Two other factors in this fight I forgot to mention. One, Shields has shown a great chin and resiliency in his fights. I want to say Lawler caught him a couple times before Shields submitted him, and more recently the Hendo fight. When I saw it live I thought for sure that fight was over. Off the top of my head, I can’t remember anyone getting hit cleanly by Hendo and not being finished.
The second thing is Shields is a big WW. He can legitimately fight at MW and was not undersized there. I don’t know if GSP will be able to control him like he has other guys. Still not changing my pick, but a couple more things to consider.
Game plan - fight where the opponent is least comfortable.
Skills set - GSP is probably the best all round fighter, i.e. no big holes in his game.
Experience - GSP has fought, IMO, better fighters than Shields on a bigger stage.
BUT… Shields weathered a bad 1st round with Hendo and then avoided the big right to out-wrestle and control the top game. I don’t see him getting past GSP but who knows…
[quote]humpty wrote:
My head says that GSP has got this on:
Game plan - fight where the opponent is least comfortable.
Skills set - GSP is probably the best all round fighter, i.e. no big holes in his game.
Experience - GSP has fought, IMO, better fighters than Shields on a bigger stage.
BUT… Shields weathered a bad 1st round with Hendo and then avoided the big right to out-wrestle and control the top game. I don’t see him getting past GSP but who knows…[/quote]
The thing is that Hendo has a big overhand right (and a decent left hook), but that’s about it striking wise. I’ve yet to see him effectively utilize a jab the way I’ve seen GSP do lately. Being 1 dimensional makes you a lot easier to deal with, especially when that one dimension leaves you over committed if you miss, doesn’t really maintain distance effectively (because of it’s looping trajectory), and is pretty telegraphed in most cases.
Kudos to Shields for outwrestling him though. Yet another reason why I think GSP will keep this one on the feet.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
When I first heard of this match-up I automatically assumed that GSP would probably win. But now I’m not so sure. Shields may have the ability to stuff GSP’s take-downs (if GSP’s strategy is to take him down). And I watched Kos take GSP down 2 or 3. So will Shields be able to take down GSP and administer a little GnP? Shields is superb on the ground (ask Dan Henderson). Or, will GSP do to Shields what he did to Kos on the feet, pick him apart with jabs.
I am absolutely torn on this one.
What do you guys think? [/quote]
not trying to be a dick. but how often do you watch mma and how much do you know about it. You do realize that Sheilds has absolutely no stand up whatsoever. its laughable. Sheilds wins by submission. thats how he wins. not by ground and pound. when he fought dan henderson, he was almost knocked out in the 1st round. then henderson gassed and sheilds layed on him the next 4 rounds(i forget if it was a title match) either way, he won cause henderson gassed.
Now, St. Pierre, may not even want to take this to the ground. he may just choose to keep it standing and defend shields take downs. he will eat shields up all day long on the feet. but st. pierre will most likely mix it up like he always does. but don’t be surprised if he keeps it on the feet alot more this fight. remember shields only chance of winning is if he catches pierre in a submission. either way, unless a surprise submission by shields happens, i predict a 3rd stoppage. and pierre will win.
Can’t believe all this talk and no-one has posted this video yet
I’d say the call that GSP is going to keep both feet on the ground and do damage with his hands is a good one.
Also just me or is GSP really fucking big now.[/quote]
Gee, the kid is talented. He’s not perfect but his style is getting better and he’s looking more like a boxer with his movement. You can still see some problems with his weight transfer but Freddie will knead them out. One thing I love about Freddies style is the old always move to your opponents left (orthodox fighters). In MMA, they all seem to fall into default mode and move to the right. You can see every time he finishes a combo and he’s off to the left how it leaves the opponent open for a right cross or hook follow up and leaves you away from their power hand.
Can’t believe all this talk and no-one has posted this video yet
I’d say the call that GSP is going to keep both feet on the ground and do damage with his hands is a good one.
Also just me or is GSP really fucking big now.[/quote]
Gee, the kid is talented. He’s not perfect but his style is getting better and he’s looking more like a boxer with his movement. You can still see some problems with his weight transfer but Freddie will knead them out. One thing I love about Freddies style is the old always move to your opponents left (orthodox fighters). In MMA, they all seem to fall into default mode and move to the right. You can see every time he finishes a combo and he’s off to the left how it leaves the opponent open for a right cross or hook follow up and leaves you away from their power hand.
[/quote]
I was taught to move/slip to the “outside” as well. Interestingly though when I got a chance to train with Joe Lake (Mickey Ward’s long time advisor/boxing coach, and boxing coach to several pro MMA fighters out of the Boston area), he taught to slip/move to the opponent’s “inside” because it provides more opportunities for counter punching (at least from a pure boxing standpoint). So, I’m not sure that either is necessarily right or wrong, just different approaches/disadvantages/advantages.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
I was taught to move/slip to the “outside” as well. Interestingly though when I got a chance to train with Joe Lake (Mickey Ward’s long time advisor/boxing coach, and boxing coach to several pro MMA fighters out of the Boston area), he taught to slip/move to the opponent’s “inside” because it provides more opportunities for counter punching (at least from a pure boxing standpoint). So, I’m not sure that either is necessarily right or wrong, just different approaches/disadvantages/advantages. [/quote]
I think slipping outside is “the rule”, but like all “rules”, it’s meant to be broken/modified as you become more proficient.
I was always taught to slip outside as well, in competition and in self defense. It limits the other guy more than it limits you, which isn’t always true of going inside.
[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
I was always taught to slip outside as well, in competition and in self defense. It limits the other guy more than it limits you, which isn’t always true of going inside.[/quote]
Yeah, Coach Lake pointed out that he was approaching things from a purely boxing standpoint. In a self defense situation going to the outside is much safer IMO.
It will most likely be a boring lay and pray fight won by dec for GSP… However I like the odds on Shields in Vegas hes got a better shot then the odds makers say. So based on that I got money on shields…
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
i’m looking forward to this…i love watching Aldo, am curious to see the Couture-Machida fight, as well as Nate Diaz and GSP.
no other insight…just pumped to be off work this night and be able to get this card![/quote]
I don’t see good things for Couture fighting Machida. We have possible the slowest (and oldest) fighter in the division fighting one of the fastest. Yes, Couture is great in the clinch but he first has to get him in the clinch without potentially taking multiple fight ending blows. Yes, Couture could win this, but I would never bet on it.
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
It will most likely be a boring lay and pray fight won by dec for GSP… However I like the odds on Shields in Vegas hes got a better shot then the odds makers say. So based on that I got money on shields… [/quote]
I’d like to know your definition of “lay and pray”. It has been well over used lately and I doubt most who say it actually know what they even mean. That is not to say that you don’t that’s why I’m asking for your definition.
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
i’m looking forward to this…i love watching Aldo, am curious to see the Couture-Machida fight, as well as Nate Diaz and GSP.
no other insight…just pumped to be off work this night and be able to get this card![/quote]
I don’t see good things for Couture fighting Machida. We have possible the slowest (and oldest) fighter in the division fighting one of the fastest. Yes, Couture is great in the clinch but he first has to get him in the clinch without potentially taking multiple fight ending blows. Yes, Couture could win this, but I would never bet on it.[/quote]
I am an admitted Machida fan, so that may be clouding my judgement (that emotion thing you talked about. Course when I pick Vera again that will be a pure lack of intellect on my part so…). I see Machida winning the fight and losing the decision. I am interested to see them clinch. Randy has the best greco/wrestling skills of any of Machida’s opponents to date, but the way Machida handled Nakamura, Sokoudjou, and Ortiz makes me doubt Couture will be able to dictate the clinch game to his usual degree. If it goes to decision I think Couture wins because its Couture.
I still pick GSP. I would feel foolish betting against Aldo.
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
It will most likely be a boring lay and pray fight won by dec for GSP… However I like the odds on Shields in Vegas hes got a better shot then the odds makers say. So based on that I got money on shields… [/quote]
I’d like to know your definition of “lay and pray”. It has been well over used lately and I doubt most who say it actually know what they even mean. That is not to say that you don’t that’s why I’m asking for your definition.[/quote]
I am not trying to speak for anyone else, but this is a topic (Lay and Pray vs Ground and Pound) that I have thought about. I do not think “Lay and Pray” really exists under unified(not Pride/Japanese) rules. In my opinion the two fighters that come the closest to reliably doing it are Matt Lindland and Chael Sonnen. If we take Silva vs Sonnen, I think Sonnen won between 23 and 24 minutes of that fight. He landed hundreds of strikes on the ground. However, at the end of the fight Silva was not all that battered.
Sonnen definetely prioritized ground control and pressure compared to damage when he was in a position to do so. I still would not call that Lay and Pray though, because under unified rules it is a legit way to win rounds. Under Pride style rules, a dozen shots from Silva on the feet could have made the fight his based on damage. I am not knocking Sonnen for using that style, if anything I will criticize him getting lazy about it in the last 20 seconds.
Contrast Sonnen’s style with the recent Fitch vs Penn fight. In that fight Fitch used his top game to injure Penn, not Lay and Pray. Another fantastic example is Lesnar vs Mir II, again Lesnar was not looking for clock time.
[quote]Sliver wrote:
IF GSP wins it’s going to be a split decision. Shields is going to take this to the ground and there’s nothing GSP can do to stop it.[/quote]
I wish I could find someone like you around these parts to wager some cash on that…
If Shields wins it will be because GSP messes up and doesn’t stick to the game plan… and he’s very good at sticking to the game plan. He beats Shields solidly on all but a single area of the game…
gsp make have better striking but he can’t try taking down shields because if he does shields will have him right where he wants him. his best bet is to do what he did with koscheck and ping him with jabs for 5 rounds.
