Got Approval for 250IU HCG EOD

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
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I sent the following study to my age management specialist and asked to get on 250IU HCG every other day. I got the approval today

(As posted earlier, 250IU twice/week improved my mood, appetite and eliminated some soreness of my testicles that started with test cyp 100mg/week HRT… which I attribute to my vasectomy of 5-6 years ago. Some water retention, but now gone. Will report observations, if any, with this new dosing.)

My summary of the study: The study measured testosterone inside the testicles (ITT) by drawing out fluid with a syringe (guess why not a long term study!) and measuring baseline test inside the testes, then shut down the [LH] with 200mg test ethanate every week. Then HCG was given every other day in various doses to determine what amounts were required to restore testicular function using ITT as a proxy.

The study:
Low-dose human chorionic gonadotropin maintains intratesticular testosterone in normal men with testosterone-induced gonadotropin suppression.

Andrea D Coviello, Alvin M Matsumoto, William J Bremner, Karen L Herbst, John K Amory, Bradley D Anawalt, Paul R Sutton, William W Wright, Terry R Brown, Xiaohua Yan, Barry R Zirkin, Jonathan P Jarow
In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally, we determined the dose-response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and ITT to ascertain the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate weekly in combination with either saline placebo or 125, 250, or 500 IU hCG every other day for 3 wk. ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and at the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/liter) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/liter). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline, respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 to 72 nmol/liter) in the T enanthate/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Posttreatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 May ;90:2595-602 [Pubmed] [Scholar] [Select] [Hide]

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[quote]KSman wrote:
The study measured testosterone inside the testicles (ITT) by drawing out fluid with a syringe (guess why not a long term study!)
[/quote]

I couldnt quite work out from the info whether or not you stuck a needle in your own balls to draw out fluid. Can you please confirm?

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I’m on 100IU QD. Are you saying 250 IU QOD is better? How have you felt differently since changing, or if it hasn’t been long enough, please let us know.

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[quote]Helga wrote:

I couldn’t quite work out from the info whether or not you stuck a needle in your own balls to draw out fluid. Can you please confirm?[/quote]

The participants in the study [aka victims] had needles in their nuts to measure ITT before and after. That provides some dosing guidlines and we do not need to get needles in our nuts.

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[quote]bigdawg011 wrote:
I’m on 100IU QD. Are you saying 250 IU QOD is better? How have you felt differently since changing, or if it hasn’t been long enough, please let us know.[/quote]

I do not know if it is better, but from a HRT point of view, this study does provide a dosing guideline for restoring this one aspect of the testicular function. It seems to be a compelling argument. The use of HCG has been a problem as there has never been a good research based dosing guidance. For short term things, huge doses have been used. We do know that too much will down regulate the LH receptors and that must be considered damaging from the perspective of TRT objectives. I think that I am breaking new ground in a way, but the rational is about as sound as one can hope for.

I have just started this, was doing 250IU two days a week. So I can’t report anything for a while.

As for every day VS every other day, I think that that does provide for a more normal thing. If taken early in the day, then one might be getting testosterone time profiles that are more natural.

Could 125 IU be better than 100 IU every day? The study suggests that that might be so. You are getting 700IU/week, I will be getting 875IU. Not a huge difference.

My dosing in on top of my test cyp. Doc did not want to do two changes at once, probably because he wants to see the effect of the HCG this way alone. So my .84ml goes back to .5ml or 100mg test cyp per week ;(

I think that I will do .14ml of test cyp(49ml/wk-98mg/wk) with 250IU of HCG every other day, then I do not have to inject every day. Injecting the test cyp oil with a #29 insulin syringe IM works well if the skin/fat is thin on the upper leg.

I use the syringes for more than one injection after loading… never putting a used syringe into the vial to avoid possible contamination of the vial.