Guaranteed Cure for Racism

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Wow, some atheists with tolerance toward another persons beliefs. On this board that is quite rare indeed.[/quote]

It’s the exact opposite.
Atheists are nice people. Like on this board.
We pretty much have no lobby.

The christian lobby is nearly two thousand years old, has it’s own state and is so powerful, their workforce routinely sodomizes little children with little to no personal repercussions. Probably to show they CAN do it.

[/quote]

I was speaking about the atheists on this board. And I will stand by my original statement.

If I were to peel it back another layer everyone would find that at the very essence of atheism (on this board) seems to be rebellion. The transparency is remarkable. I get it, you are young, strong, were not raised in a Christian household, or you were influenced by the university you attend(ed). And you don’t believe in God. (BIG YAWN) nothing, absolutely NOTHING new about this.

Furthermore, the very things that you accuse me and other Christians of, you and other atheists do in spades. What you don’t realize is that your “faith” is not believing in God and you are just as vocal (if not more so) as myself, or any other Christian who drones on about his faith. That you don’t see this is absolutely amusing.

[/quote]

But couldn’t you say that this is just due to the fact that the norm in America still is Christianity, so of course going against that has some sort of ‘rebellious’ qualities about it?

Also, this has probably been beaten to death a gazillion times but not being a Christian or not believing in God isn’t really a faith. There’s no scripture or community or worship in atheism.

Now, feverently believing that there is absolutely 100% no God, nothing spiritual or nothing divine at all could be seen as a faith of sorts, but that’s quite different to what I assume the norm for most atheists is (i.e. they are willing to change their mind)

102

[quote]ephrem wrote:
[/quote]I’m not ignoring you Eph. I’ve got a soft spot fer ya buddy you know that. Been working constantly tryin to save my house and now I have back, bi’s and abs which I’ll continue to do as long as I still have my gym. I’ll try to get to ya later

103

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Wow, some atheists with tolerance toward another persons beliefs. On this board that is quite rare indeed.[/quote]

It’s the exact opposite.
Atheists are nice people. Like on this board.
We pretty much have no lobby.

The christian lobby is nearly two thousand years old, has it’s own state and is so powerful, their workforce routinely sodomizes little children with little to no personal repercussions. Probably to show they CAN do it.

[/quote]

I was speaking about the atheists on this board. And I will stand by my original statement.

If I were to peel it back another layer everyone would find that at the very essence of atheism (on this board) seems to be rebellion. The transparency is remarkable. I get it, you are young, strong, were not raised in a Christian household, or you were influenced by the university you attend(ed). And you don’t believe in God. (BIG YAWN) nothing, absolutely NOTHING new about this.

Furthermore, the very things that you accuse me and other Christians of, you and other atheists do in spades. What you don’t realize is that your “faith” is not believing in God and you are just as vocal (if not more so) as myself, or any other Christian who drones on about his faith. That you don’t see this is absolutely amusing.[/quote]

I can only hope you realize how big your hard-on for hating institutes of higher education is. I don’t think there’s been a single person you disagreed with that you didn’t blame somehow on college, regardless of the points being made and the age of the person you disagreed with.

104

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …and you continue to deflect any and all responsability for your beliefs to the great unseen skyfairy. You also continue to fail to understand my point: as long as you, by proxy through your beliefs, divide people into those who believe like you and those who do not believe like you, you’re following the same principles of thought a racist follows…

…you no longer judge people based on the colour of their skin, but you judge them [by proxy through your beliefs] based on the difference in beliefs or lack thereof. And as long as you do that, nothing will change…[/quote]Any differentiation of people based on anything is _____________ism. In other words a judgment of a person’s worth, dignity or quality of character is bigotry whether race is the standard or it’s something else, in my case from your point of view, it’s religion. I understand your point completely, but declare it nonsense.(with a friendly smile) It is you who continues to fail to grasp mine. Guess why.
[/quote]

…why do you think it’s nonsense? I don’t like guessing games, so you’re just going to have to tell me what i fail to grasp…
[/quote]It’s nonsense for 2 reasons. One is that I do not determine a person’s worth, dignity or quality of character based on whether they are born again or not. Left to themselves it would take some mighty diligent searching to dig up somebody of a more arrogant, self worshiping, people user character than myself. Did I not tell you that I was most assuredly not looking for Jesus when he saved me.

The difference between believers and un is the indwelling presence of the risen second person of the Godhead… period. All our righteousness is His. That will profoundly transform somebody’s life, but it ain’t because they are better than anybody on any level. I was asking you to guess why I’ll say you will not embrace that truth.

The other reason it’s nonsense is because the God who created you says it is. That doesn’t make you stupid, or a particularly bad person. Come on we’ve been through this. It just means you’re an unbeliever who is in bondage to the dead nature of his father Adam. Just like I was and would still be we’re it not for His choosing me from the foundation of the world. The unshakable knowledge of that fact precludes me from any speck of “holier than thou” against those who have not (maybe yet) been made partakers of His life.

The church I go to is full of black people who would literally embrace you and welcome you in without even asking if you were saved or not. That’s God’s problem for now. Our problem is to love you and tell you the truth. How you respond is also God’s problem unless we are mean or condemning to you in which case we will see His discipline for abusing His grace. This should be the part where you tell me how I AM condemning you. How did we get on all this again?

105

[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …and you continue to deflect any and all responsability for your beliefs to the great unseen skyfairy…

…as long as you…divide people…you’re following the same principles of thought a racist follows…[/quote]

Ephrem, c’mon, you’re not worried about how divisive anyone is. Not really.

106

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
If a religious person wants to help otheres, his religious brainwashing will convince him it’s because of god.

[/quote]

[quote]ephrem wrote:
It has failed to do so in the past 2000 years, and only a fool continues to believe otherwise, no matter how closeknit and supportive his community may be…[/quote]

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
@ephrem (and Mr.Kubrick)

GREAT post.

We have to overcome (monotheistic) Religion and similar cursed scourges…
[/quote]

107

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Now stop dividing people based on their beliefs/faith and religion.[/quote]

Ahem…

108

And ephrem, for all your faux outrage with Tirib’s distinction between being spiritually alive or spiritually dead–in his Christian sense of the phrase–you’ve in the meantime judged us as ‘spiritually unliving.’ After all, your psychoanalysis of us–the religious–has lead you to state that we’ve only deluded ourselves to escape our futility, our insignificance. We are the self-deluded. We are your ‘others/them/they/those people.’

You’re not at all bothered by the thought of being spiritually dead. Or, that others might think you’re spirtually dead. You’re outraged because other believe there is a set path to a spiritual life. If you choose not to walk it, refusing follow the path as it dictates, neither Tirib or I will think any less of you than you think of yourself (futile). In fact, I’m sure we think a great deal more of you than you do of us. After all, no matter what, to you we’re futile and insignificant. I at least see a potential for much, much, more in everyone. Even you.

But, whatever. Since I’ve about worn out the topic, and the rules for naming chemical compounds aren’t going to just jump into my head, I’m outta here!

109

Before I do go, you and your wife are in my prayers Tiribulus. A lot of hurting out there right now, and I’m sure sorry you and your wife have experienced your share of it. But, it certainly does sound as if you have some wonderful and loving people in your life, both at church and at home. God bless!

111

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …and you continue to deflect any and all responsability for your beliefs to the great unseen skyfairy. You also continue to fail to understand my point: as long as you, by proxy through your beliefs, divide people into those who believe like you and those who do not believe like you, you’re following the same principles of thought a racist follows…

…you no longer judge people based on the colour of their skin, but you judge them [by proxy through your beliefs] based on the difference in beliefs or lack thereof. And as long as you do that, nothing will change…[/quote]Any differentiation of people based on anything is _____________ism. In other words a judgment of a person’s worth, dignity or quality of character is bigotry whether race is the standard or it’s something else, in my case from your point of view, it’s religion. I understand your point completely, but declare it nonsense.(with a friendly smile) It is you who continues to fail to grasp mine. Guess why.
[/quote]

…why do you think it’s nonsense? I don’t like guessing games, so you’re just going to have to tell me what i fail to grasp…
[/quote]It’s nonsense for 2 reasons. One is that I do not determine a person’s worth, dignity or quality of character based on whether they are born again or not. Left to themselves it would take some mighty diligent searching to dig up somebody of a more arrogant, self worshiping, people user character than myself. Did I not tell you that I was most assuredly not looking for Jesus when he saved me.

The difference between believers and un is the indwelling presence of the risen second person of the Godhead… period. All our righteousness is His. That will profoundly transform somebody’s life, but it ain’t because they are better than anybody on any level. I was asking you to guess why I’ll say you will not embrace that truth.

The other reason it’s nonsense is because the God who created you says it is. That doesn’t make you stupid, or a particularly bad person. Come on we’ve been through this. It just means you’re an unbeliever who is in bondage to the dead nature of his father Adam. Just like I was and would still be we’re it not for His choosing me from the foundation of the world. The unshakable knowledge of that fact precludes me from any speck of “holier than thou” against those who have not (maybe yet) been made partakers of His life.

The church I go to is full of black people who would literally embrace you and welcome you in without even asking if you were saved or not. That’s God’s problem for now. Our problem is to love you and tell you the truth. How you respond is also God’s problem unless we are mean or condemning to you in which case we will see His discipline for abusing His grace. This should be the part where you tell me how I AM condemning you. How did we get on all this again?
[/quote]

…we got on this because you claimed that your beliefs will end all racism. I thought that was ironic since religion is divise by nature. You’ve headbutted with a creationist young earth believer, a Jehova’s Witness, a catholic and an unspecified christian numerous times on this board. And those weren’t friendly disagreements either…

…obviously you have far more important things on your mind at the moment, and it’s a pity that wishing you all the best is all i can do from here, but still; i hope things will work out for you…

112

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …and you continue to deflect any and all responsability for your beliefs to the great unseen skyfairy…

…as long as you…divide people…you’re following the same principles of thought a racist follows…[/quote]

Ephrem, c’mon, you’re not worried about how divisive anyone is. Not really.
[/quote]

…actually i am. Our tribal heritage is what’s holding is back as a species. There’s no reason anymore to separate ourselves from other people through ideology and fairytales…

113

[quote]ephrem wrote:
and fairytales…
[/quote]

That is insulting to my spiritual faith…Oh that’s right that’s what you guys do. I know you can’t help yourself as your faith is in attacking other peoples faith.

114

[quote]Otep wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Wow, some atheists with tolerance toward another persons beliefs. On this board that is quite rare indeed.[/quote]

It’s the exact opposite.
Atheists are nice people. Like on this board.
We pretty much have no lobby.

The christian lobby is nearly two thousand years old, has it’s own state and is so powerful, their workforce routinely sodomizes little children with little to no personal repercussions. Probably to show they CAN do it.

[/quote]

I was speaking about the atheists on this board. And I will stand by my original statement.

If I were to peel it back another layer everyone would find that at the very essence of atheism (on this board) seems to be rebellion. The transparency is remarkable. I get it, you are young, strong, were not raised in a Christian household, or you were influenced by the university you attend(ed). And you don’t believe in God. (BIG YAWN) nothing, absolutely NOTHING new about this.

Furthermore, the very things that you accuse me and other Christians of, you and other atheists do in spades. What you don’t realize is that your “faith” is not believing in God and you are just as vocal (if not more so) as myself, or any other Christian who drones on about his faith. That you don’t see this is absolutely amusing.[/quote]

I can only hope you realize how big your hard-on for hating institutes of higher education is. I don’t think there’s been a single person you disagreed with that you didn’t blame somehow on college, regardless of the points being made and the age of the person you disagreed with.[/quote]

First of all, that’s not true. I’ve debated with many on this board and never brought it up. With that said, I do mention it frequently because I am so very aware of which direction our Universities have taken over the past 50 years. They turned left sometime in the early 60’s and kept right on driving. Secondly, I am also aware that this board skews young male. Hence the reason for calling out our Universities.

115

Just putting this out there for Ephrem – I don’t know you or your situation, but I’ve seen the dynamic on this thread and others.

I’ve seen Christian proselytizing in action quite a bit, and I’ve seen it work. What usually happens is that someone is broken-spirited and in some kind of trouble, and then Christians offer him/her love, understanding, and confidence. It’s perfectly genuine; these are nice people, very giving, and they offer real help. People decide to be Christians based on the fact that Christians are kind to them – of course you’d want to follow the ideals of those who helped you, right?

There’s nothing wrong with being a Christian, of course, but Christians are not the only people who can offer love and support and believe in you. And they are not the only people who can inspire you to live according to high ideals. I’ve been treated that way by some very outspoken atheists. I’ve had that same experience where I can’t believe how this person is so generous with his time and so tolerant of my failings. Just, as you have these discussions, keep an open mind and realize that what you’re looking for can come from different sources.

If, on a literal, simple level, someone’s words don’t make sense, or his claims don’t seem likely, and learning more doesn’t make it any clearer, then what you’re hearing probably isn’t true. The only tool you have is your brain, so you may as well trust it.

116

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Just putting this out there for Ephrem – I don’t know you or your situation, but I’ve seen the dynamic on this thread and others.

I’ve seen Christian proselytizing in action quite a bit, and I’ve seen it work. What usually happens is that someone is broken-spirited and in some kind of trouble, and then Christians offer him/her love, understanding, and confidence. It’s perfectly genuine; these are nice people, very giving, and they offer real help. People decide to be Christians based on the fact that Christians are kind to them – of course you’d want to follow the ideals of those who helped you, right?

There’s nothing wrong with being a Christian, of course, but Christians are not the only people who can offer love and support and believe in you. And they are not the only people who can inspire you to live according to high ideals. I’ve been treated that way by some very outspoken atheists. I’ve had that same experience where I can’t believe how this person is so generous with his time and so tolerant of my failings. Just, as you have these discussions, keep an open mind and realize that what you’re looking for can come from different sources.

If, on a literal, simple level, someone’s words don’t make sense, or his claims don’t seem likely, and learning more doesn’t make it any clearer, then what you’re hearing probably isn’t true. The only tool you have is your brain, so you may as well trust it.[/quote]

…altough i appreciate where you’re coming from Alisa, i’ve been on this “path” for the past 10 years and developed an inner voice of reason that could not have come to be were it not for the staunch believers of many denomination…

…they assist me in folding back the layers of… obscured logic, if you will. Through these discussion is learn something about me, and thus of the human condition. Knowing our fellow wo/man comes [only] through selfknowledge. That’s life for me basically; a learning experience…

117

[quote]tom63 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Wow, some atheists with tolerance toward another persons beliefs. On this board that is quite rare indeed.[/quote]

It’s the exact opposite.
Atheists are nice people. Like on this board.
We pretty much have no lobby.

The christian lobby is nearly two thousand years old, has it’s own state and is so powerful, their workforce routinely sodomizes little children with little to no personal repercussions. Probably to show they CAN do it.

[/quote]

I was speaking about the atheists on this board. And I will stand by my original statement.

If I were to peel it back another layer everyone would find that at the very essence of atheism (on this board) seems to be rebellion. The transparency is remarkable. I get it, you are young, strong, were not raised in a Christian household, or you were influenced by the university you attend(ed). And you don’t believe in God. (BIG YAWN) nothing, absolutely NOTHING new about this.

Furthermore, the very things that you accuse me and other Christians of, you and other atheists do in spades. What you don’t realize is that your “faith” is not believing in God and you are just as vocal (if not more so) as myself, or any other Christian who drones on about his faith. That you don’t see this is absolutely amusing.

[/quote]

I don’t know how old you are but I’m 47. And it seems the same way to me. The essence is almost always I don’t want anyone to tell me what to do.[/quote]

BINGO

118

[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …altough i appreciate where you’re coming from Alisa, i’ve been on this “path” for the past 10 years and developed an inner voice of reason that could not have come to be were it not for the staunch believers of many denomination…

…they assist me in folding back the layers of… obscured logic, if you will. Through these discussion is learn something about me, and thus of the human condition. Knowing our fellow wo/man comes [only] through selfknowledge. That’s life for me basically; a learning experience…[/quote]Proverbs 1:7

119

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Before I do go, you and your wife are in my prayers Tiribulus. A lot of hurting out there right now, and I’m sure sorry you and your wife have experienced your share of it. But, it certainly does sound as if you have some wonderful and loving people in your life, both at church and at home. God bless![/quote]
Thank you

120

[quote]alex789 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Wow, some atheists with tolerance toward another persons beliefs. On this board that is quite rare indeed.[/quote]

It’s the exact opposite.
Atheists are nice people. Like on this board.
We pretty much have no lobby.

The christian lobby is nearly two thousand years old, has it’s own state and is so powerful, their workforce routinely sodomizes little children with little to no personal repercussions. Probably to show they CAN do it.

[/quote]

I was speaking about the atheists on this board. And I will stand by my original statement.

If I were to peel it back another layer everyone would find that at the very essence of atheism (on this board) seems to be rebellion. The transparency is remarkable. I get it, you are young, strong, were not raised in a Christian household, or you were influenced by the university you attend(ed). And you don’t believe in God. (BIG YAWN) nothing, absolutely NOTHING new about this.

Furthermore, the very things that you accuse me and other Christians of, you and other atheists do in spades. What you don’t realize is that your “faith” is not believing in God and you are just as vocal (if not more so) as myself, or any other Christian who drones on about his faith. That you don’t see this is absolutely amusing.

[/quote]

But couldn’t you say that this is just due to the fact that the norm in America still is Christianity, so of course going against that has some sort of ‘rebellious’ qualities about it?[/quote]

Yes.

I guess it depends on your definition of “faith”. Some atheists are just as fervent as the most devout Christian. And go forward with the same desire to change peoples minds. I’d say they turn-off as many people to atheism as do the Christians who stand out on street corners and act like idiots. I’m actually thankful for the many mean spirited atheists that we meet here on T Nation. I know they think they’re clever but they come off as hate filled idiots and do nothing to further their cause, thank God :slight_smile: