[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…pushharder also fooled himself into thinking i must be a youngster. Is that how you maintain the charade Zeb? My birthdate is the 27th of march 1971, but i don’t expect you to believe me though, it might contradict your preconceptions…[/quote]
I guess we thought that anyone approaching the age of 40 should know better.
[/quote]
…i’m actually very happy that my outlook and mentality does not resemble yours or pushharder’s…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<<…Tiribulus said repeatedly that i’m spiritually dead because i don’t share his beliefs. That makes me, in his eyes, a lesser man. >>>
[/quote]After all we’ve been through together and you still don’t hear. Everybody is born spiritually dead, including me. The difference between you and I is the eternal electing grace of almighty God, the explanation for which neither of us may ever receive. You are not a lesser man in my eyes. God forbid my friend. I know better than that. I am not calling you anything.
I have extensively shown you from scripture which you don’t believe, but which does demonstrate my belief, that every last human being aside from Christ Himself is conceived in sin and born into spiritual death in the spiritual graveyard of this fallen world. All OF US. God, who is answerable to no one, for reasons sufficient entirely unto Himself resurrects some of us and has known those by name from eternity upon whom He would bestow this unfathomable free gift.
You may be one. And as I’ve told you already, if you are you WILL come home. And you will do it willingly, joyously and humbly. I promise you. Because you see, the God I serve cannot fail. All of those He wants as His own will be. Nobody is lesser or greater than anybody else. He says so. It has nothing to do with anything in the elect that recommend them to the Father over those He chooses to leave in their sin.[/quote]
…but as long as i’m not saved through the grace of Christ, i remain spiritually dead, right?
[/quote]
Right. Just as I would have been and quite deservedly so.
There are a ton of monotheistic boards floating in the web, where “arguments for racialism and seperatism.” are presented just as well. We don’t have to be a genius to assume they outnumber “odinists” and “other racist darwinists” by quite some factors.
If the books themselves wouldn’t be so damn violent, I would have to admit the argument would be as weak as yours.
But it doesn’t matter how I spin it - your argument falls flat on it’ face both ways!
If a case can be made that certain books can make people violently racist, then your bibles and possibly Darwin’s work would disqualify themselves. There is a lot more seperation, as you called it, and racism BECAUSE of divine books.
If you dismiss it by saying these racists don’t understand the true meaning, I can do so, too, except, your book does indeed excuse slavery and racism.
Which Darwin’s theory does not in the slightest.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
However, the worst ARE the monotheisms (Maybe without the Bahai, but that is only a question of time). [/quote]
Thanks for the vote of… confidence?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…no, it’s “so what?” because, eventhough there are fringe lunatics that took evolution theory hostage, the position you assume here is wrong on the basis that Darwin himself never said anything about racial superiority through evolutionary theory, or that the theory itself makes mention of such a thing…
…this is just another weak attempt to discredit a valid and vital branch of science. And it’s so unnecessary…
[/quote]
Yeah, but no.
It provides a non-religious mechanism (natural selection within differing enviroments) for explaining how one’s superior race is superior.
Why would I discredit a subject (evolution) that I have no issue with? My bio class has been my favorite so far.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
There are a ton of monotheistic boards floating in the web, where “arguments for racialism and seperatism.” are presented just as well. We don’t have to be a genius to assume they outnumber “odinists” and “other racist darwinists” by quite some factors.
If the books themselves wouldn’t be so damn violent, I would have to admit the argument would be as weak as yours.
But it doesn’t matter how I spin it - your argument falls flat on it’ face both ways!
If a case can be made that certain books can make people violently racist, then your bibles and possibly Darwin’s work would disqualify themselves. There is a lot more seperation, as you called it, and racism BECAUSE of divine books.
If you dismiss it by saying these racists don’t understand the true meaning, I can do so, too, except, your book does indeed excuse slavery and racism.
Which Darwin’s theory does not in the slightest. >>>[/quote]The difference between you and Ephrem is that he never pretended he knew anything about Christianity. He never bought a single syllable I said which is fine, but he asked because he knew he didn’t know. That doesn’t make him any less truly dead, but it does provide a living illustration of the common grace of God bestowed upon all men to varying degrees.
You are so pathetically arrogant and clueless it does not warrant a response. It’s ok not to know, it’s not ok to pretend you do.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<<…Tiribulus said repeatedly that i’m spiritually dead because i don’t share his beliefs. That makes me, in his eyes, a lesser man. >>>
[/quote]After all we’ve been through together and you still don’t hear. Everybody is born spiritually dead, including me. The difference between you and I is the eternal electing grace of almighty God, the explanation for which neither of us may ever receive. You are not a lesser man in my eyes. God forbid my friend. I know better than that. I am not calling you anything.
I have extensively shown you from scripture which you don’t believe, but which does demonstrate my belief, that every last human being aside from Christ Himself is conceived in sin and born into spiritual death in the spiritual graveyard of this fallen world. All OF US. God, who is answerable to no one, for reasons sufficient entirely unto Himself resurrects some of us and has known those by name from eternity upon whom He would bestow this unfathomable free gift.
You may be one. And as I’ve told you already, if you are you WILL come home. And you will do it willingly, joyously and humbly. I promise you. Because you see, the God I serve cannot fail. All of those He wants as His own will be. Nobody is lesser or greater than anybody else. He says so. It has nothing to do with anything in the elect that recommend them to the Father over those He chooses to leave in their sin.[/quote]
…but as long as i’m not saved through the grace of Christ, i remain spiritually dead, right?
[/quote]
Right. Just as I would have been and quite deservedly so.[/quote]
…right, but since you are saved you’re no longer spiritually dead, and this is the distinction that makes you different from [better than] me. It doesn’t matter what the difference is, beit skincolour or race, there’s an arteficial distinction that sets one person apart from another. This is racism in principle, and it’s inherent in any religion…
…only a born-again christian is a true christian and can enter heaven. Same thing with the Jehova’s Witness’. Only the Jews are the chosen people. Anyone that is not a muslim is lower than a pig, etc… etc…
…you are right in saying that religion can, and have, bring communities together regardless of colour, but no religion can, and will, unite the planet. I don’t think we’ll ever see a united human race as long as we separate ourselves from eachother through arbitrary ideology…
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
The difference between you and Ephrem is that he never pretended he knew anything about Christianity. He never bought a single syllable I said which is fine, but he asked because he knew he didn’t know. That doesn’t make him any less truly dead, but it does provide a living illustration of the common grace of God bestowed upon all men to varying degrees.
You are so pathetically arrogant and clueless it does not warrant a response. It’s ok not to know, it’s not ok to pretend you do.
[/quote]
Look at your hands, you promise gold, but they are empty.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
There are a ton of monotheistic boards floating in the web, where “arguments for racialism and seperatism.” are presented just as well. We don’t have to be a genius to assume they outnumber “odinists” and “other racist darwinists” by quite some factors.
If the books themselves wouldn’t be so damn violent, I would have to admit the argument would be as weak as yours.
But it doesn’t matter how I spin it - your argument falls flat on it’ face both ways!
If a case can be made that certain books can make people violently racist, then your bibles and possibly Darwin’s work would disqualify themselves. There is a lot more seperation, as you called it, and racism BECAUSE of divine books.
If you dismiss it by saying these racists don’t understand the true meaning, I can do so, too, except, your book does indeed excuse slavery and racism.
Which Darwin’s theory does not in the slightest.
[/quote]
I’ll take this a small victory.
Seems like you’ve at least abandonded:
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Darwin has 0 to do with racism.
“paganistic ethnic-tribal racialists” is a silly concept, too, for tribal societies think in terms of tribes, not “races”.
[/quote]
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…no, it’s “so what?” because, eventhough there are fringe lunatics that took evolution theory hostage, the position you assume here is wrong on the basis that Darwin himself never said anything about racial superiority through evolutionary theory, or that the theory itself makes mention of such a thing…
…this is just another weak attempt to discredit a valid and vital branch of science. And it’s so unnecessary…
[/quote]
Yeah, but no.
It provides a non-religious mechanism (natural selection within differing enviroments) for explaining how one’s superior race is superior.
Why would I discredit a subject (evolution) that I have no issue with? My bio class has been my favorite so far.[/quote]
…no it doesn’t. There just the human race, and evolution theory shows how the differences between humans are merely adaptations to the environment. That is all. If someone uses this as a means to show how one race is superior, this person is lying…
…look, take an African man to the north pole and let him fend for himself. Will he die? Most likely. Does that mean that the Inuit are superiour? Within their environment, yes. Now, take an Inuit man to Africa and let him fend for himself. Will he die? Most likely. Does that mean the african man is superiour? Within his environment, yes…
…Sloth, even the Pilgrims would have starved were it not for the Natives giving them food. Once those first settlers had time to adapt to their new environment, they were able to survive. Just like morality (: it’s all relative…
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
There are a ton of monotheistic boards floating in the web, where “arguments for racialism and seperatism.” are presented just as well. We don’t have to be a genius to assume they outnumber “odinists” and “other racist darwinists” by quite some factors.
If the books themselves wouldn’t be so damn violent, I would have to admit the argument would be as weak as yours.
But it doesn’t matter how I spin it - your argument falls flat on it’ face both ways!
If a case can be made that certain books can make people violently racist, then your bibles and possibly Darwin’s work would disqualify themselves. There is a lot more seperation, as you called it, and racism BECAUSE of divine books.
If you dismiss it by saying these racists don’t understand the true meaning, I can do so, too, except, your book does indeed excuse slavery and racism.
Which Darwin’s theory does not in the slightest.
[/quote]
I’ll take this a small victory.
Seems like you’ve at least abandonded:
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Darwin has 0 to do with racism.
“paganistic ethnic-tribal racialists” is a silly concept, too, for tribal societies think in terms of tribes, not “races”.
[/quote]
[/quote]
How?
Darwin still has zero to do with racism.
I hard try to predigest an argument for you. Don’t fail on me, man.
Ephrem, don’t take this the wrong way, but you seem to live in an idealized world created by your own thoughts.
In the rest of the world, People are twisting the theories of Darwin to justify their hatred and act against others. They have been for years. Some of the people I’ve known have been on that bandwagon for almost 20 years now.
True that Darwins theories of evolution have nothing to do with and were not intended to be used as tools of racism and division, but it is also true that people are in fact using it for exactly that.
Not the first scientific theory to be bastardized by people with an agenda, and won’t be the last.
Science is the new religion, and will be used as such.
On a different note: Trib, congrats on an uplifting spiritual experience. It’s not often enough that people are able to commune at a spiritual level.
…Skyzyks, how is that different from religious ideas perverted to fit an extremist agenda?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…Skyzyks, how is that different from religious ideas perverted to fit an extremist agenda?[/quote]
It isn’t.
Are you introducing a new vector into the argument, or rehashing the previous one?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…Skyzyks, how is that different from religious ideas perverted to fit an extremist agenda?[/quote]
Oh-ho-ho! Ephrem and Sloth have reached an accord!
How in the hell did I become a diplomat?
Fuck both of you.
And Zeb too!
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
The difference between you and Ephrem is that he never pretended he knew anything about Christianity. He never bought a single syllable I said which is fine, but he asked because he knew he didn’t know. That doesn’t make him any less truly dead, but it does provide a living illustration of the common grace of God bestowed upon all men to varying degrees.
You are so pathetically arrogant and clueless it does not warrant a response. It’s ok not to know, it’s not ok to pretend you do.
[/quote]
Look at your hands, you promise gold, but they are empty.[/quote]See? Now there’s your problem. You’re looking at my hands as if I might have anything to offer you.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …right, but since you are saved you’re no longer spiritually dead, and this is the distinction that makes you different from [better than] me. It doesn’t matter what the difference is, beit skincolour or race, there’s an arteficial distinction that sets one person apart from another. This is racism in principle, and it’s inherent in any religion… >>>[/quote]My state is better than yours through no virtue of my own. My person in itself is no better than anyone else’s. If you want to say that in the wake of the Titanic with face down bodies floating everywhere that the ones that God brings back to life are “better”, fine. I can’t control your perspective.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…only a born-again christian is a true christian and can enter heaven. Same thing with the Jehova’s Witness’. Only the Jews are the chosen people. Anyone that is not a muslim is lower than a pig, etc… etc… >>>[/quote]Jesus Himself said this in no uncertain terms. “Unless one be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God”. Being born again means being born from true death to true life, partaking in the resurrection life of Christ. I live because He lives in me.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…you are right in saying that religion can, and have, bring communities together regardless of colour, but no religion can, and will, unite the planet. I don’t think we’ll ever see a united human race as long as we separate ourselves from each other through arbitrary ideology…[/quote]And I will say yet one more time that it is a modernist fluffy perverted kissy face false gospel that thinks the Son of God was incarnate among men to unite the world. Matthew 10:34-39 (caps are OT citations) [quote]34-Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35-For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; 36 and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD. 37-He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38-And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39-He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.[/quote] This thread asserts one thing only. The true Gospel of Christ utterly disallows racism because those who have been made alive together with Christ in His resurrection have a new nature that simply does not recognize race as divisive in any way. I’m also not saying that not being born again makes someone a racist. I AM saying, once again, wherever Christ dwells in the hearts of men (and women Alisa =] ) racism cannot prevail. It’s impossible.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
How in the hell did I become a diplomat?
[/quote]
Perhaps it’s a calling, a natural vocation?
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…Skyzyks, how is that different from religious ideas perverted to fit an extremist agenda?[/quote]
It isn’t.
Are you introducing a new vector into the argument, or rehashing the previous one?
[/quote]
…i’m saying that the threat of religious idiocy today is much bigger than fringe lunatics who twist scientific theory to fit their racist ideology…