Girls with Guns... and Sometimes Spears

Alpha F, a place to discuss relevant, armed self-defense for women.

Copied and pasted from the Gun Love Thread (beginning with the link that you had posted):

LOGANVILLE, Ga. â?? A Georgia mother who shot an intruder at her home has become a small part of the roaring gun control debate, with some firearms enthusiasts touting her as a textbook example of responsible gun ownership.

Melinda Herman grabbed a handgun and hid in a crawl space with her two children when a man broke in last week and approached the family at their home northeast of Atlanta, police said. Herman called her husband on the phone, and with him reminding her of the lessons she recently learned at a shooting range, Herman opened fire, seriously wounding the burglary suspect.

The National Rifle Association tweeted a link to a news story about the shooting, and support poured in from others online, hailing Herman as a hero. The local sheriff said he was proud of the way she handled the situation.

“This lady decided that she wasn’t going to be a victim, and I think everyone else looks at this and hopes they have the courage to do what she done,” Walton County Sheriff Joe Chapman said Wednesday.

Herman was working from home Friday when she saw a man walk up to the front door. She told police he rang the doorbell twice and then over and over again. He went back to his SUV, got something out and walked back toward the house, a police report said.

Herman took her 9-year-old son and daughter into an upstairs bedroom and locked the door. They went into bathroom and she locked that door, too. She got her handgun from a safe, the report said, and hid with her children. At some point, she called her husband, who kept her on the line and called 911 on another line.

In a 10-minute 911 recording released by the Walton County Sheriff’s Office, Donnie Herman calmly explained what was happening to a dispatcher. His part of the conversation with his wife was also recorded.

“Is he in the house, Melinda? Are you sure? How do you know? You can hear him in the house?” Donnie Herman said.

His wife told him the intruder was coming closer.

“He’s in the bedroom? Shh, shh, relax. Just remember everything that I showed you, everything that I taught you, all right?” Donnie Herman told his wife, explaining later to the dispatcher that he had recently taken her to a gun range.

It wasn’t clear from the recording exactly when they went to range and Donnie Herman told The Associated Press on Wednesday the family didn’t want to talk about the shooting.

After Donnie Herman told his wife police were on the way, he started shouting: “She shot him. She’s shootin’ him. She’s shootin’ him. She’s shootin’ him. She’s shootin’ him.”

“OK,” the dispatcher responded.

“Shoot him again! Shoot him!” Donnie Herman yelled. He told the dispatcher he heard a lot of screaming, but he seems to get increasingly worried when he doesn’t hear anything from his wife.

Melinda Herman told police she started shooting the man when he opened the door to the crawl space. The man pleaded with her to stop, but she kept firing until she had emptied her rounds, she told police. She then fled to a neighbor’s house with her children.

The man drove away in his SUV. Police found the SUV on another subdivision street and discovered a man bleeding from his face and body in a nearby wooded area. Police identified the suspect as 32-year-old Paul Slater of Atlanta.

Chapman said the hospital asked him not to comment on Slater’s condition, but he said he is not certain Slater will survive. Authorities have a warrant but haven’t formally arrested Slater yet. They plan to charge him with burglary, possession of tools for the commission of a crime and aggravated assault, Walton County sheriff’s Capt. Greg Hall said.

A phone number for Slater was not listed and it was not clear whether he has an attorney.

Authorities believe Slater targeted a home in another local subdivision but left when confronted by the homeowner, Chapman said.

Read more: Georgia mother who shot intruder inspires opponents of gun control | Fox News

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

I read this link yesterday and did ask my husband what he thought. He said “Empty every round into him and don’t stop”. The only thing I’d have (maybe) done differently is lock the kids up and actively pursue him and then pulverize him. After all, he’s in my home, right?
That is what my instincts tell me instead of hiding and being a sitting duck. Maybe I’m wrong, IDK.

[/quote]

I had the same thoughts as you. And I had an in depth conversation with my husband because of this very instinctual nature you talk about - I would not be attracting the criminal by being on the phone with my husband, I tell you that much - she literally LURED him into that cupboard and probably put the life of her children in danger more than if she just hid and remained quiet or chose to go after him, in my opinion.

I saw in the article the aggressor “pleaded with her to stop shooting”, and yet she continued to.

I asked my husband about different scenarios and he mentioned forensic science ( it can determine whether she shot him from the back, at arm’s length, etc…all important in determining if she was guilty of murder or acting in self-defense.) and he also mentioned the sheriff in this instance praised her for her actions whereas another officer may have thought "was it really necessary to put 6 bullets in him…“what a pig” and “trigger happy”, judgments from people who make decisions based on their self-righteous emotions.

These views that “cuddle” criminals concern me. I have seen first hand in London, how the justice system has turned to side more with the criminal’s rights than the law abiding citizen.
I would rather deal with the violence from the criminal than the weapons of self-righteousness an unjust legal system may throw at me.

lol…I told him I was not going to attach a primitive looking spear to a 21st century paddle board on a beach where most tourists are friendly looking Canadians.
And he got me a beautiful dagger as well to tie up to the thigh ( he probably has some James Bond girl fantasy going on subconsciously for me - or he wants to add knives to his collection in the name of 'wife safety":)…because I did not ask for it.
And being that in London knifes are banned, too, I feel really self conscious and still feel like I am breaking the law and police officers are going to hunt me down…

At this point I think it is a good idea if you just transfer this post to the women and guns thread you mentioned.
We can talk about the legal issues, specially, and start learning and keep each other sharp about it.

I should be able to go to the range within the next two weeks and will start a thread anyway, but by all means let’s go take this over there if you want to start a post sooner.

It has been a pleasure so far to exchange notes with you!
[/quote]

I had to include batman730’s post from that thread also as he always contributes meaningful and insightful thoughts.

[quote]

Pardon the interruption ladies. However, IMHO, in most situations if you cannot safely get the kids out of the house the safest response is to barricade yourself and you kids in a locked room behind some kind of meaningful cover, call 911 from a cell phone and explain what’s happening, follow the dispatcher’s instructions, cover off the door with your weapon and hold. If he tries to take the door, announce yourself then start firing through the door.

As much as I applaud and can relate to your righteous indignation and the spirit to take the fight to the bad guy, an armed person holding an even moderately fortified position has a decided advantage over anybody trying to assault that position, all things being equal. Just ask a S.W.A.T guy. If you go “hunting”, the playing field levels out pretty fast. This is not a gender thing, it’s a tactical thing. I would say the same thing to a guy. Have a room and a basic protocol for getting there and securing it picked out ahead of time and ideally practice it a few times with your kids. Like a fire drill.

If you and your children are relatively safe in a defensible position the only thing in jeopardy is your property, which is all replaceable. If you try to go on the offensive, this all changes.[/quote]

Was hoping for pics of scantily clad babes posing with guns and other weapons.

:frowning:

My gun…

Sorry csulli but that would just be weird, wouldn’t it? lol

In response to batman’s post, one thing jumps out at me right away and that’s firing through the door. How do SWAT teams determine it’s safe to do so? In other words, what if someone else (other than your intruder) is on the other side of the door?

Like another family member, neighbor or emergency help? I’m seeing merit to this but I also think it may cause one (especially female) to hesitate and become a vitcim. I really don’t know and am asking as this is a subject that has been on my mind quite a bit in recent months.

How’s this fit in with making my sammich?

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
How’s this fit in with making my sammich?[/quote]
Like this.

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
In response to batman’s post, one thing jumps out at me right away and that’s firing through the door. How do SWAT teams determine it’s safe to do so? In other words, what if someone else (other than your intruder) is on the other side of the door?

Like another family member, neighbor or emergency help? I’m seeing merit to this but I also think it may cause one (especially female) to hesitate and become a vitcim. I really don’t know and am asking as this is a subject that has been on my mind quite a bit in recent months.[/quote]

Can not speak for any swat team members but through all my training, instruction and just plain life knowledge I have never been told to shoot thru a door. You take a chance of wasting limited ammo and also missing your target. Now I’m only talking from a defensive position.

Maybe some other experts have other instructions to share.

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
How’s this fit in with making my sammich?[/quote]
Like this. [/quote]

pics are so big…sorry. lol

Awesome!

Well-played, JJ!

:slight_smile:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
In response to batman’s post, one thing jumps out at me right away and that’s firing through the door. How do SWAT teams determine it’s safe to do so? In other words, what if someone else (other than your intruder) is on the other side of the door?

Like another family member, neighbor or emergency help? I’m seeing merit to this but I also think it may cause one (especially female) to hesitate and become a vitcim. I really don’t know and am asking as this is a subject that has been on my mind quite a bit in recent months.[/quote]

Can not speak for any swat team members but through all my training, instruction and just plain life knowledge I have never been told to shoot thru a door. You take a chance of wasting limited ammo and also missing your target. Now I’m only talking from a defensive position.

Maybe some other experts have other instructions to share.[/quote]

You have a military background or something similar, no? You always appear knowledgeable when topics like this come up and I’m certain I’ve read something to that effect before.

Missed ammo is important too. My mags are 17 rounds bu still, you never know.

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
In response to batman’s post, one thing jumps out at me right away and that’s firing through the door. How do SWAT teams determine it’s safe to do so? In other words, what if someone else (other than your intruder) is on the other side of the door?

Like another family member, neighbor or emergency help? I’m seeing merit to this but I also think it may cause one (especially female) to hesitate and become a vitcim. I really don’t know and am asking as this is a subject that has been on my mind quite a bit in recent months.[/quote]

Like Batman said, the way you know its not a family member, neighbor or emergency help is to announce yourself (something I personally wouldn’t do)

If you said, “I have a gun and if you open that door I will shoot you. Police are on their way.” whoever is attempting to open your door will A. Leave very quickly if they are an intruder or B. say “Don’t shoot! It’s me Johnny from next door.” (Or whatever)

Anyway, pretty cool story. I’m glad that she was able to protect herself and her family.

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Missed ammo is important too. My mags are 17 rounds bu still, you never know.
[/quote]

If you have 17 rounds and can’t put an intruder down from within 25 feet you shouldn’t be firing a handgun (assuming they aren’t wearing a vest)

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Missed ammo is important too. My mags are 17 rounds bu still, you never know.
[/quote]

If you have 17 rounds and can’t put an intruder down from within 25 feet you shouldn’t be firing a handgun (assuming they aren’t wearing a vest)[/quote]

Limited rounds shooting thru a door at an unseen Target? Add the adrenalin dump where double tap turns into quad tap and you can give someone 2 full mags and let them go Nuts. If you miss the first time all the intruder needs to do is step aside and let you finish. Unless you are just giving him warning shots (something else I don’t normally recommend) then don’t waste ammo.

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
In response to batman’s post, one thing jumps out at me right away and that’s firing through the door. How do SWAT teams determine it’s safe to do so? In other words, what if someone else (other than your intruder) is on the other side of the door?

Like another family member, neighbor or emergency help? I’m seeing merit to this but I also think it may cause one (especially female) to hesitate and become a vitcim. I really don’t know and am asking as this is a subject that has been on my mind quite a bit in recent months.[/quote]

Can not speak for any swat team members but through all my training, instruction and just plain life knowledge I have never been told to shoot thru a door. You take a chance of wasting limited ammo and also missing your target. Now I’m only talking from a defensive position.

Maybe some other experts have other instructions to share.[/quote]

You have a military background or something similar, no? You always appear knowledgeable when topics like this come up and I’m certain I’ve read something to that effect before.

[/quote]

20+ retired old trying to stay Iron dwarf sexy these days.

But as they said before if you know family or loved ones are not behind that door then you have the option. But blasting away?.. Maybe not. I’m on the fence with warning shots but maybe they have a place. I’ve seen people shoot scared or with elevated heart rates and it’s easy to lose count of what you have. If the people on the other side are also armed and more than one guy. Well these are the questions

Missed ammo is important too. My mags are 17 rounds bu still, you never know.

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Missed ammo is important too. My mags are 17 rounds bu still, you never know.
[/quote]

If you have 17 rounds and can’t put an intruder down from within 25 feet you shouldn’t be firing a handgun (assuming they aren’t wearing a vest)[/quote]

Limited rounds shooting thru a door at an unseen Target? Add the adrenalin dump where double tap turns into quad tap and you can give someone 2 full mags and let them go Nuts. If you miss the first time all the intruder needs to do is step aside and let you finish. Unless you are just giving him warning shots (something else I don’t normally recommend) then don’t waste ammo. [/quote]

Virtually everyone in the world has opened a door before (certainly everyone in this thread has) and people stand in basically the same position while opening a door. It wouldn’t be hard to know where the other person is standing while taking aim through a door.

Even if you fired 2-3 times and somehow managed to miss completely, whoever is on the other side of the door is going to run faster than Usain Bolt to get out of there, especially if you announced before hand that you were in there with a gun and had called the police already.

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Missed ammo is important too. My mags are 17 rounds bu still, you never know.
[/quote]

If you have 17 rounds and can’t put an intruder down from within 25 feet you shouldn’t be firing a handgun (assuming they aren’t wearing a vest)[/quote]

Limited rounds shooting thru a door at an unseen Target? Add the adrenalin dump where double tap turns into quad tap and you can give someone 2 full mags and let them go Nuts. If you miss the first time all the intruder needs to do is step aside and let you finish. Unless you are just giving him warning shots (something else I don’t normally recommend) then don’t waste ammo. [/quote]

Virtually everyone in the world has opened a door before (certainly everyone in this thread has) and people stand in basically the same position while opening a door. It wouldn’t be hard to know where the other person is standing while taking aim through a door.

Even if you fired 2-3 times and somehow managed to miss completely, whoever is on the other side of the door is going to run faster than Usain Bolt to get out of there, especially if you announced before hand that you were in there with a gun and had called the police already.[/quote]

Hahahah, ok

But it still sounds more like a wish than a fact that you will hit your target or that they will run. It may turn out to be a good gamble also. But I’m not willing to gamble and tell someone to blast away (just talking about my loved ones of course).

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
My gun…

Sorry csulli but that would just be weird, wouldn’t it? lol[/quote]

Ahhh the PX4 Storm. I have one myself. It’s a very good weapon.

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Missed ammo is important too. My mags are 17 rounds bu still, you never know.
[/quote]

If you have 17 rounds and can’t put an intruder down from within 25 feet you shouldn’t be firing a handgun (assuming they aren’t wearing a vest)[/quote]

Limited rounds shooting thru a door at an unseen Target? Add the adrenalin dump where double tap turns into quad tap and you can give someone 2 full mags and let them go Nuts. If you miss the first time all the intruder needs to do is step aside and let you finish. Unless you are just giving him warning shots (something else I don’t normally recommend) then don’t waste ammo. [/quote]

Virtually everyone in the world has opened a door before (certainly everyone in this thread has) and people stand in basically the same position while opening a door. It wouldn’t be hard to know where the other person is standing while taking aim through a door.

Even if you fired 2-3 times and somehow managed to miss completely, whoever is on the other side of the door is going to run faster than Usain Bolt to get out of there, especially if you announced before hand that you were in there with a gun and had called the police already.[/quote]

Hahahah, ok

But it still sounds more like a wish than a fact that you will hit your target or that they will run. It may turn out to be a good gamble also. But I’m not willing to gamble and tell someone to blast away (just talking about my loved ones of course).

[/quote]

With all that being said, I wouldn’t advise someone without extensive experience to fire through a doorway when you could just wait 10 seconds till the door is open and you have a target that is much more defined. lol