sig. Guess weāll need to spring for Kimbers!
How about a Kimber Solo, Bill? I think itās DAO though.
[/quote]
It seems to be DA/SA, as they claim āThen there is the single action striker-fired trigger pull - even and smooth.ā But as to whether it can be carried cocked-and-locked or the first pull is always DA, I donāt know. I really liked this when first seeing something about it, but at that time the gun wasnāt actually out. Maybe it is now?
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
It failed to feed out of the box. A gunsmith worked on it, but I have ZERO faith in the weapon and gave it to my drunk brother.
[/quote]
Thereās some brotherly love right there! LOL!
The .88 Magnum!