[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …right, but since you are saved you’re no longer spiritually dead, and this is the distinction that makes you different from [better than] me. It doesn’t matter what the difference is, beit skincolour or race, there’s an arteficial distinction that sets one person apart from another. This is racism in principle, and it’s inherent in any religion… >>>[/quote]My state is better than yours through no virtue of my own. My person in itself is no better than anyone else’s. If you want to say that in the wake of the Titanic with face down bodies floating everywhere that the ones that God brings back to life are “better”, fine. I can’t control your perspective.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…only a born-again christian is a true christian and can enter heaven. Same thing with the Jehova’s Witness’. Only the Jews are the chosen people. Anyone that is not a muslim is lower than a pig, etc… etc… >>>[/quote]Jesus Himself said this in no uncertain terms. “Unless one be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God”. Being born again means being born from true death to true life, partaking in the resurrection life of Christ. I live because He lives in me.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…you are right in saying that religion can, and have, bring communities together regardless of colour, but no religion can, and will, unite the planet. I don’t think we’ll ever see a united human race as long as we separate ourselves from each other through arbitrary ideology…[/quote]And I will say yet one more time that it is a modernist fluffy perverted kissy face false gospel that thinks the Son of God was incarnate among men to unite the world. Matthew 10:34-39 (caps are OT citations) [quote]34-Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35-For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; 36 and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD. 37-He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38-And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39-He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.[/quote] This thread asserts one thing only. The true Gospel of Christ utterly disallows racism because those who have been made alive together with Christ in His resurrection have a new nature that simply does not recognize race as divisive in any way. I’m also not saying that not being born again makes someone a racist. I AM saying, once again, wherever Christ dwells in the hearts of men (and women Alisa =] ) racism cannot prevail. It’s impossible.
[/quote]
…yeah, you don’t see race as divisive in any way. Good for you. Now stop dividing people based on their beliefs/faith and religion. Can you do that? I don’t think you can. Especially since you’re compelled to witness your faith to people who don’t share that faith…
the Abaza
the Australian Aborigines
the Adioukrou
the Adja
the Agaw
the Ahtna
the Aimaq
the Akposso
the Aleut
the Aluku
the Amhara
the Amis
the Amuzgo
the Anga
the Apache
the 'Are’are
the Atoni
the Attikamek
the Avar
the Aymara
all these people have lost their gods, their rites, their traditions, and sometimes their languages because of the proselytism of Christian and/or Islamic monotheism.
and this is only for the letter “A”. and this list is not even complete.
dozens of partial or total ethnocides
no animist or polytheist religion has ever attempted (let alone achieved) something like this.
Granted, Uncle Stalin tried to do the same thing with the Evenk, the Tungus, the Nivhke and other siberian peoples, but we all know that Stalinism IS a monotheistic religion, with the State-Machine as its one true God.
but you’re right. the complete acculturation of all humanity under one Dogma would be a guaranteed cure for Racism.
Death is the guaranteed cure for all diseases too.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …yeah, you don’t see race as divisive in any way. Good for you. Now stop dividing people based on their beliefs/faith and religion. Can you do that? I don’t think you can. Especially since you’re compelled to witness your faith to people who don’t share that faith…[/quote]You’re on a roll here dude. You’re absolutely correct. I cannot do that… literally… even if I wanted to. I can’t divide or unite anybody. It isn’t up to me.
Remember this, way back on 7-3? (probably not, but that’s alright)
I said:
[quote]There are 2 species of man in the world since the fulfillment of the law in Christ. Those who by free grace(this cannot be emphasized enough) have been born again into the life and mind of the resurrected Son of God and those who have not and remain for the moment dead in trespasses and sins.
To the former every single last speck of data possible from the movement of sub atomic particles to the majesty of the intelligent moral agency of the image of God in man having been created male and female. Everything, Screams the plainly self evident truth that He is and we are His children having been redeemed from death to life.
To the latter every single last speck of data screams one of a thousand derivative versions of anything but that. It is their nature inherited from the first Adam. A nature it must never be forgotten we still share in our old self.[/quote]Mankind IS divided as stated regardless of whether you or I like it or not. Nuthin to do with me. However, among the former, nobody who has understood the gospel can practice racism. The entire mission of Paul was to bring the eternal covenant with Abraham to ALL nations.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…Skyzyks, how is that different from religious ideas perverted to fit an extremist agenda?[/quote]
It isn’t.
Are you introducing a new vector into the argument, or rehashing the previous one?
[/quote]
…i’m saying that the threat of religious idiocy today is much bigger than fringe lunatics who twist scientific theory to fit their racist ideology…[/quote]
I don’t know the future, but I wouldn’t be so bold as to make the same statement. Darwinism and the study of genetics has only been around for a little more than a hundred years. In that time there has been a “Final Solution” and a eugenics movement that have cost lives numbering in the millions.
…pushharder also fooled himself into thinking i must be a youngster. Is that how you maintain the charade Zeb? My birthdate is the 27th of march 1971, but i don’t expect you to believe me though, it might contradict your preconceptions…[/quote]
I guess we thought that anyone approaching the age of 40 should know better.
[/quote]
…i’m actually very happy that my outlook and mentality does not resemble yours or pushharder’s…
[/quote]
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
For clarity’s sake, I’m not a Christian and I never will be. Nobody’s dwelling in my heart.
But are people seriously railing at the man for going to church and finding that his faith overcomes racism?
[/quote]
True this. Some poster is hurting and finds some solace in religion and you folks actually start a debate about… ???
Sorry to hear you’re hurting trib. I disagree with almost all the shit that comes out of your mouth (keystrokes), but I’m glad you find some solace and peace and wish you the best.
I think nobody here “rails” (had to look this up) at the op.
This is PWI, a debate forum, if someone comes forth and proclaims the solution to all hate and strings together an extremely weak argument, he’ll face some opposition.
And that’s how it should be.
BTW, this is pretty tame-
Imagine someone goes to bodybuilding section with a weird or just unusual bodybuilding remark -he will get smashed by the crowd, torn to pieces, eaten and pooped out by a certain “superposter”.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …yeah, you don’t see race as divisive in any way. Good for you. Now stop dividing people based on their beliefs/faith and religion. Can you do that? I don’t think you can. Especially since you’re compelled to witness your faith to people who don’t share that faith…[/quote]You’re on a roll here dude. You’re absolutely correct. I cannot do that… literally… even if I wanted to. I can’t divide or unite anybody. It isn’t up to me.
Remember this, way back on 7-3? (probably not, but that’s alright)
I said:
[quote]There are 2 species of man in the world since the fulfillment of the law in Christ. Those who by free grace(this cannot be emphasized enough) have been born again into the life and mind of the resurrected Son of God and those who have not and remain for the moment dead in trespasses and sins.
To the former every single last speck of data possible from the movement of sub atomic particles to the majesty of the intelligent moral agency of the image of God in man having been created male and female. Everything, Screams the plainly self evident truth that He is and we are His children having been redeemed from death to life.
To the latter every single last speck of data screams one of a thousand derivative versions of anything but that. It is their nature inherited from the first Adam. A nature it must never be forgotten we still share in our old self.[/quote]Mankind IS divided as stated regardless of whether you or I like it or not. Nuthin to do with me. However, among the former, nobody who has understood the gospel can practice racism. The entire mission of Paul was to bring the eternal covenant with Abraham to ALL nations.
[/quote]
…and you continue to deflect any and all responsability for your beliefs to the great unseen skyfairy. You also continue to fail to understand my point: as long as you, by proxy through your beliefs, divide people into those who believe like you and those who do not believe like you, you’re following the same principles of thought a racist follows…
…you no longer judge people based on the colour of their skin, but you judge them [by proxy through your beliefs] based on the difference in beliefs or lack thereof. And as long as you do that, nothing will change…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…Skyzyks, how is that different from religious ideas perverted to fit an extremist agenda?[/quote]
It isn’t.
Are you introducing a new vector into the argument, or rehashing the previous one?
[/quote]
…i’m saying that the threat of religious idiocy today is much bigger than fringe lunatics who twist scientific theory to fit their racist ideology…[/quote]
I don’t know the future, but I wouldn’t be so bold as to make the same statement. Darwinism and the study of genetics has only been around for a little more than a hundred years. In that time there has been a “Final Solution” and a eugenics movement that have cost lives numbering in the millions.
Give it another thousand and then we’ll review.
[/quote]
…Darwin had nothing to do with the final solution. Blame the catholic Hitler for that!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Wow, some atheists with tolerance toward another persons beliefs. On this board that is quite rare indeed.[/quote]
It’s the exact opposite.
Atheists are nice people. Like on this board.
We pretty much have no lobby.
The christian lobby is nearly two thousand years old, has it’s own state and is so powerful, their workforce routinely sodomizes little children with little to no personal repercussions. Probably to show they CAN do it.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Wow, some atheists with tolerance toward another persons beliefs. On this board that is quite rare indeed.[/quote]
It’s the exact opposite.
Atheists are nice people. Like on this board.
We pretty much have no lobby.
The christian lobby is nearly two thousand years old, has it’s own state and is so powerful, their workforce routinely sodomizes little children with little to no personal repercussions. Probably to show they CAN do it.
[/quote]
I was speaking about the atheists on this board. And I will stand by my original statement.
If I were to peel it back another layer everyone would find that at the very essence of atheism (on this board) seems to be rebellion. The transparency is remarkable. I get it, you are young, strong, were not raised in a Christian household, or you were influenced by the university you attend(ed). And you don’t believe in God. (BIG YAWN) nothing, absolutely NOTHING new about this.
Furthermore, the very things that you accuse me and other Christians of, you and other atheists do in spades. What you don’t realize is that your “faith” is not believing in God and you are just as vocal (if not more so) as myself, or any other Christian who drones on about his faith. That you don’t see this is absolutely amusing.
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
For clarity’s sake, I’m not a Christian and I never will be. Nobody’s dwelling in my heart.
But are people seriously railing at the man for going to church and finding that his faith overcomes racism?
[/quote]
True this. Some poster is hurting and finds some solace in religion and you folks actually start a debate about… ???
Sorry to hear you’re hurting trib. I disagree with almost all the shit that comes out of your mouth (keystrokes), but I’m glad you find some solace and peace and wish you the best.
[/quote]That’s very nice of you two. I mean that. However, they aren’t botherin me. LOL!!! Nothing anybody could say to me on an internet forum could possibly bother me with everything that’s going on especially. I’ll be back later.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …and you continue to deflect any and all responsability for your beliefs to the great unseen skyfairy. You also continue to fail to understand my point: as long as you, by proxy through your beliefs, divide people into those who believe like you and those who do not believe like you, you’re following the same principles of thought a racist follows…
…you no longer judge people based on the colour of their skin, but you judge them [by proxy through your beliefs] based on the difference in beliefs or lack thereof. And as long as you do that, nothing will change…[/quote]Any differentiation of people based on anything is _____________ism. In other words a judgment of a person’s worth, dignity or quality of character is bigotry whether race is the standard or it’s something else, in my case from your point of view, it’s religion. I understand your point completely, but declare it nonsense.(with a friendly smile) It is you who continues to fail to grasp mine. Guess why.
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
For clarity’s sake, I’m not a Christian >>>[/quote]Quite so [quote]AlisaV wrote:<<< and I never will be. >>>[/quote]I’ve heard that before =] >>>[quote]AlisaV wrote: <<<Nobody’s dwelling in my heart. >>>[/quote]If the glorified, exalted Christ who now sits at the right hand of the Father has decided He will take up residence there? He will. And you will be well aware of it and will put up no fight whatsoever. That’s the trouble with the Jesus’s of the modern world. They’re all sitting around hoping we go along with their wishes. THEE Jesus of Nazareth has been given a body of believers from eternity and all those who are His from the Father will come to Him.
You’re a reader Alisa. Read the Bondage of the Will by Martin Luther. Most Lutherans today would swallow their tongue if they knew what Luther actually believed. Of Freedom of the Will by Jonathan Edwards. Or George Whitfield’s letter to John Wesley on predestination and election. Fascinating even if you hated them.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …and you continue to deflect any and all responsability for your beliefs to the great unseen skyfairy. You also continue to fail to understand my point: as long as you, by proxy through your beliefs, divide people into those who believe like you and those who do not believe like you, you’re following the same principles of thought a racist follows…
…you no longer judge people based on the colour of their skin, but you judge them [by proxy through your beliefs] based on the difference in beliefs or lack thereof. And as long as you do that, nothing will change…[/quote]Any differentiation of people based on anything is _____________ism. In other words a judgment of a person’s worth, dignity or quality of character is bigotry whether race is the standard or it’s something else, in my case from your point of view, it’s religion. I understand your point completely, but declare it nonsense.(with a friendly smile) It is you who continues to fail to grasp mine. Guess why.
[/quote]
…why do you think it’s nonsense? I don’t like guessing games, so you’re just going to have to tell me what i fail to grasp…
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Wow, some atheists with tolerance toward another persons beliefs. On this board that is quite rare indeed.[/quote]
It’s the exact opposite.
Atheists are nice people. Like on this board.
We pretty much have no lobby.
The christian lobby is nearly two thousand years old, has it’s own state and is so powerful, their workforce routinely sodomizes little children with little to no personal repercussions. Probably to show they CAN do it.
[/quote]
I was speaking about the atheists on this board. And I will stand by my original statement.
If I were to peel it back another layer everyone would find that at the very essence of atheism (on this board) seems to be rebellion. The transparency is remarkable. I get it, you are young, strong, were not raised in a Christian household, or you were influenced by the university you attend(ed). And you don’t believe in God. (BIG YAWN) nothing, absolutely NOTHING new about this.
Furthermore, the very things that you accuse me and other Christians of, you and other atheists do in spades. What you don’t realize is that your “faith” is not believing in God and you are just as vocal (if not more so) as myself, or any other Christian who drones on about his faith. That you don’t see this is absolutely amusing.
[/quote]
I don’t know how old you are but I’m 47. And it seems the same way to me. The essence is almost always I don’t want anyone to tell me what to do.
