For the AK afficianados amongst us
[quote]pat wrote:
Sure there are plenty of effective rounds for hand guns. Thatās not the point. The point is just coolness, to shoot a full sized 5.56 nato from a hand gun. I donāt think velocity is as much of an issue as accuracy. But if you need to be accurate 300 yards away, then you get the rifle anyway.
Thereās no need for it, per se. It would just be fun, which is really the only point since I am not really interested in popping a cap in anyoneās ass.
If you just want a serviceable do it all gun then a .357 Mag is more than enough for any occasion.
The point is, it would be fun. Thatās all. [/quote]
You know, if you really wanted one of these bad enough, you could probably have a gunsmith make another cylinder for the 223 and rebarrel a large frame revolver.
ā¦Actually I did some googling and Taurus has a 10" barreled revolver out there in 223.
[quote]pat wrote:
If you just want a serviceable do it all gun then a .357 Mag is more than enough for any occasion. [/quote]
Really?? well aint that some broscienceā¦lol 357 āmagnumā are generally 6 rounders. this is hardly āmore than enoughā for any occasion. If it were, cops, citizens and military around the globe would still be carrying them as duty pistols. They arentā¦
.357 āmagnumā has 50% more recoil than a 9mm. 9mm of course being .355. caliber. This means slower, less accurate follow up shots. As we all should acknowledge, shot placement is critical and often times the number of well placed shot mean the difference in stopping a threat. Each bullet also has a similar ft/lb energy and generally both penertrate 12-18". So given they produce the same hole size in a fucker, penetrate the same, and knowing that ALL HANDGUN calibers generally SUCK at stopping threats, one would be foolish to play into this āmagnumā ultra death round thing people claim but I digressā¦
I will add that everyone I have ever known, trains with their 357 with freaking 38 special AND they train with the hammer manually cocked for the crisp, light trigger pull. They get used to how it performs and āsaveā the 357 for ābad guysā , well then they shoot the 357 and holy fuck that recoil is different and that sweet trigger pull turns into 9-11 pounds and they canāt hit shit. Not to mention the stress factor and moving / shooting in an actual confrontation. Oh, and God help you if you have to reloadā¦
This is from Dr. Gary Roberts. This guys knows more about bullet ballistics than probably anyone on the planet. This is a wealth of information here. Enjoy.
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
If you just want a serviceable do it all gun then a .357 Mag is more than enough for any occasion. [/quote]
Really?? well aint that some broscienceā¦lol 357 āmagnumā are generally 6 rounders. this is hardly āmore than enoughā for any occasion. If it were, cops, citizens and military around the globe would still be carrying them as duty pistols. They arentā¦
.357 āmagnumā has 50% more recoil than a 9mm. 9mm of course being .355. caliber. This means slower, less accurate follow up shots. As we all should acknowledge, shot placement is critical and often times the number of well placed shot mean the difference in stopping a threat. Each bullet also has a similar ft/lb energy and generally both penertrate 12-18". So given they produce the same hole size in a fucker, penetrate the same, and knowing that ALL HANDGUN calibers generally SUCK at stopping threats, one would be foolish to play into this āmagnumā ultra death round thing people claim but I digressā¦
I will add that everyone I have ever known, trains with their 357 with freaking 38 special AND they train with the hammer manually cocked for the crisp, light trigger pull. They get used to how it performs and āsaveā the 357 for ābad guysā , well then they shoot the 357 and holy fuck that recoil is different and that sweet trigger pull turns into 9-11 pounds and they canāt hit shit. Not to mention the stress factor and moving / shooting in an actual confrontation. Oh, and God help you if you have to reloadā¦
This is from Dr. Gary Roberts. This guys knows more about bullet ballistics than probably anyone on the planet. This is a wealth of information here. Enjoy.
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/[/quote]
I agree with most of this post.
However, where did you get your figures that 9mm and 357 mag have similar ft/lbs of energy?
383 vs 550 ft/lbs.
I have a Taurus .357, 8 shot, with a 10 inch barrel. The thing is huge and heavy, but soooo fun to shoot as the recoil is about nonexistent.
[quote]theuofh wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Sure there are plenty of effective rounds for hand guns. Thatās not the point. The point is just coolness, to shoot a full sized 5.56 nato from a hand gun. I donāt think velocity is as much of an issue as accuracy. But if you need to be accurate 300 yards away, then you get the rifle anyway.
Thereās no need for it, per se. It would just be fun, which is really the only point since I am not really interested in popping a cap in anyoneās ass.
If you just want a serviceable do it all gun then a .357 Mag is more than enough for any occasion.
The point is, it would be fun. Thatās all. [/quote]
You know, if you really wanted one of these bad enough, you could probably have a gunsmith make another cylinder for the 223 and rebarrel a large frame revolver.
ā¦Actually I did some googling and Taurus has a 10" barreled revolver out there in 223.
[/quote]
Well if I had the dough, I might employ a custom gum maker to do just that. Apparently Rock Island Armory had thought of something similar, not quite a full sized round, but the spirit is there:
http://us.armscor.com/products/tcm-22-vz-fullsize
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
If you just want a serviceable do it all gun then a .357 Mag is more than enough for any occasion. [/quote]
Really?? well aint that some broscienceā¦lol 357 āmagnumā are generally 6 rounders. this is hardly āmore than enoughā for any occasion. If it were, cops, citizens and military around the globe would still be carrying them as duty pistols. They arentā¦
.357 āmagnumā has 50% more recoil than a 9mm. 9mm of course being .355. caliber. This means slower, less accurate follow up shots. As we all should acknowledge, shot placement is critical and often times the number of well placed shot mean the difference in stopping a threat. Each bullet also has a similar ft/lb energy and generally both penertrate 12-18". So given they produce the same hole size in a fucker, penetrate the same, and knowing that ALL HANDGUN calibers generally SUCK at stopping threats, one would be foolish to play into this āmagnumā ultra death round thing people claim but I digressā¦
I will add that everyone I have ever known, trains with their 357 with freaking 38 special AND they train with the hammer manually cocked for the crisp, light trigger pull. They get used to how it performs and āsaveā the 357 for ābad guysā , well then they shoot the 357 and holy fuck that recoil is different and that sweet trigger pull turns into 9-11 pounds and they canāt hit shit. Not to mention the stress factor and moving / shooting in an actual confrontation. Oh, and God help you if you have to reloadā¦
This is from Dr. Gary Roberts. This guys knows more about bullet ballistics than probably anyone on the planet. This is a wealth of information here. Enjoy.
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/[/quote]
And the .357 Magnum was carried by law enforcement for decades, way longer than the 9, 40 or 45.
Besides that I think you missed the point entirely and completely as it was a follow up to a completely different conversation. We damn sure werenāt talking about going into combat. It might have been bro-science had I made a scientific claim. I was talking about guns for enjoyment, not taking out the Vietcong.
[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
If you just want a serviceable do it all gun then a .357 Mag is more than enough for any occasion. [/quote]
Really?? well aint that some broscienceā¦lol 357 āmagnumā are generally 6 rounders. this is hardly āmore than enoughā for any occasion. If it were, cops, citizens and military around the globe would still be carrying them as duty pistols. They arentā¦
.357 āmagnumā has 50% more recoil than a 9mm. 9mm of course being .355. caliber. This means slower, less accurate follow up shots. As we all should acknowledge, shot placement is critical and often times the number of well placed shot mean the difference in stopping a threat. Each bullet also has a similar ft/lb energy and generally both penertrate 12-18". So given they produce the same hole size in a fucker, penetrate the same, and knowing that ALL HANDGUN calibers generally SUCK at stopping threats, one would be foolish to play into this āmagnumā ultra death round thing people claim but I digressā¦
I will add that everyone I have ever known, trains with their 357 with freaking 38 special AND they train with the hammer manually cocked for the crisp, light trigger pull. They get used to how it performs and āsaveā the 357 for ābad guysā , well then they shoot the 357 and holy fuck that recoil is different and that sweet trigger pull turns into 9-11 pounds and they canāt hit shit. Not to mention the stress factor and moving / shooting in an actual confrontation. Oh, and God help you if you have to reloadā¦
This is from Dr. Gary Roberts. This guys knows more about bullet ballistics than probably anyone on the planet. This is a wealth of information here. Enjoy.
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/[/quote]
I agree with most of this post.
However, where did you get your figures that 9mm and 357 mag have similar ft/lbs of energy?
383 vs 550 ft/lbs.
[/quote]
Actually itās about 360 vs. 700. The energy between a 9 and a 357 arenāt even close. If you had to choose, youād want to be shot by a 9, unless youād rather not live.
[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
I agree with most of this post.
However, where did you get your figures that 9mm and 357 mag have similar ft/lbs of energy?
383 vs 550 ft/lbs. [/quote]
Pick any brand of ammo and compare the ballistics. What youāll find is that nearly all handgun calibers that are of size to be considered self defense rounds,ie some .380, 9mm, 357 sig, 357 mag,.40, .45 acp etc, each have a similar ft/lb of energy, generally within 100-200 ft/lb ballpark of each other. Sure you can take a low number of one brand and compare to a high number of another but itās still in the same ballpark. 200ft/lb is a negligible amount of difference, especially considering that an AR/AK round is bangin in the 1200-1500 ft/lb area and a .308 is coming in at 2600-2900ft/lb. Hell, even grand dads good ol 20 gauge shotgun shooting a slug is TWICE as powerful as a .44 magnum handgun.
All handgun rounds simply poke holes in things and make them bleed. In the end, mission dictates gear. Just donāt get caught up in the minutia of calibers, itās a waste of time, like getting caught up in a āCCā debate about sportbikes, but some people like to remain ignorant of the facts and argue mundane points.
edit - CHECK THIS OUT. PRETTY COOL
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
If you just want a serviceable do it all gun then a .357 Mag is more than enough for any occasion. [/quote]
Really?? well aint that some broscienceā¦lol 357 āmagnumā are generally 6 rounders. this is hardly āmore than enoughā for any occasion. If it were, cops, citizens and military around the globe would still be carrying them as duty pistols. They arentā¦
.357 āmagnumā has 50% more recoil than a 9mm. 9mm of course being .355. caliber. This means slower, less accurate follow up shots. As we all should acknowledge, shot placement is critical and often times the number of well placed shot mean the difference in stopping a threat. Each bullet also has a similar ft/lb energy and generally both penertrate 12-18". So given they produce the same hole size in a fucker, penetrate the same, and knowing that ALL HANDGUN calibers generally SUCK at stopping threats, one would be foolish to play into this āmagnumā ultra death round thing people claim but I digressā¦
I will add that everyone I have ever known, trains with their 357 with freaking 38 special AND they train with the hammer manually cocked for the crisp, light trigger pull. They get used to how it performs and āsaveā the 357 for ābad guysā , well then they shoot the 357 and holy fuck that recoil is different and that sweet trigger pull turns into 9-11 pounds and they canāt hit shit. Not to mention the stress factor and moving / shooting in an actual confrontation. Oh, and God help you if you have to reloadā¦
This is from Dr. Gary Roberts. This guys knows more about bullet ballistics than probably anyone on the planet. This is a wealth of information here. Enjoy.
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/[/quote]
I agree with most of this post.
However, where did you get your figures that 9mm and 357 mag have similar ft/lbs of energy?
383 vs 550 ft/lbs.
[/quote]
Actually itās about 360 vs. 700. The energy between a 9 and a 357 arenāt even close. If you had to choose, youād want to be shot by a 9, unless youād rather not live.[/quote]
I would prefer not to get shot in general. However, given a choice of taking a bullet bring on the 9!!!
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
I agree with most of this post.
However, where did you get your figures that 9mm and 357 mag have similar ft/lbs of energy?
383 vs 550 ft/lbs. [/quote]
Pick any brand of ammo and compare the ballistics. What youāll find is that nearly all handgun calibers that are of size to be considered self defense rounds,ie some .380, 9mm, 357 sig, 357 mag,.40, .45 acp etc, each have a similar ft/lb of energy, generally within 100-200 ft/lb ballpark of each other. Sure you can take a low number of one brand and compare to a high number of another but itās still in the same ballpark. 200ft/lb is a negligible amount of difference, especially considering that an AR/AK round is bangin in the 1200-1500 ft/lb area and a .308 is coming in at 2600-2900ft/lb. Hell, even grand dads good ol 20 gauge shotgun shooting a slug is TWICE as powerful as a .44 magnum handgun.
All handgun rounds simply poke holes in things and make them bleed. In the end, mission dictates gear. Just donāt get caught up in the minutia of calibers, itās a waste of time, like getting caught up in a āCCā debate about sportbikes, but some people like to remain ignorant of the facts and argue mundane points.
edit - CHECK THIS OUT. PRETTY COOL
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/index.html[/quote]
Youāre preaching to the choir man. Iāve shot many a wild critter with a handgun in the vitals and it took much longer than I expected to die.
[quote]Bauber wrote:
I have a Taurus .357, 8 shot, with a 10 inch barrel. The thing is huge and heavy, but soooo fun to shoot as the recoil is about nonexistent. [/quote]
Iāve been debating if I want something like that for hunting or just going with an auto 10mm. I think I could get a better scope on the revolver, especially if it has one of the long barrels, and actually be able to take some game at a bit of a distance.
[quote]theuofh wrote:
[quote]Bauber wrote:
I have a Taurus .357, 8 shot, with a 10 inch barrel. The thing is huge and heavy, but soooo fun to shoot as the recoil is about nonexistent. [/quote]
Iāve been debating if I want something like that for hunting or just going with an auto 10mm. I think I could get a better scope on the revolver, especially if it has one of the long barrels, and actually be able to take some gun at a bit of a distance.[/quote]
I was helping a buddy mount a red dot on a 44mag for hunting. He was damn sure he right. I was a little skeptical.
First shot the scope does a backflip off the rib and flies about 10 feet! lol
[quote]theuofh wrote:
[quote]Bauber wrote:
I have a Taurus .357, 8 shot, with a 10 inch barrel. The thing is huge and heavy, but soooo fun to shoot as the recoil is about nonexistent. [/quote]
Iāve been debating if I want something like that for hunting or just going with an auto 10mm. I think I could get a better scope on the revolver, especially if it has one of the long barrels, and actually be able to take some game at a bit of a distance.[/quote]
I have a 10mm glock and the 357 with the 10 inch barrel definitely puts it to shame in the accuracy from a distance.
That being said, I prefer my 10mm for big game hunting as my backup. Hard to beat 15 rounds of 10mm when needed in a close quarters pinch.
[quote]Bauber wrote:
[quote]theuofh wrote:
[quote]Bauber wrote:
I have a Taurus .357, 8 shot, with a 10 inch barrel. The thing is huge and heavy, but soooo fun to shoot as the recoil is about nonexistent. [/quote]
Iāve been debating if I want something like that for hunting or just going with an auto 10mm. I think I could get a better scope on the revolver, especially if it has one of the long barrels, and actually be able to take some game at a bit of a distance.[/quote]
I have a 10mm glock and the 357 with the 10 inch barrel definitely puts it to shame in the accuracy from a distance.
That being said, I prefer my 10mm for big game hunting as my backup. Hard to beat 15 rounds of 10mm when needed in a close quarters pinch.[/quote]
Well, I am no hunter, but Iād think youād want a .44 or .500 mag for a back up in big game situations, wouldnāt you? 10 mm is a fine round, but itās about equivalent to a .40. I guess it depends on whether you prefer fire power or quantity. Iād think Iād want something that puts it down with a single round. Or you can carry both and keep shooting.
I have heard the stories on using the smaller, lower powered calibers on a bear only to have the bear more pissed off.
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
I agree with most of this post.
However, where did you get your figures that 9mm and 357 mag have similar ft/lbs of energy?
383 vs 550 ft/lbs. [/quote]
Pick any brand of ammo and compare the ballistics. What youāll find is that nearly all handgun calibers that are of size to be considered self defense rounds,ie some .380, 9mm, 357 sig, 357 mag,.40, .45 acp etc, each have a similar ft/lb of energy, generally within 100-200 ft/lb ballpark of each other. Sure you can take a low number of one brand and compare to a high number of another but itās still in the same ballpark. 200ft/lb is a negligible amount of difference, especially considering that an AR/AK round is bangin in the 1200-1500 ft/lb area and a .308 is coming in at 2600-2900ft/lb. Hell, even grand dads good ol 20 gauge shotgun shooting a slug is TWICE as powerful as a .44 magnum handgun.
All handgun rounds simply poke holes in things and make them bleed. In the end, mission dictates gear. Just donāt get caught up in the minutia of calibers, itās a waste of time, like getting caught up in a āCCā debate about sportbikes, but some people like to remain ignorant of the facts and argue mundane points.
edit - CHECK THIS OUT. PRETTY COOL
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/index.html[/quote]
100-200 ft/lbs is a huge difference. And yes you can get 9 MM rounds that compare to standard .357 rounds. But a standard 9 mm compared with a standard .357, the 200 ft/lbs of energy is a big difference. And a +P+ 9 mm compared with a +P+ .357 is a simlilar huge difference.
I carry either .357 or a 9 loaded with Buffalo bore +P+ ammo, so I do get similar power from either weapon. I have a compact .357, so I donāt go over 125 grain generally because it kicks like a mule with anything bigger. 158 grain .357 magnum is borderline intolerable. I donāt even want to try 180 grain in that gun.
I have been thinking of upgrading to a slightly larger .357 mag, but I love my little 3 in SP101. It would be hard to let go. But the 4 in GP100 is only a little bigger and is easier to shoot. Itās hard to let go of something you love though, but I couldnāt justify adding a gun, it would only make sense to replace it. I put an 8 lbs spring in my SP101 and that made it sweet to shoot. Plus if you are accurate with that gun, you can be accurate with anything.
[quote]theuofh wrote:
[quote]Bauber wrote:
I have a Taurus .357, 8 shot, with a 10 inch barrel. The thing is huge and heavy, but soooo fun to shoot as the recoil is about nonexistent. [/quote]
Iāve been debating if I want something like that for hunting or just going with an auto 10mm. I think I could get a better scope on the revolver, especially if it has one of the long barrels, and actually be able to take some game at a bit of a distance.[/quote]
This would getāer done.
.
[quote]pat wrote:
Well, I am no hunter, but Iād think youād want a .44 or .500 mag for a back up in big game situations, wouldnāt you? 10 mm is a fine round, but itās about equivalent to a .40. I guess it depends on whether you prefer fire power or quantity. Iād think Iād want something that puts it down with a single round. Or you can carry both and keep shooting.
I have heard the stories on using the smaller, lower powered calibers on a bear only to have the bear more pissed off. [/quote]
I live in OH, not Alaska or Montana, so Iām thinking deer and not mad grizzly bears or charging moose. My backup gun would probably be a 22 in case a squirrel thinks I got too close to his nuts.
They just put out new regulations for hunting with straight walled cartridges and its legal now to take deer with 38 special or 45 acp out of a carbine or lever gun.
Either way, I share the opinion that revolvers belong in museums, are hard to shoot, especially in a self-defense situations, and with the availability of 10mm glocks, I donāt need to go wheel gun route for a legitimate handgun for deer. Still, it might be fun to have one.
[quote]theuofh wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Well, I am no hunter, but Iād think youād want a .44 or .500 mag for a back up in big game situations, wouldnāt you? 10 mm is a fine round, but itās about equivalent to a .40. I guess it depends on whether you prefer fire power or quantity. Iād think Iād want something that puts it down with a single round. Or you can carry both and keep shooting.
I have heard the stories on using the smaller, lower powered calibers on a bear only to have the bear more pissed off. [/quote]
I live in OH, not Alaska or Montana, so Iām thinking deer and not mad grizzly bears or charging moose. My backup gun would probably be a 22 in case a squirrel thinks I got too close to his nuts.
They just put out new regulations for hunting with straight walled cartridges and its legal now to take deer with 38 special or 45 acp out of a carbine or lever gun.
Either way, I share the opinion that revolvers belong in museums, are hard to shoot, especially in a self-defense situations, and with the availability of 10mm glocks, I donāt need to go wheel gun route for a legitimate handgun for deer. Still, it might be fun to have one.
[/quote]
Oh hell no! I love revolvers. Ironically I own mostly automatics, but I would only give my .357 up for another revolver. If I donāt get a rifle next, it will be a revolver. I want a 44 mag, but I have run across some .357 packages that are hard to resist. I donāt know. I am good on guns at the moment, but when I get some spare cash and am ready for my next purchase itās going to be a wheel gun all the way.
I love my semi-autos and my favorite is definitely my 1911, but the revolver has a special place in my heart. Of all my guns I keep it the most perfect. Itās like a shiny little jewel. I love to buff it and clean every nook and cranny.
Itās also a great dry-fire practice gun. You can dry fire it as much as you like with out fear of damage. I carry my 357 as much as I carry the 9. It depends on my mood.
I donāt know, when you fire a well made revolver, thereās something special about it.