LJ,
We’ve got the recipe book coming out with LOTS of ways. For a quick preview of the types of recipes you’ll find, check out this link at my site…
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/recipes/index.htm
(And register for the newsletter - we’ll let ya know as soon as the book is out).
Brand of fish oil…
I’ve got a JB approved section on my site here with lots of supplements and what I think of 'em…
Major Dan,
There’s some history here…Check out these articles to get caught up…
Massive Eating 1
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460331
Massive Eating 2
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460327
Massive Eating Reloaded 1
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459429
Massive Eating Reloaded 2
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459431
Massive Eating Defense text
Lately, I’ve seen numerous individuals discounting the approach–which has worked for many–because of the fact that “fat doesn’t need insulin to be stored-- it can store itself.” Because of this, I decided to write this article, and within its contents, I will attempt to address the above point along with a few others.
Massive Eating and Fat Storage
First off, let me just say that the “fat can store itself” argument is only addressing one particular aspect of combining nutrients in said fashion. If limiting acute fat storage were the only reason to avoid meals containing both large amounts of carbohydrates and fats, then I may not be such a proponent of doing so. And I don’t think John’s advocacy of ME is based on that premise alone either; however, this seems to be the facet that people harp on and end up coming to the conclusion that “it doesn’t matter” or that “it’s stupid” or that “it makes no sense” or that “it’s pointless” to avoid the combination of fats and carbohydrates. Well, acute fat storage aside, there are many reasons why I see it beneficial to combine nutrients as stated and because of these reasons, I advocate that all my clients eat in this fashion.
But let’s back track and cover acute fat storage for a minute. Yes, due to the phospholipid bilayer of adipocytes, fat can store itself without insulin. Similarly, many other nutrients (creatine, amino acids, etc) can be stored without insulin because of various non-insulin dependant storage pathways. Still, in almost every situation, if you add insulin, you will increase acute nutrient storage (this is a good thing when speaking of nutrients such as creatine and amino acids, but a bad thing when talking about fat); fatty acids are no exception. Short chain and medium chain fatty acids can readily diffuse across the cell membrane; however, long chain fatty acids (LCFAs) rely on facilitated diffusion or “active transport” in order to cross. The fatty acid transfer proteins FAT/CD36 and FATP1 (responsible for the transport of LCFAs across the cell membrane) are mainly located inside the cell, but in the presence of insulin they are “translocated” to the cell membrane. This insulin induced translocation has been shown to increase the uptake of LCFAs in the adipocyte (1).
You may counter the above with the fact that ketogenic diets-- diets in which insulin is low all the time-- show no benefit (from a fat loss perspective) over lower fat, higher carb diets with matching protein intakes. So why then would a diet that limits insulin only part of the time be more beneficial? If the above held water, then limiting insulin all the time (instead of just part of the time) should lead to greater fat loss. And to that I would bring mention to the hormone leptin-- a hormone in which circulating levels are highly associated with that of insulin. Leptin is a regulatory hormone that communicates with the hypothalamus, and basically gives the body the “yea” or “nay” to utilize adipose tissue for energy. Under normal conditions, leptin is abundant and is freely binding to its associated receptors; the receptors then send a message to the brain to assure it that things are in good shape. Now, when dieting (especially with diets in which insulin levels are chronically low), leptin levels are low and consequently there isn’t as much binding occurring; the receptors recognize this and inform the brain as to what is going on. From there, the brain begins to send out various regulatory signals to the rest of the body, causing a decrease in thyroid output and metabolic rate and an increase in the catabolic hormone cortisol and also appetite. So, having low levels of circulating insulin day in and day out can actually be detrimental to fat loss, which is the reason why I believe ketogenic diets do not show additional benefit to their higher carb counterparts. Does that mean that keto diets don’t work? No, it just means that there may be a better way to approach things. Going back to ME, we limit insulin at certain times of the day, which can be beneficial to fat loss, but at the same time we are consuming carbohydrates on a daily basis (again at specific, strategic times of the day, and I’ll talk about that next) which may help to stabilize leptin levels in the long term. Reason being, with ME the longest you will go without giving substantial rise to insulin is 12-16 hours, while with a keto diet you may go days, weeks, or even months with low levels of insulin; a scenario which will undoubtedly have an impact on leptin and ultimately fat loss.
Massive Eating and Nutrient Timing
Next, as alluded to earlier, we need to consider optimal nutrient timing around activity and normal metabolic patterns, which will play into several other factors. This is probably the major reason I advocate the ME approach. After a workout, muscle tissue is longing to suck up nutrients and is the only time of the day where maximizing insulin is both okay and desirable. So, during your workout and the few hours following, P+C meals are the way to go. Including fat in these meals would simply slow gastric emptying (and consequently the rate at which nutrients are delivered to muscle tissue), which at this particular time is undesirable. By consuming all your carbohydrates during your workout and within the few hours following, you are forced to consume other nutrients at other times of the day. This is when you make the switch to P+F meals, which again only makes sense. As metabolism slows in the evening, insulin is being controlled via P+F meals. Also, at other times of the day when you don’t necessarily “need” insulin, it is being limited. This means you still are able to consume a large amount of carbohydrates daily, but at the same time you are limiting insulin during a good portion of the day resulting in more time spent in a lipolytic state at the end of said day. In the long term, this leads to greater insulin sensitivity and lipolysis without compromising results. You are still eating plenty of carbohydrates to promote growth and/or maintenance of LBM, but you only consume them when your body is primed for an insulin rush. When it isn’t, you are managing insulin with P+F meals.
Also, on a related note, splitting a day’s worth of carbohydrates over 3 meals instead of 6 will cause higher peaks and lower valleys in both insulin and blood sugar throughout the course of the day. In the 6 meal example, both insulin and blood sugar remain rather stable, never peaking very high, and never dropping very low. Generally, one would consider stabilizing insulin and blood sugar the more optimal approach; however, a closer look may unveil that a large amount of the success many experience with ME may be a result of these “spikes” and “dips.” How so? Well, a high spike in insulin is very advantageous when it comes to metabolic upregulation in the brain, and theoretically, it should offer the benefit of strongly stimulating neurological signals (and consequently hormonal changes) that are dependent on a relatively high physiological concentration of insulin. With the 6 meal approach, insulin probably never peaks to the degree necessary to optimally stimulate the metabolism. But wont large insulin spikes simply cause more fat to be stored, canceling out any metabolic benefits? Beings that the “spikes” are limited to times of the day when partitioning is optimized (around workouts and/or in the morning), I don’t see this being an issue.
Similarly, the “dip” associated with ME has its own set of benefits. We all know that insulin hampers lipolysis due to its inhibitory effect on enzymes responsible for fat mobilization. With ME, the period of time between carbohydrate feedings is lengthened, leading to a greater amount of time spent outside of the influence of insulin. This lipolytic state is further enhanced by what was mentioned previously-- the fact that we are optimally stimulating the metabolism with periodic insulin spikes. A higher metabolic rate while in a lipolytic state will ultimately lead to more fat being burned while in that state.
The above “spike/dip” phenomenon is probably the major reason/explanation for the fact that almost everyone who switches over to ME notices an immediate increase in their maintenance calorie intake.
So, acute fat storage aside, there are at least 5 other reasons to combine nutrients in this fashion:
optimal nutrient timing around activity
optimal nutrient timing around normal metabolic patterns
improvements in long term insulin sensitivity
the ability to consume plenty of carbohydrates while still managing insulin
metabolic and lipolytic benefits of the “spike/dip” phenomenon
Lastly, when attempting to prove or disprove the efficacy of a given method, real world results must be considered. Science can only prove and disprove so much, and sometimes what happens in the real world cannot be explained by science. Above I have attempted to give some scientific credibility to the idea of not combining carbohydrates and fats in significant amounts, but I’m sure someone can respond to every single point I made with a counter argument and numerous peer reviewed journal abstracts to boot. This topic can be theoretically debated forever without a victor ever emerging. But what cannot be debated are the positive results that many have experienced by utilizing the ME approach. Tell me it “doesn’t matter” all you want, but I have noticed the beneficial effects first hand in both my own life and in the lives of my clients. What have I noticed? My maintenance caloric intake went up by 600 calories immediately upon implementing ME; you can’t argue that. I can now eat more calories while bulking without gaining additional fat. I can eat more calories while cutting and achieve a greater rate of fat loss than I did when consuming fewer calories (which I attribute to increased leptin levels from the increased caloric intake); this has also lead to greater satiation and LBM retention while dieting. Ask any of my clients and they’ll tell you the same. Every single nutrition program that I design is based on the ME food combining method, and I have yet to have a client complain about the results they have obtained from working with me. And obviously John is doing something right; the results he achieves with his clients speak for themself. You know the saying, a man with an experience is not subject to a man with a theory. Science is great, but in the end, results are the proof in the pudding, and results are exactly what ME delivers.
Use; Don’t Abuse
Having said all that, I want to briefly touch on what I consider a potential problem with ME. Some will treat the food combining method as some sort of nutritional dogma to keep them lean forever. Because of this, if a meal doesn’t contain carbs–regardless of its nutritional content–people think it’s fair game. I’ve seen a guy down 20 buffalo wings and a 16 oz. steak while dieting and think nothing of it because “Hey, the meal didn’t contain carbs…I can’t get fat!” WRONG. ME is not a magical method of combining nutrients that will allow you to totally disregard calorie balance and not pay the price with your physique. Yes, it will allow you to eat slightly more calories than you were previously, but let’s not fool ourselves-- a 1/2-lb of ground beef molded into a delectable patty topped with 4 different kinds of cheese and bacon right before you go to bed isn’t a smart food choice simply because it’s P+F meal. Calorie balance still plays a critical role, even when avoiding the combination of fats and carbs.
Cressey and Robertson,
How do you know there isn’t another category of fat that I recommend for that other 10%?
Won’t you look foolish, discrediting my math skilz, when you realize that the error is yours.
Oh yea Cressey, you’re gonna be 182% wrong.
Mufasa,
Udos has no EPA and DHA…In fact, if it doesnt come from a fish (in most cases), there’s no EPA and DHA at all.
That’s why we need to supplement with fish oil.
There are several omega 3s…the biggies we most often hear about are:
Alpha Linolenic Acid (the essential omega 3 in our diet)
EPA
DHA
ALA can be converted to EPA and DHA but in quantities between 2% - 20% (most people at the dismal 2%). Therefore if UDO has 6.4g omega 3, it’s 6.4g ALA and only 2% of that becomes EPA and DHA.
Mufasa,
Never shall a Carb and a Fat touch. If I ever see that happening, I fall on the floor and squeal.
OR
You’re right. Try not to eat big wacks of carbs and fats in the same meal! That’s the goal.
If you want to be even more precise, try to minimize carbs in protein and fat meals and try to minimize fats in protein and carb meals.
The timing is more critical than anything else though…
Nutrient Timing 1
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459474
Nutrient Timing 2
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=465979
Or if you want a quick and dirty explanation…
Eating like the ADA (with a bit more protein) during and after training.
Eat like the Zone for a few hours after training
Eat like Atkins for the rest of the day.
Darren,
I’ve submitted 3 papers…
1 to the Journal of Applied Physiology
1 to the European Journal of Sports Medicine
1 to the APS journal Endocrinology and Metabolism
No divulging yet, though…
You’ll have to wait, like everyone else. Sorry…
(BUT, perhaps once they are accepted for pub, I might just publish my thesis on my web site).
Get Lifted,
Glad you’re enthusiastic about our work!
The Tailor Made is gonna be awesome but I’m keeping it under wraps.
Only those who sign up for the special report will get a peek at the Table of Contents months before the book is done…
http://www.johnberardi.com/products/tailor_made/index.htm
So go sign up!
Brian,
Powerlifers get special recs based on needs.
Some need to gain weight - that’s one plan.
Others need to lose weight - that’s another plan.
Others need to stay the same weight yet lose some damn fat and replace it with contractile protein - another plan.
However our plans are integrated with some workout suggestions to increase energy flux (energy balance may remain the same but flux is much higher - both more energy in and more energy out).
This flux concept allows you to be much leaner while improving performance.
(The exercise entails very high intensity, short interval work done at VERY high contractile speeds).
Maxx
3g piracetam and 1 serving Power Drive every am with 1 serving green tea.
Anicetam is more powerful than piracetam but it’s also more expensive. In the end, to use an effective dose it’s cheaper to use piracetam.
Fav nootropic stack…the one above.
Glucometer…
Take a fasted finger stick - then do it again - take the average.
Slam 75g glucose in 600ml water
15 min later take another 2 sticks
30 min after drink - same
60 min after drink - same
90 min after - same
120 min after - same
For a neat trick, try it with Surge and watch what a wacky response you get…You’ll have a negative glycemic index with Surge!!!
Meat absorption in one sitting…
I’d imagine all of it…
Gastric emptying slows to accomodate meal size…No matter how much meat you eat, it’ll sit around till it’s digested.
Ever crapped a piece of meat…Heck no! (corn maybe)
Therefore it was all digested!
Hey Mr. Berardi,
If you not too busy could you look over my Massive Eating calculations.
Thanks.
Stats:
18 yrs old
5’11"
180 lbs
BF 13-14%
I’m looking to bulk up, these are my calcs.
4112 cals/day
30C/40P/30F
1233/1644/1233cals
1233/3 meals per day= 102g of C/meal
1644/6 meals per day= 68g of P/meal
1233/3 meals per day= 45g of F/meal
I usually get about 40gs of protein per meal, but 68 sounds like a stretch.
Also, would it be ok to take flax and olive oil in the same meal?
Thanks.
Nate
Dr. John:
How do you explain your legendary success with women?
Dr.John, thank you so much for answering all these questions for us.
I have a few as well.
Could you please be a little more specific and specify what amount of carbs is allowed in P+F meal in grams or percentages?
In your article about food preparation and planning you have some receipts where heating is required (baking). Wouldn?t that damage the protein or change its profile unfavorably?
I do a five day split MAX-OT workout.
Is it still a good idea to take Surge post workout and introduce all
those simple sugars into my body and jack up my insulin five days
in a row?
I hva one quick question. Although this program was not written by you it has a nutritional portion I do not understand.
The mutation series (last phase) is a Neural reconstruction phase and requires 18*per pound of body weight in calories. Although the workouts are not so intense and last maybe 30 minutes, why does one need to eat a ton of calories at this phase? For me this means 3100 calories on a 40/40/20 split. Could you explain why that much is important?
Also, your nutrition articles are fantastic, what I would like to see from you is a workout program for fatloss/mass gaining that combines ur dieting principles. Program breakdown as well as nutrition breakdown.
Congrats on the Phd. I heard you can be found close to the Ryerson Campus in Toronto, I hope to bump into you one day 
I would also like to request a couple of sample pre-bed meals. Maybe one using Grow! and one using yogurt (someone posted that you might be choosing it over cottage cheese). As far as ideas for articles, what type/style of diet do you recommend when not following massive eating (you state in the article that it is not to be followed forever)? What adjustments do you make for individuals who seem to require a good bit of carbs periodically through the day to avoid decreased energy levels and headaches.
As an aside, I have dropped another 1-2% points after increasing carb intake slightly and eating carbs at every meal. I even increased calories slightly. Any ideas on what is happening? My guess is a slight increase in metabolic rate after the increase in calories.
Sorry for the long post. Enjoying the forum thus far.
I heard on your Staley interview that you recommed 5 G per kilogram of body weight. So for the 220 pound guy that would be 500 g Protein.
What other ‘radical’ nutrion recommendations do you have for your clients?
Right now, I am trying to bump my base metabolic rate. I am adding 250 calories to my daily intake every couple of weeks. What tips do you have for us FFBs? (Former Fat Boys - ala Chris Shugart)
[quote]John M Berardi wrote:
T-Nation,
Foods that improve brain function or “brain foods” eg eggs and lecithin are supposed to be brain food
what would be a list of schools to get a degree in nutrition from. most still teach the food pyramid, high protein intake is dangerous, etc. where can you graduate from that teaches decent info
[quote]Phil Caravaggio wrote:
Dr. John:
How do you explain your legendary success with women?[/quote]
Roofies ;-).
*Note to mod, this is entirely in jest and I guarantee JB will take it that way (I am his lefthand man after all - I would be the righthand man but he uses that hand to tug so I let Phil assume that role).