I’m very sorry to hear that T, i didn’t realise you still have such a hard time.
I do wish you all the best, and that the near future becomes less problematic.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Yeah, that must be it.
How goes it, T?[/quote]Honestly? “IT” is at least as bad and maybe worse than “it” has ever been in my entire life. I’m being quite serious, but I am more than a conqueror through Him that loved me and gave Himself for me. If I didn’t know that tomorrow morning I would wake up under the perfect providence of the most high God I would blow my brains out right now.
how bout you?
[/quote]
Tiribulus, sorry to hear that things are tough right now. And I’m glad your faith is helping you through it. Hang in there man!
Well thank you guys. I do believe both of you mean that, but I must confess that I also believe Ephrem is being a bit more sincere. I’m pretty certain though that you’re both thinking “wth, if it’s helping him cope what harm can some ridiculous antique God delusions do”?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Well thank you guys. I do believe both of you mean that, but I must confess that I also believe Ephrem is being a bit more sincere. I’m pretty certain though that you’re both thinking “wth, if it’s helping him cope what harm can some ridiculous antique God delusions do”?[/quote]
Yes, I meant it. Just because I disagree with you doesn’t mean I don’t like you or wish you happiness.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Well thank you guys. I do believe both of you mean that, but I must confess that I also believe Ephrem is being a bit more sincere. I’m pretty certain though that you’re both thinking “wth, if it’s helping him cope what harm can some ridiculous antique God delusions do”?[/quote]
No, actually T, i’m wondering: why doesn’t it get easier?
[quote]ephrem wrote:<<< No, actually T, I’m wondering: why doesn’t it get easier?[/quote]Are you asking why, if God’s on my side should life be this tough?
I believe you Elder forlife and thank you again.
God is on everyone’s side but if you are a Christian, you maintain the belief that is scandalous to the people “of this world”, namely that triumph and glory come from enduring suffering.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:<<< No, actually T, I’m wondering: why doesn’t it get easier?[/quote]Are you asking why, if God’s on my side should life be this tough?
[/quote]
Yes.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:<<< No, actually T, I’m wondering: why doesn’t it get easier?[/quote]Are you asking why, if God’s on my side should life be this tough?
[/quote]
Yes. [/quote]
Because suffering isn’t intrinsically bad. In most cases a greater good can come from suffering.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:<<< No, actually T, I’m wondering: why doesn’t it get easier?[/quote]Are you asking why, if God’s on my side should life be this tough?
[/quote]
Yes. [/quote]
Because suffering isn’t intrinsically bad. In most cases a greater good can come from suffering. [/quote]
Speak for yourself. Altough i agree that lessons can/should be learned from suffering, suffering in itself is generally needless.
If one suffers through life, one should take the necessary steps to aleviate that suffering if one desires so.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:<<< No, actually T, I’m wondering: why doesn’t it get easier?[/quote]Are you asking why, if God’s on my side should life be this tough?
[/quote]
Yes. [/quote]
Because suffering isn’t intrinsically bad. In most cases a greater good can come from suffering. [/quote]
Speak for yourself. Altough i agree that lessons can/should be learned from suffering, suffering in itself is generally needless.
If one suffers through life, one should take the necessary steps to aleviate that suffering if one desires so.
[/quote]
Suffering is needless is part of the philosophy of materialism. I don’t find materialism convincing, so you can see my hesitance to concur that suffering is needless. Though, I do not disagree that one should take reasonable steps to alleviate pain, unless one is using it as an offering. 
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Speak for yourself. Altough i agree that lessons can/should be learned from suffering, suffering in itself is generally needless.
If one suffers through life, one should take the necessary steps to aleviate that suffering if one desires so.
[/quote]
Suffering is needless is part of the philosophy of materialism. I don’t find materialism convincing, so you can see my hesitance to concur that suffering is needless. Though, I do not disagree that one should take reasonable steps to alleviate pain, unless one is using it as an offering. :)[/quote]
I’m not a masochist and abstain from self-flagellation Chris. I think that’s a ridiculous notion, and a malignant one.
Ofcourse suffering is not just feeling pain, physically or emotionally, suffering is the rejection of pain; “I don’t want this. Why me?”.
I believe that institutionalised religion does not teach people how to alleviate suffering for themselves, but merely covers it with a comfortblanket without really adressing the issue.
If you have few problems to begin with this is fine ofcourse, but for someone with a mountain of troubles the story is different.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
I believe that institutionalised religion does not teach people how to alleviate suffering for themselves, but merely covers it with a comfortblanket without really adressing the issue.
If you have few problems to begin with this is fine ofcourse, but for someone with a mountain of troubles the story is different.[/quote]
What makes your way better?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Speak for yourself. Altough i agree that lessons can/should be learned from suffering, suffering in itself is generally needless.
If one suffers through life, one should take the necessary steps to aleviate that suffering if one desires so.
[/quote]
Suffering is needless is part of the philosophy of materialism. I don’t find materialism convincing, so you can see my hesitance to concur that suffering is needless. Though, I do not disagree that one should take reasonable steps to alleviate pain, unless one is using it as an offering. :)[/quote]
I’m not a masochist and abstain from self-flagellation Chris. I think that’s a ridiculous notion, and a malignant one.
Ofcourse suffering is not just feeling pain, physically or emotionally, suffering is the rejection of pain; “I don’t want this. Why me?”.
I believe that institutionalised religion does not teach people how to alleviate suffering for themselves, but merely covers it with a comfortblanket without really adressing the issue.
If you have few problems to begin with this is fine ofcourse, but for someone with a mountain of troubles the story is different.[/quote]
There’s something to be said for a comfort blanket.
That said, religion can actually create and perpetuate unnecessary suffering by judging and punishing people based on unproven beliefs. For example, there have been many gay suicides because people couldn’t reconcile their religious beliefs with their sexual orientation.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
I believe that institutionalised religion does not teach people how to alleviate suffering for themselves, but merely covers it with a comfortblanket without really adressing the issue.
If you have few problems to begin with this is fine ofcourse, but for someone with a mountain of troubles the story is different.[/quote]
What makes your way better?
[/quote]
Because it works for me. I’m not saying what i did to go beyond my own suffering will work for everyone, just that if faith and religion is not enough to end a cycle of suffering, perhaps religion does not have the answer.
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
I’m not a masochist and abstain from self-flagellation Chris. I think that’s a ridiculous notion, and a malignant one.
Ofcourse suffering is not just feeling pain, physically or emotionally, suffering is the rejection of pain; “I don’t want this. Why me?”.
I believe that institutionalised religion does not teach people how to alleviate suffering for themselves, but merely covers it with a comfortblanket without really adressing the issue.
If you have few problems to begin with this is fine ofcourse, but for someone with a mountain of troubles the story is different.[/quote]
There’s something to be said for a comfort blanket.
That said, religion can actually create and perpetuate unnecessary suffering by judging and punishing people based on unproven beliefs. For example, there have been many gay suicides because people couldn’t reconcile their religious beliefs with their sexual orientation.
[/quote]
A comfort blanket is not a solution, and religion is not a solution to personal suffering.
As you said, it often creates more suffering.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
I’m not a masochist and abstain from self-flagellation Chris. I think that’s a ridiculous notion, and a malignant one.
Ofcourse suffering is not just feeling pain, physically or emotionally, suffering is the rejection of pain; “I don’t want this. Why me?”.
I believe that institutionalised religion does not teach people how to alleviate suffering for themselves, but merely covers it with a comfortblanket without really adressing the issue.
If you have few problems to begin with this is fine ofcourse, but for someone with a mountain of troubles the story is different.[/quote]
There’s something to be said for a comfort blanket.
That said, religion can actually create and perpetuate unnecessary suffering by judging and punishing people based on unproven beliefs. For example, there have been many gay suicides because people couldn’t reconcile their religious beliefs with their sexual orientation.
[/quote]
A comfort blanket is not a solution, and religion is not a solution to personal suffering.
As you said, it often creates more suffering.
[/quote]
I don’t think it’s either/or, but can be both.
Just because religion can cause suffering doesn’t mean it doesn’t help alleviate suffering in some cases.
For example, faith can provide a cancer patient with peace of mind, reduced stress, less pain and anxiety, and a stronger will to live. All good things.
However, if faith causes the believer to forego medical treatments, it can actually hurt them more than it helps.
Tiribulus recently shared how his faith has helped him through a difficult period, where he otherwise would have given up hope. How is that a bad thing?
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
There’s something to be said for a comfort blanket.
That said, religion can actually create and perpetuate unnecessary suffering by judging and punishing people based on unproven beliefs. For example, there have been many gay suicides because people couldn’t reconcile their religious beliefs with their sexual orientation.
[/quote]
A comfort blanket is not a solution, and religion is not a solution to personal suffering.
As you said, it often creates more suffering.
[/quote]
I don’t think it’s either/or, but can be both.
Just because religion can cause suffering doesn’t mean it doesn’t help alleviate suffering in some cases.
For example, faith can provide a cancer patient with peace of mind, reduced stress, less pain and anxiety, and a stronger will to live. All good things.
However, if faith causes the believer to forego medical treatments, it can actually hurt them more than it helps.
Tiribulus recently shared how his faith has helped him through a difficult period, where he otherwise would have given up hope. How is that a bad thing?[/quote]
It’s not a bad thing per se, but i look for solutions. I want a problem solved not mitigated.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
There’s something to be said for a comfort blanket.
That said, religion can actually create and perpetuate unnecessary suffering by judging and punishing people based on unproven beliefs. For example, there have been many gay suicides because people couldn’t reconcile their religious beliefs with their sexual orientation.
[/quote]
A comfort blanket is not a solution, and religion is not a solution to personal suffering.
As you said, it often creates more suffering.
[/quote]
I don’t think it’s either/or, but can be both.
Just because religion can cause suffering doesn’t mean it doesn’t help alleviate suffering in some cases.
For example, faith can provide a cancer patient with peace of mind, reduced stress, less pain and anxiety, and a stronger will to live. All good things.
However, if faith causes the believer to forego medical treatments, it can actually hurt them more than it helps.
Tiribulus recently shared how his faith has helped him through a difficult period, where he otherwise would have given up hope. How is that a bad thing?[/quote]
It’s not a bad thing per se, but i look for solutions. I want a problem solved not mitigated.
[/quote]
Sure, but not all problems can be solved and mitigation is the best you can do. Religious beliefs can comfort people when a loved one dies, for example.
Overall though, I’m with you. I prefer to know the truth, or at least to admit my ignorance when I don’t have the answers, rather than take comfort in something I only want to be true.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
I believe that institutionalised religion does not teach people how to alleviate suffering for themselves, but merely covers it with a comfortblanket without really adressing the issue.
If you have few problems to begin with this is fine ofcourse, but for someone with a mountain of troubles the story is different.[/quote]
What makes your way better?
[/quote]
Because it works for me. I’m not saying what i did to go beyond my own suffering will work for everyone, just that if faith and religion is not enough to end a cycle of suffering, perhaps religion does not have the answer.
[/quote]
You might be surprised to learn that religious-type weirdos often have a number of different coping mechanisms in addition to the foundation their church provides them.