[quote]jj-dude wrote:
I’m saying that the public perception that it is an inalienable right is at odds with the legal system.
– jj[/quote]
Why do I feel like this is really the case with all our rights these days?
JJ,
I think the case you describe to be an extreme one, and that is being generous.
I realize that there are some aggressive prosecutors out there, shit the guy who prosecuted me threatened all sorts of shit since he came from a small district and had the chance to potentially indict the a bunch of guys from LA, including an LAPD cop. Guys like this are trying to make a name for themselves, most are looking to end up sitting on the bench themselves, or get into politics.
Prosecutors are allowed to try all sorts of scandalous shit, that has been the case since the beginning of time, it is up to your lawyer to tell him to fuck off with it.
People need to stop thinking they are lawyers when they end up needing one, the DIY approach to legal defense is a guarantee to a long prison sentence. I think the case where you mention the judoka, he probably should not have bragged about beating the shit out of his attacker, and just described it as defending himself after being attacked with a knife.
No offense, but after some of the stories you have mentioned, I think you have some shitty luck.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
JJ,
I think the case you describe to be an extreme one, and that is being generous.
I realize that there are some aggressive prosecutors out there, shit the guy who prosecuted me threatened all sorts of shit since he came from a small district and had the chance to potentially indict the a bunch of guys from LA, including an LAPD cop. Guys like this are trying to make a name for themselves, most are looking to end up sitting on the bench themselves, or get into politics.
Prosecutors are allowed to try all sorts of scandalous shit, that has been the case since the beginning of time, it is up to your lawyer to tell him to fuck off with it.
People need to stop thinking they are lawyers when they end up needing one, the DIY approach to legal defense is a guarantee to a long prison sentence. I think the case where you mention the judoka, he probably should not have bragged about beating the shit out of his attacker, and just described it as defending himself after being attacked with a knife.
No offense, but after some of the stories you have mentioned, I think you have some shitty luck.
[/quote]
My martial arts instructor told us it was best not to talk with the cops. He is not a lawyer and neither am I. A class on firearms for self-defense told me to keep it simple. “he/she was going to murder me and I had to defend myself”. “I want to cooperate with the investigation but want to speak with a lawyer first”.
JJ was quite right with the publics view of self-defense. It usually goes like this " he was being an asshole and I defended myself". Most do not realize bad manners or being impolite does not mean you get to kick ass and take names.
Be safe
[quote]hkd wrote:
Most do not realize bad manners or being impolite does not mean you get to kick ass and take names.
Be safe[/quote]
yeah…but boy should it. Bring back dueling. Seriously, if somebody’s asshole manners meant you could legally beat his ass there would be far fewer asswipes in the world and public life much more enjoyable .
Dueling would be great. Too many people have gotten used to the idea that running your mouth has no consequences. I see it in bars all the time. JMHO that if mutual combat was legal that we would see a lot of fights right away. Then it might transition into more polite society. I am thinking hand to hand duels/fights more than guns or knives.
I think I am just a little fed up with what seems to me like a lack of manners in society these days. Anyway way off the gun control topic. I will let it go now.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]hkd wrote:
Most do not realize bad manners or being impolite does not mean you get to kick ass and take names.
Be safe[/quote]
yeah…but boy should it. Bring back dueling. Seriously, if somebody’s asshole manners meant you could legally beat his ass there would be far fewer asswipes in the world and public life much more enjoyable .[/quote]
I am opposed to dueling with guns as I feel it would be too easy to circumvent the rules and achieve success 
We need fucking sword fights. Where the hell did that go? Not only would this absolutely kick some serious ass to watch it would give me a good reason to learn how to use a sword. Gun fights are boring as shit one on one to watch. If we are bringing this back let’s make it swords. I just may start going out to bars more often in my older age if I get the chance to watch some good sword fighting.
[quote]hkd wrote:
Then it might transition into more polite society. I am thinking hand to hand duels/fights more than guns or knives.
[/quote]
Based on past history the answer is no. All it means is that those who can fight are free to have bad manners. The strong do what they can and the weak submit.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]hkd wrote:
Then it might transition into more polite society. I am thinking hand to hand duels/fights more than guns or knives.
[/quote]
Based on past history the answer is no. All it means is that those who can fight are free to have bad manners. The strong do what they can and the weak submit. [/quote]
Goddamn that evolution !
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]hkd wrote:
Most do not realize bad manners or being impolite does not mean you get to kick ass and take names.
Be safe[/quote]
yeah…but boy should it. Bring back dueling. Seriously, if somebody’s asshole manners meant you could legally beat his ass there would be far fewer asswipes in the world and public life much more enjoyable .[/quote]
I am opposed to dueling with guns as I feel it would be too easy to circumvent the rules and achieve success
We need fucking sword fights. Where the hell did that go? Not only would this absolutely kick some serious ass to watch it would give me a good reason to learn how to use a sword. Gun fights are boring as shit one on one to watch. If we are bringing this back let’s make it swords. I just may start going out to bars more often in my older age if I get the chance to watch some good sword fighting. [/quote]
Yup, I’m down with that! Give me a reason to use my collection haha.
Seriously though, I’m still down with hands only fights as well. I mean that was still pretty standard fair even 50 years ago. References and scenes from Hollywood such as The Caine Mutiny’s ‘i’ll be outside if you want to do anything about it’, and others as well as most old timer’s memories speak to the (relative) social acceptability of it.
No lawsuits, no felony assault charges for a fucking fist fight, no glassings. You sacked up and either apologized or dealt with your black eye and public humiliation.
That works if, if, you can beat the person.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
That works if, if, you can beat the person. [/quote]
No man.
Mutual, mutual
Not “the strong do WHATEVER they want”.
Consider the words “meet me outside” to be kind of like a standardized verbal contract similar to a professional fighter might sign. Not completely rewriting the legal system so that random skullbashing replaces shit talking
[quote]squating_bear wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
That works if, if, you can beat the person. [/quote]
No man.
Mutual, mutual
Not “the strong do WHATEVER they want”.
Consider the words “meet me outside” to be kind of like a standardized verbal contract similar to a professional fighter might sign. Not completely rewriting the legal system so that random skullbashing replaces shit talking[/quote]
Telling someone to step outside works if you can beat the other person. The way people post here they seem to forget that in a fight the other person might, believe it or not, fight back…better. Of course everyone is Chuck Norris on the internet.
It is wishful thinking on my part to hope that right and might would win over wrong and strong. As Z said more than likely it would be beatings instead of “settling it outside”. Meet me outside seems like it should be a verbal/agreement but at least in Colorado mutual combat will still get you arrested. It just changes from assault type charge to disorderly conduct.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]squating_bear wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
That works if, if, you can beat the person. [/quote]
No man.
Mutual, mutual
Not “the strong do WHATEVER they want”.
Consider the words “meet me outside” to be kind of like a standardized verbal contract similar to a professional fighter might sign. Not completely rewriting the legal system so that random skullbashing replaces shit talking[/quote]
Telling someone to step outside works if you can beat the other person. The way people post here they seem to forget that in a fight the other person might, believe it or not, fight back…better. Of course everyone is Chuck Norris on the internet. [/quote]
Doesn’t matter and not the point. The point was that you at least have to make the asshole think he might have a chance to pay in physical pain and humiliation if he acts like the selfish prick he is. Not that you’re guaranteed to win. Would it fix everything? No, but NOTHING WILL. It would, however, at least encourage people to think that acting like an uncivilized boor would possibly carry consequences and that the cops aren’t going to be on your side should you decide to sue or charge with assault because you lost.
The other primary point was nobody gets felony assault or criminal records for a mutually agreed upon fight–you don’t ruin your future career or life because of a damn fist fight of all things. The legal system is already overflowing because of stupid shit.
So, chance (not guarantee to win) to fight back and put said stupid person in line, combined with not having the cops haul you off to jail for a damn punch.
COming for MA next I hope.