[quote]pushharder wrote:
Army to replace 9mm pistol with more reliable gun packing better 'knock down? power
Might I suggest the Govt Model .45 ACP? Yeah, the same one the Army ditched 30 years ago for the 9mm Beretta. Dummies.[/quote]
I’ve shot a Desert Eagle .50 and let me tell you did it ever ring a gong. Not even a 10mm came close to ringing it in the same way. I’m thinking if you can make the first shot count, you won’t need another.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Army to replace 9mm pistol with more reliable gun packing better ‘knock down’ power
Might I suggest the Govt Model .45 ACP? Yeah, the same one the Army ditched 30 years ago for the 9mm Beretta. Dummies.[/quote]
I love my .45, but am going to get a 9mm to keep in the truck and CC on occasion. Shot placement will always be crucial, and I can put more rounds on target in less time with the 9mm. Of course I can use +P hollow points and the military can’t, thanks to the Geneva Convention. With hollow points being illegal for the military, it only makes sense for them to make the biggest holes they can.
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
I love my .45, but am going to get a 9mm to keep in the truck and CC on occasion. Shot placement will always be crucial, and I can put more rounds on target in less time with the 9mm. Of course I can use +P hollow points and the military can’t, thanks to the Geneva Convention. With hollow points being illegal for the military, it only makes sense for them to make the biggest holes they can. [/quote]
Basically, everything I’ve read agrees with you here, lol. (Note: I’m just parroting what I’ve read.)
I’m leaning towards a 9mm when my restriction is up and a decide to carry. But we’ll see what unfolds as time goes by.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
I love my .45, but am going to get a 9mm to keep in the truck and CC on occasion. Shot placement will always be crucial, and I can put more rounds on target in less time with the 9mm. Of course I can use +P hollow points and the military can’t, thanks to the Geneva Convention. With hollow points being illegal for the military, it only makes sense for them to make the biggest holes they can. [/quote]
Basically, everything I’ve read agrees with you here, lol. (Note: I’m just parroting what I’ve read.)
I’m leaning towards a 9mm when my restriction is up and a decide to carry. But we’ll see what unfolds as time goes by. [/quote]
R. Lee Ermey did a special on Discovery or History where he tested the Beretta 9mm and a Colt .45 for shot placement & follow up shot speed. The 9mm was quite a bit quicker.
In my experience a 9mm is easier to handle, but I absolutely love my .45 (Kimber customer II) more so than anything else I’ve ever shot. 1911s just feel right.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
I love my .45, but am going to get a 9mm to keep in the truck and CC on occasion. Shot placement will always be crucial, and I can put more rounds on target in less time with the 9mm. Of course I can use +P hollow points and the military can’t, thanks to the Geneva Convention. With hollow points being illegal for the military, it only makes sense for them to make the biggest holes they can. [/quote]
Basically, everything I’ve read agrees with you here, lol. (Note: I’m just parroting what I’ve read.)
I’m leaning towards a 9mm when my restriction is up and a decide to carry. But we’ll see what unfolds as time goes by. [/quote]
I’m curious, what sort of restrictions do you have to deal with? Are we talking bullshit Massachusetts restrictions?
Not to get into a caliber debate, but I believe that the best gun to carry is the gun that you actually carry. Some can handle their day-to-day routines with a steel and walnut 1911 or a .44 magnum revolver on their hip. More power to you. That’ll get the job done, no doubt about it.
I never carried regularly until I found a piece that I could carry with confidence AND comfort. I can wear a S&W Shield in 9mm all day without discomfort or changing anything about my routine. In the car, at the park, in the store, being moderately active, it conceals just fine in shorts and a t-shirt, it is light enough to wear all day while being heavy enough to remind you it is there and keep perceived recoil in check.
I’m also not an expert shooter, but I can handle 9mm with confidence and competence. It is easy to shoot and that is what I want in a carry gun.
What needs to be kicked to the curb is this notion that 9mm is underpowered. It is most definitely not when you load with high-quality JHP, like Golden Sabers or Speer 124gr +p (my carry ammo). The only scenario I would ever consider carrying a larger caliber is during winter, when multiple layers of heavy clothing can hinder expansion, in which case you just get more penetration.
I’ve been eyeballing the XDs in .45 for this exact reason - similar dimensions to the Shield but .45 power for winter at the expense of capacity and ease of operation.
That said, the whole winter clothing conundrum is mostly a fancy pretense to justify expanding my collection of dangerous things.
[quote]twojarslave wrote:
I’m curious, what sort of restrictions do you have to deal with? Are we talking bullshit Massachusetts restrictions?
[/quote]
Yes. I have my Class A, however it is a “sporting” restriction. The local police here have the discretion to limit or deny anyone they want, it is a “may issue” state. The AG is a communist so she won’t even take up Civil Rights cases, unless it was a criminal with a gun that had his feeling hurt during the prevention of his crime spree.
I guess the Chief removes the restriction after two years, but have heard many a story of the “renewed” license taking upwards of 18 months to come in.
*Sporting restriction = no carry, but I can do everything else and buy any MA complaint firearm. Just can’t carry.
*should read " The AG is a communist so she won’t even take up these type Civil Rights cases"
I have a left handed Benelli 12 ga and I absolutely love i. I would highly recommend it. 1000k+
[quote]twojarslave wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
I love my .45, but am going to get a 9mm to keep in the truck and CC on occasion. Shot placement will always be crucial, and I can put more rounds on target in less time with the 9mm. Of course I can use +P hollow points and the military can’t, thanks to the Geneva Convention. With hollow points being illegal for the military, it only makes sense for them to make the biggest holes they can. [/quote]
Basically, everything I’ve read agrees with you here, lol. (Note: I’m just parroting what I’ve read.)
I’m leaning towards a 9mm when my restriction is up and a decide to carry. But we’ll see what unfolds as time goes by. [/quote]
I’m curious, what sort of restrictions do you have to deal with? Are we talking bullshit Massachusetts restrictions?
Not to get into a caliber debate, but I believe that the best gun to carry is the gun that you actually carry. Some can handle their day-to-day routines with a steel and walnut 1911 or a .44 magnum revolver on their hip. More power to you. That’ll get the job done, no doubt about it.
I never carried regularly until I found a piece that I could carry with confidence AND comfort. I can wear a S&W Shield in 9mm all day without discomfort or changing anything about my routine. In the car, at the park, in the store, being moderately active, it conceals just fine in shorts and a t-shirt, it is light enough to wear all day while being heavy enough to remind you it is there and keep perceived recoil in check.
I’m also not an expert shooter, but I can handle 9mm with confidence and competence. It is easy to shoot and that is what I want in a carry gun.
What needs to be kicked to the curb is this notion that 9mm is underpowered. It is most definitely not when you load with high-quality JHP, like Golden Sabers or Speer 124gr +p (my carry ammo). The only scenario I would ever consider carrying a larger caliber is during winter, when multiple layers of heavy clothing can hinder expansion, in which case you just get more penetration.
I’ve been eyeballing the XDs in .45 for this exact reason - similar dimensions to the Shield but .45 power for winter at the expense of capacity and ease of operation.
That said, the whole winter clothing conundrum is mostly a fancy pretense to justify expanding my collection of dangerous things.
[/quote]
I agree with all of that. A lot of the “9mm sucks!” crowd point to the military’s recent turning away from the 9mm, but they miss the fact that the military is handicapped in what kind of ammo they can carry.
Now if I carried a full sized handgun as a side arm, I would probably go for a .45. Might even look into a .40, 10mm or .357 sig. I hear those have excellent stopping power, but haven’t had the chance shoot them myself. But as the size and weight of the gun gets smaller I think it only makes sense to scale back the power of the ammo as well. But I wouldn’t go as small as a .380.
pics of the South Carolina Commemorative PTR-91 can be found here. Governor made SC a very gun friendly state.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=425948830#PIC
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
[quote]twojarslave wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
I love my .45, but am going to get a 9mm to keep in the truck and CC on occasion. Shot placement will always be crucial, and I can put more rounds on target in less time with the 9mm. Of course I can use +P hollow points and the military can’t, thanks to the Geneva Convention. With hollow points being illegal for the military, it only makes sense for them to make the biggest holes they can. [/quote]
Basically, everything I’ve read agrees with you here, lol. (Note: I’m just parroting what I’ve read.)
I’m leaning towards a 9mm when my restriction is up and a decide to carry. But we’ll see what unfolds as time goes by. [/quote]
I’m curious, what sort of restrictions do you have to deal with? Are we talking bullshit Massachusetts restrictions?
Not to get into a caliber debate, but I believe that the best gun to carry is the gun that you actually carry. Some can handle their day-to-day routines with a steel and walnut 1911 or a .44 magnum revolver on their hip. More power to you. That’ll get the job done, no doubt about it.
I never carried regularly until I found a piece that I could carry with confidence AND comfort. I can wear a S&W Shield in 9mm all day without discomfort or changing anything about my routine. In the car, at the park, in the store, being moderately active, it conceals just fine in shorts and a t-shirt, it is light enough to wear all day while being heavy enough to remind you it is there and keep perceived recoil in check.
I’m also not an expert shooter, but I can handle 9mm with confidence and competence. It is easy to shoot and that is what I want in a carry gun.
What needs to be kicked to the curb is this notion that 9mm is underpowered. It is most definitely not when you load with high-quality JHP, like Golden Sabers or Speer 124gr +p (my carry ammo). The only scenario I would ever consider carrying a larger caliber is during winter, when multiple layers of heavy clothing can hinder expansion, in which case you just get more penetration.
I’ve been eyeballing the XDs in .45 for this exact reason - similar dimensions to the Shield but .45 power for winter at the expense of capacity and ease of operation.
That said, the whole winter clothing conundrum is mostly a fancy pretense to justify expanding my collection of dangerous things.
[/quote]
I agree with all of that. A lot of the “9mm sucks!” crowd point to the military’s recent turning away from the 9mm, but they miss the fact that the military is handicapped in what kind of ammo they can carry.
Now if I carried a full sized handgun as a side arm, I would probably go for a .45. Might even look into a .40, 10mm or .357 sig. I hear those have excellent stopping power, but haven’t had the chance shoot them myself. But as the size and weight of the gun gets smaller I think it only makes sense to scale back the power of the ammo as well. But I wouldn’t go as small as a .380.[/quote]
I am seriously thinking about switching to a 9mm myself. Cheaper ammo and unless you are using ball ammo, the case for the .45 holds a lot less water. Plus its an easier shooter. I can actually shoot a 1911 comparably to a double-stacked 9 but I will shoot better with the double stacked 9 vs the double stacked .45 almost every time (provided I have set it up to my liking).
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
[quote]twojarslave wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
I love my .45, but am going to get a 9mm to keep in the truck and CC on occasion. Shot placement will always be crucial, and I can put more rounds on target in less time with the 9mm. Of course I can use +P hollow points and the military can’t, thanks to the Geneva Convention. With hollow points being illegal for the military, it only makes sense for them to make the biggest holes they can. [/quote]
Basically, everything I’ve read agrees with you here, lol. (Note: I’m just parroting what I’ve read.)
I’m leaning towards a 9mm when my restriction is up and a decide to carry. But we’ll see what unfolds as time goes by. [/quote]
I’m curious, what sort of restrictions do you have to deal with? Are we talking bullshit Massachusetts restrictions?
Not to get into a caliber debate, but I believe that the best gun to carry is the gun that you actually carry. Some can handle their day-to-day routines with a steel and walnut 1911 or a .44 magnum revolver on their hip. More power to you. That’ll get the job done, no doubt about it.
I never carried regularly until I found a piece that I could carry with confidence AND comfort. I can wear a S&W Shield in 9mm all day without discomfort or changing anything about my routine. In the car, at the park, in the store, being moderately active, it conceals just fine in shorts and a t-shirt, it is light enough to wear all day while being heavy enough to remind you it is there and keep perceived recoil in check.
I’m also not an expert shooter, but I can handle 9mm with confidence and competence. It is easy to shoot and that is what I want in a carry gun.
What needs to be kicked to the curb is this notion that 9mm is underpowered. It is most definitely not when you load with high-quality JHP, like Golden Sabers or Speer 124gr +p (my carry ammo). The only scenario I would ever consider carrying a larger caliber is during winter, when multiple layers of heavy clothing can hinder expansion, in which case you just get more penetration.
I’ve been eyeballing the XDs in .45 for this exact reason - similar dimensions to the Shield but .45 power for winter at the expense of capacity and ease of operation.
That said, the whole winter clothing conundrum is mostly a fancy pretense to justify expanding my collection of dangerous things.
[/quote]
I agree with all of that. A lot of the “9mm sucks!” crowd point to the military’s recent turning away from the 9mm, but they miss the fact that the military is handicapped in what kind of ammo they can carry.
Now if I carried a full sized handgun as a side arm, I would probably go for a .45. Might even look into a .40, 10mm or .357 sig. I hear those have excellent stopping power, but haven’t had the chance shoot them myself. But as the size and weight of the gun gets smaller I think it only makes sense to scale back the power of the ammo as well. But I wouldn’t go as small as a .380.[/quote]
I am seriously thinking about switching to a 9mm myself. Cheaper ammo and unless you are using ball ammo, the case for the .45 holds a lot less water. Plus its an easier shooter. I can actually shoot a 1911 comparably to a double-stacked 9 but I will shoot better with the double stacked 9 vs the double stacked .45 almost every time (provided I have set it up to my liking).[/quote]
Everyone’s needs, abilities and preferences are unique, but I find it instructive that the top IDPA competitors gravitate towards 9 mm. Even the best shooters in the world are getting more rounds on target in a shorter period of time with 9mm.
What it doesn’t do well is compete in dick swinging contests with yahoos at your range or with your drunk cousin who believes a connection exists between big bores and big balls. I never get caught up in that, however, so I focus on what works best for me and my needs in a carry or home defense piece.
[quote]twojarslave wrote:
Everyone’s needs, abilities and preferences are unique, but I find it instructive that the top IDPA competitors gravitate towards 9 mm. Even the best shooters in the world are getting more rounds on target in a shorter period of time with 9mm.
What it doesn’t do well is compete in dick swinging contests with yahoos at your range or with your drunk cousin who believes a connection exists between big bores and big balls. I never get caught up in that, however, so I focus on what works best for me and my needs in a carry or home defense piece.[/quote]
There’s a big difference between what competition shooters look for in a gun and what a tactical/self defense guys looks for in a gun.
I shoot both IDPA and USPSA, and suck at both, but the USPSA courses of fire are more challenging and faster. Guy’s in IDPA don’t have to make major power factor for scoring and most guy’s who compete with a Glock 34 in IDPA do not carry one every day.
I’d look more at what pistol trainers, who focus on self-defense more than competition choose, which is the 9mm, not only for light recoil, but also for mag capacity, price of practice ammo, with similar performance when it comes to actually shooting somebody.
Just wanted to say I just spent the last week cleaning and inventorying my boss’s gun collection. 76 handguns and 160 or so rifles. It was quite a treat. Honestly learned quite a bit too.
On a side note I bought my first pistol the other day. Ruger single six that should be in soon. I’m using it mainly for plinking while I’m looking at a browning 380 or maybe a s+w 9mm for a higher caliber pistol to own.
Y’all should really read this from Doc. Gary Roberts. This is the guy the FBI has used for ever in determining bullet ballistics and such. Few if any have this guys level of bullet knowledge and expertise.
Basically it boils down to all modern handgun calibers considered “self defense” calibers do essentially the exact same thing in terms of penetration and expansion. ALL handgun rounds suck at stopping fights, compared to even the smallest of rifle rounds, so shot placement and multiple rounds ON TARGET read vitals- is paramount.
This seems like as good a group to ask as any, what do y’all recommend for a concealed carry holster? Generally speaking. Leather or Composite? Hip or behind the back? Open muzzle?
I know the popular response will be “Find what works for you!” And that’s real cute, but I ask because I want to know what works for you and why. Also, I don’t want to have to buy a bunch of holsters to try on. Around here the gun shops don’t usually have very wide selections, so I’ll probably have to order online.
Edited for brainfart
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
This seems like as good a group to ask as any, what do y’all recommend for a concealed carry holster? Generally speaking. Leather or Composite? Hip or behind the back? Open muzzle?
I know the popular response will be “Find what works for you!” And that’s real cute, but I ask because I want to know what works for you and why. Also, I don’t want to have to buy a bunch of holsters to try on. Around here the gun shops don’t usually have very wide selections, so I’ll probably have to order online.
Edited for brainfart[/quote]
As you alluded to already, I think that will be as subjective as one’s choice of firearm. I am of the opinion that your gun will be of no use if you don’t have it with you, so finding a rig that you will actually wear and use is important.
To that end, the holster that gets the most use by me is a Remora with a S&W M&P Shield in 9mm. It is an IWB (inside the waistband) holster with no belt clips, instead relying on a sticky material and tension from your belt to hold it in place.
It is not the most secure holster out there, but it gets the most use by me because it is EASY. I store my Shield in my quick-access safe with the holster, so I just take it out, stuff it in my waistband at 3:30 and I’m off. Shorts and a t-shirt is all I need to conceal. It literally takes about one second to put on and it works with any outfit in my wardrobe. No need to dress around the Shield in a Remora.
I wouldn’t do cartwheels or play basketball with this rig, but the retention is plenty secure for normal activity.
The Remora is also very thin, so it adds little to total thickness of the already thin Shield. This makes it very, very comfortable to wear.
These factors add up to make it my go-to rig because it is EASY and comfortable.
If I know I will be out and about all day I might go with my Glock 19 paired with a Galco Summer Comfort leather IWB holster. The weight is about the same as the Shield, but the THICKNESS is much, much greater and very noticeable to me. It will also print some with a t-shirt.
At some point I want to get a hybrid holster for the Shield to serve as an all-day holster with a bit more retention than the Remora. These hybrids seem very intriguing to me. They have leather backing and a kydex sheath. They are supposed to be very comfortable and conceal very well.
Lots of options out there. I like IWB. In Virginia you may want to consider OWB, which may be more comfortable in the heat. Ankle holsters, belly bands, and shoulder rigs are other popular choices.
Be prepared to buy some holsters that you don’t end up using. It is part of the process.
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
This seems like as good a group to ask as any, what do y’all recommend for a concealed carry holster? Generally speaking. Leather or Composite? Hip or behind the back? Open muzzle?
Edited for brainfart[/quote]
I forgot to address a few things here. As stated, I carry IWB at about the 3:30-4:00 position, holster already covered above. This position conceals very well, provides a fast draw and is very comfortable when sitting down, especially in the car. The disadvantage is that it is not easily accessible when sitting or lying down, but with a bit of contortion I can still draw it when seated in my car with a seatbelt on.
I would caution against behind-the-back (or sometimes referred to as small-of-back). One can easily find themselves on their back in a struggle with another person. Under more mundane circumstances, people fall. Falling backwards with a chunk of metal strapped to the base of your spine can produce some unpleasant injuries.
I have never had any issues with covering the muzzle. I just check my holsters for lint and/or other material periodically. I don’t think open muzzle would produce any problems for me either.