I would say the US practices Benevolent Imperialism. I do not know any other nation in history that actual sends money to the lands it conquers rather than taking money away.
I think this is the point rainjack is trying to make. about the last 90 years of US “imperialism.”
“Communism is parasitic in theory and practice. The only difference between Communism and socialism is were the guns are. Communism is socialism enacted from the barel of a gun.”
Communism is a form of socialism. There are many other forms, just ask (again, sorry for using the same examples over and over again) Sweden. It’s not just socialism backed by force.
"nopal_juventus wrote:
I am Mexican (born in San Diego though, so I’m also a U.S. citizen).
“Hrrrm… You were born in SD, and a US Citizen, but your Mexican. SOrry dude, you’re an AMERICAN! Not a Latino-American, not a Mexican-American, your a Bloody American.”
Ever heard of dual citizenship?
I’m not ashamed or anything of the sort for being a U.S. citizen (the American thing gets on everyone else’s nerves, it’s extremely arrogant to imply that you ‘are’ America), if anything I’m proud to be part of such a diverse nation, but I’ve always considered myself Mexican, because I lived most of my life there and I identifyn myself much more with Chicano culture.
"nopal_juventus wrote:
I personally think though that it’s better to become isolationist and block people out than to exploit them for all they got.
Guess a policy like this would have made it hard for you to be a US citizen."
Yeah, it would’ve. Luckily it didn’t. I’d still rather be blocked out of the U.S. than have it control my country.
"I do not know any other nation in history that actual sends money to the lands it conquers rather than taking money away. " Zap B.
Explain to me how the US is able to run such a massive deficit, one that if it were any other country would have the IMF jumping on it quicker than a playboy bunny giving it up for free ?. Whatever the US dolls out is because of self-interest, its the crux of American society, and its the extension of governement policies.
Bretton-Woods for example, the driving force behind it wasn’t a massive desire to restruct and rehabilitate Europe, documents in the shape of memos and plans clearly show that the overall force was a desire to buffer communism.
I’m not anti-US before I get jumped over by the right-wingers on this forum. I call it as I see it. My belief is that any nation that is the single most powerful nation seeks to further its own interest and those of its citizens. Its the means and rationale that sometimes comes into question. Its the blinkered vision of some of the forum posters who think the US are some sort of cowboys rolling in to save the day for everybody, they are transfixed with this notion that they are the “good guys”. The news is that a the majority of the world don’t actually hold that opinion, most non-American are ambivalent to the nature of the US. I personally don’t think they are the “good guys” but also they aren’t that “bad” either, they are just acting to further their own economic needs.
[quote]jeru72 wrote:
…
Bretton-Woods for example, the driving force behind it wasn’t a massive desire to restruct and rehabilitate Europe, documents in the shape of memos and plans clearly show that the overall force was a desire to buffer communism.
…
[/quote]
Of course the US acts in it’s own self interest. It just so happens that we believe freedom and prosperity around the world is actually good for us too.
Not only is the US government generous, so are its citizens.
I don’t think that can be said of the great Soviet Empire.
No matter what social structure there will always be a someone dominant.
The world today is fortunate that the US is the dominant force, rather than the old Soviet Union, Red China, Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan or any of the other “Alpha Male” empires of recent history.
"Of course the US acts in it’s own self interest. It just so happens that we believe freedom and prosperity around the world is actually good for us too.
Not only is the US government generous, so are its citizens.
I don’t think that can be said of the great Soviet Empire.
No matter what social structure there will always be a someone dominant.
The world today is fortunate that the US is the dominant force, rather than the old Soviet Union, Red China, Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan or any of the other “Alpha Male” empires of recent history."
Yes, but that doesn’t mean that everything that it does is for the good of the world, or that it’ll sometimes (I’d like to say mostly, but I’d get flamed again) exploit other nations to better its own economy, or sometimes even just that of its leaders. Just because the U.S. isn’t as bad as Red Russia or Nazi Germany doesn’t make it good.
The army cleared the troops of any wrongdoing.
The army does a pretty thorough job investigating these types of things so my guess is they acted correctly.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Except for the fact that communism stands in direct opposition with everything a free-market society stands for, is opposed to everything our constitution was founded on, and regards the gov’t as the caretaker of the masses - nothing is wrong with it.[/quote]
The free market in this country is highly regulated (i.e not free), the Constitution has been completely disregarded for at least half a century, and the government is, indeed, the “caretaker of the masses”, thanks to the implementation of the welfare state. I hope this doesn’t derail your argument.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
The U.S. imperialistic? Not in the last 90 years, or so. [/quote]
Hahahaha, good one.
[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
"Of course the US acts in it’s own self interest. It just so happens that we believe freedom and prosperity around the world is actually good for us too.
Not only is the US government generous, so are its citizens.
I don’t think that can be said of the great Soviet Empire.
No matter what social structure there will always be a someone dominant.
The world today is fortunate that the US is the dominant force, rather than the old Soviet Union, Red China, Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan or any of the other “Alpha Male” empires of recent history."
Yes, but that doesn’t mean that everything that it does is for the good of the world, or that it’ll sometimes (I’d like to say mostly, but I’d get flamed again) exploit other nations to better its own economy, or sometimes even just that of its leaders. Just because the U.S. isn’t as bad as Red Russia or Nazi Germany doesn’t make it good. [/quote]
Not everything the US does is “good”, but it does more good than any other “superpower” in history.
It is naive to expect the US to act like Mother Theresa.
"Not everything the US does is “good”, but it does more good than any other “superpower” in history.
It is naive to expect the US to act like Mother Theresa."
My point exactly. Yet too many people here believe otherwise, and have unwavering faith in the goverment.
[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
"Not everything the US does is “good”, but it does more good than any other “superpower” in history.
It is naive to expect the US to act like Mother Theresa."
My point exactly. Yet too many people here believe otherwise, and have unwavering faith in the goverment.[/quote]
I have faith in the US government, and in the ideals we established back in the times of our founding fathers. Sometimes things don’t work out the way we want them to. Sometimes we make mistakes. The fact that we Americans aren’t perfect doesn’t change the fact that at least we give a shit about y’all in other countries, and we are doing what we can right now to change the world to make it a better place. It’s not an easy job, you know. A lot of you assholes aren’t doing much to help… quite the opposite a lot of the time.
So give us a friggin’ break.
I have an idea: howsabout y’all HELP US instead of whine about how terrible we are?
Just a thought.
I’d just like one of you needle dicked kids to tell me exactly, and precisely, the U.S.'s imperialistic conquests.
Name one.
Punk asses.
Ummm… let’s see…
I already posted that link, yet you conviniently choose to iignore it.
[quote]Al Shades wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Except for the fact that communism stands in direct opposition with everything a free-market society stands for, is opposed to everything our constitution was founded on, and regards the gov’t as the caretaker of the masses - nothing is wrong with it.
The free market in this country is highly regulated (i.e not free), the Constitution has been completely disregarded for at least half a century, and the government is, indeed, the “caretaker of the masses”, thanks to the implementation of the welfare state. I hope this doesn’t derail your argument.
rainjack wrote:
The U.S. imperialistic? Not in the last 90 years, or so.
Hahahaha, good one.[/quote]
How would you know. You’ve never participated in the economy or any of it’s oversea’s work.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
I’d just like one of you needle dicked kids to tell me exactly, and precisely, the U.S.'s imperialistic conquests.
Name one.
Punk asses.[/quote]
First, realize that imperialism is a policy. It does not necessarily have to result in conquests. Now here’s one: Afghanistan, 2002.
[quote]hedo wrote:
How would you know. You’ve never participated in the economy or any of it’s oversea’s work.[/quote]
How would you know?
[You know you’ve got a pathetic argument when it can be turned around and pitted against you verbatim]
[quote]Al Shades wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I’d just like one of you needle dicked kids to tell me exactly, and precisely, the U.S.'s imperialistic conquests.
Name one.
Punk asses.
First, realize that imperialism is a policy. It does not necessarily have to result in conquests. Now here’s one: Afghanistan, 2002.
hedo wrote:
How would you know. You’ve never participated in the economy or any of it’s oversea’s work.
How would you know?
[You know you’ve got a pathetic argument when it can be turned around and pitted against you verbatim][/quote]
How the fuck do you think I would know you pompous twit?
I own a business and have served in the army overseas. In other words I have contributed to the economy that you read about and served the government that you mock.
You pathetic attempt to “turn my argument around” speaks volumes about your immaturity. Some here think your precocious. I don’t I think you are a clown.
Give mommy back her computer now and run along.
Like I said before you talking about the economy, government etc. makes as much sense as you giving dating advice.
You missed the point, completely. I was asking how you could possibly know that I’ve “never participated in the economy or any of it’s oversea’s work.” You don’t know that and your argument is pathetic.
[quote]Al Shades wrote:
You missed the point, completely. I was asking how you could possibly know that I’ve “never participated in the economy or any of it’s oversea’s work.” You don’t know that and your argument is pathetic. [/quote]
No Al you are pathetic. You are a child pretending he knows something of the world.
I am not talking about a paper route or mowing lawns.
Grow up. When you have then you can come back and debate with men.
That’s the point you missed.
Ya know I wasnt going to reply to this thread,…but I JUST HAD TOO!! LOL
Anyhow, both sides in the argument are correct in many ways. The US is "
“benevolent” or as benevolent a business can be (ie. they make profit…and as much as the market will bear) on what it does.
It is the best country in the world for being given the CHANCE to make something out of nothing.
But it is built on gambling principals and good hard work combined.
Yeah we do go overseas and make mincemeat out of alot of communities in the long run, and we do allow our business to “run amuck” in other countries. I am not saying that this is the BIG BAD US, the companies are just practicing GOOD business sense. They take what they can and stockpile for rainy days…thats good business. $0% of the worlds resources are used here in the US every year but we’re not even close to that in population comparision.
Is this wrong? maybe/maybe not
Socialism has worked in part in many instances…ie. small towns and small countries. Something just doesnt seem to click when its applied to large communities. Sweden is small and as such is easier to handle (I’m guessing). Socialism is a beautiful theory and would work if man were essentially good… we’re not!! But pure capitalism isn’t good either, just look at Walmart and the destruction that it has done on many communities around the country. Hell, They had to enact monopoly laws to balance “capitalism” out… this is good.
Basically there is no perfect or probably even no good gov’t and hey it is a dog-eat-dog world …has been and always will. So before we all just go pointing fingers… remember someone will always be fucked so someone will make it. IT’S LIFE…
IN MY OPINION 
So basically, I should wait 10 years or so before stating the truth, according to you.
And the rational explanation for this?
I would love to hear one.
If you tout the line about having “radical” views due to my “youthful inexperience”, I’ll gladly refer you to people much older than you who possess the very same views. Harry Browne, for one. Congressman Ron Paul of Texas, as another.
The “age” clause which you and others continually use as a crutch to bolster your dirt-poor and utterly pathetic arguments is pure bullshit.
Grow up and get a real argument, child.
[quote]Al Shades wrote:
So basically, I should wait 10 years or so before stating the truth, according to you.
And the rational explanation for this?
I would love to hear one.
If you tout the line about having “radical” views due to my “youthful inexperience”, I’ll gladly refer you to people much older than you who possess the very same views. Harry Browne, for one. Congressman Ron Paul of Texas, as another.
The “age” clause which you and others continually use as a crutch to bolster your dirt-poor and utterly pathetic arguments is pure bullshit.
Grow up and get a real argument, child.[/quote]
Your funny! For a high school kid.
I gave up arguing with high school kids when I got out of high school.
It’s no crutch boy, it’s a statement of the obvious.
Go surf some porn. Your boring me. Don’t mistake boredom for anything else son. Your just to boring to deal with. Prefer to debate with men not boys.
Give Harry a kiss for the rest of us.