Good Guard Dogs

Off Topic
161

My working GSD is too large and she weighs 84lb lean. A good Malinois ( see - YouTube ) weighs less again.

Nearly every video I have seen of livestock guardians doing protection work has been fairly poor, they’ll just take whatever you put in their mouth and even then they have a poor grip.

For larger dogs, Rotts are more effective and they are excellent family dogs and most don’t bark without a good reason. The largest I have seen that wasn’t just a big tub of sloppy lard was about 100-110lb, a friend has one who is much bigger but he gets gassed getting up onto the lounge.

162

That music made my ears bleed.

163

[quote]AussieOllie wrote:
That music made my ears bleed.
[/quote]

Open your heart, brother.

lol.

164

There is really some bad information in this thread.

First, many of you need to disabuse yourself of these romantic breed descriptions. Although some general descriptions of temperament and behavior or “generally” true, most are very misleading. Things like, loyal, “one family dog”, “natural” guardian and the like are romantic marketing speak and nothing more. First, most breeds are “loyal” because you feed and provide care; stop feeding them and see how loyal they are.

Next, this thread is really taking the wrong track. There are no “natural protectors”. There are breeds that do exhibit a better skill set for protection work, but you cannot go buy a puppy “out of the box” and expect that you will have such a dog. Unless you’re a professional, or a serious hobbyist, you’re better off thinking of a dog as an alarm or a deterrent and nothing more. There are definitely breeds that generally do not suffer strangers (Caucasion and it variants - known by different names, the Fila comes to mind) but those dogs can be very dangerous and are not appropriate for the average family or owner. Some of those dogs WILL bite and not always appropriately so. Are you prepared to live with that?

Many of the breeds mentioned here are simply not appropriate if you’re serious about a protection dog. The fact is, professionals take great care to select a breed and a young candidate and those dogs STILL wash out. A dog that may take a bite, may not stand up to stress or a fight. Many dogs cannot handle stress and don’t have the nerve to be true trained guard dogs. Many breeds mentioned here, particularly mollossers, are not particularly tractable, and being tractable is a must for protection work, lest you end up with a dog that will happily bite, but not take orders.

Many of you, like most dog owners, suffer from romantic notions of what your dog would do, but I assure you, that push come to shove, you are likely wrong. I’ve seen it time and time again when people take their dogs to various forms of protection training. I’ve seen it time and time again when people attempt to take their “show bred” working breed out to attempt to hunt. It’s a world of difference between a dog putting up a threat display to someone that is scared, and quite another thing for that dog to stay in the fight when that person is fighting the dog back and doing it harm. It takes a remarkable specimen to stand the rigors of protection training and come out the other end a reliable trustworthy protector.

What does all that mean? It means you are very unlikely to ever own such a dog unless you’re a professional or a very serious hobbyist. So get it out of your mind. Choose the breed you like, based on solid research for compatibility with you and your family, and be happy with it. You want protection? Lock your doors and take other appropriate safety measures and be happy your dog may deter a break in and may bark to warn you. And that’s all.

Random thoughts; there are no 250 lbs rotts unless they are grossly fat. There are not 140 lb GSD’s that can be used to work. 140lb is too big for a serious working GSD. Rhodesians cannot take down a lion single handledly - lmfao at that one. Many dogs mentioned here like Cane Corso’s and other mollossers have been bred for so long for show (in other words, bred for “beauty” without regard to much else), that they are worthless as serious protection trained candidates. You need only look no further than what professionals use when they want a protection breed. Overwhelmingly that is the GSD, malinois, and a few other select breeds. You do not find any mollosser in serious number and they would be the exception to the rule. Many mollosser breeds however make wonderful pets (properly bred) and will be a terrific visual deterrent and “sound the alarm”. Most mollosser breeds were working dogs and had a vocation. Sadly, none can do it anymore. For instance, the Presa Canario cannot even be called such because the modern day iteration of the breed is what they THINK the original was. I’ve wild boar hunted for 20 years now and have never seen a Presa engage or catch a hog, and I’ve seen a few try. Same with Cane Corso. I’ve seen more than my fair share of Cane Corso’s take a crack at protection training and most turned out to be weak nerved curs. And a weak nerved dog that has been trained to bite is a huge liability. I could go on and on and on.

So, if you’re serious about a protection dog, you need to think about the proper candidate breed first, but a close second is how that dog is bred. You simply cannot go to a show breeder and expect to get a serious working candidate. Show breeds and the hobbyist have done more to ruin dogs than anything else. If you want a serious working candidate, you need serious working parents and grandparents behind it. And you’d be lucky if such a breeder would sell a pet owner such a dog. I own and breed pitbulls and patterdale terriers. You could not show up with a fist full of money and buy a dog from me. They are not for sale. And most serious breeders of working dogs have high standards about who they will sell a dog to. I’d give a dog to another hunter or enthusiast before I’d sell one to a stranger - and most serious breeders feel the same way. And keep in mind, even getting a young pup or dog from a working dog breeder is not a guarantee. of success. The difference between the professional and you is that a professional will get rid of a dog that has washed out. A pet owner however is very unlikely to part with a dog it has bonded with. That’s why your chances of ever owning such a dog are slim. It’s why a thread like this, among pet owners, should be very realistic and geared toward what MOST any breed will do - provide an alarm - not save the day like in some movie or some newspaper clip.

Simply put, at the end of the day, most dogs are dogs, romantic breed descriptions aside. Are there differences? Yes, but they are largely overstated. They are canines, first and foremost and exhibit many of the same traits. Do they have different strengths and weaknesses, different temperaments? Sure. But most any dog will bond with its family and be “loyal”. And sorry to tell you, most dogs will happily change ownership when properly cared for by the new owner. This one owner dogs stuff is largely crap. Dogs are not people, so you’d be well advised to refrain from implying human characteristics to a dog (anthropomorphism). Dogs want shelter and food. Give them both and they will “love” you. They will also “love” someone else that does likewise.

Most of you here could never handle a serious working dog - and you wouldn’t want to. As I said before, a dog that will bite, even a dog that is trained to bite, is a huge responsibility and liability. 99% of you here will be fine with a dog that barks or a dog that looks like it will bite. I know this is a difficult subject for much to grasp. There is some terrible “marketing” information out there about various breeds. But trust me, I’ve bred dogs seriously for 20 years - and I know working dogs cold. I have some of the finest blood for my breed, and even they wash out, time and time again. I know serious protection enthusiasts and professionals, and not many dogs, no matter what breed, can stand up to serious protection training. Some do better than others - like I said, GSD’s, malinois, etc. - just look at what the professionals use (Police, Military, serious hobbyist). A dog that has started protection training and was not up to par, is a potentially dangerous animal. You know have a dog that has been trained it is okay to bite people, but doesn’t have the various other qualities to be trusted with that ability.

There is some good information in this thread and some very bad information. I don’t have time to pick thru it all. But I’d be happy to answer specific questions here or via PM.

165

[quote]St.George wrote:
Get a Caucasian Shepherd. It’s more of a lion than a dog, but it will serve you well.[/quote]

Potentially a very dangerous dog. I know a breeder of them. He likened them on man as to pitbull on other dog. They will bite. And they can do serious damage. This dog would have to be under lock and key to be safe; in other words, in a kennel or tied out. This means that such a dog would unlikely be around when you needed it. They do not suffer strangers very well. And unfortunately, the world, the neighborhood, etc., is filled with strangers. Do you really want that responsibility? Do you really need such a dog? Do you think the average person could handle such a serious animal?

166

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]jre67t wrote:
If it is just you and mom get an American Pitbull, real loyal and extremely territorial. They are aggressive though. Real smart dogs. Our dog catches rats and possums along with squirrels. There is stigma with pitbulls but if your trying to protect your house its a good stigma to have.[/quote]

If you get a well-bred pitbull, it will never show any aggression toward humans though, so it won’t be an effective guard dog. Dobermans and Rottweilers are bred to respond to a threat to their owners, whether from humans or another animal. A pitbull won’t respond the same way, unless it’s poorly bred and is therefore a bad dog to have around anyways. A well-bred pit will still exhibit aggression toward other animals without being overly aggressive toward other dogs, especially ones that are smaller than it.[/quote]

I’m sorry, but this is simply not true. How many of y’all that are commenting on pits have 'em or have spent significant time around the breed? I have 3 Razors Edge pits and they are all as loyal, loving and goofy as can be. They love people and other animals, but make no mistake if someone were to step to me or my family or try and get where they’re not wanted everyone of my dogs would [and have] take action. You do need to expose pits to other breeds early 'cause their heritage is as farm dogs. They’re critter getters at heart and if they’re not used to small dogs a rat terrier just looks like a rat. And for the record, I can take all of my dogs to the park and they’ll play with other dogs all day. The problem is that other dogs generally try to “test” them, especially my male. Because of this I no longer take him to the dog park. Oh, and even though BG and I have had our differences on this board the guy knows his dogs. People need to listen when he talks about dogs.[/quote]

You got some bullshit pits then. Pitbulls were bred starting in the 1880’s (in America) for fighting, plain and simple. They should have ZERO aggression toward humans because they were bred to be able to be pulled out of the ring in the middle of a fight by its owner or a referee without turning on the human. Any pitbull that does not meet this standard is an example of poor breeding. In the past, any pitbull that EVER showed aggression toward a human, especially unprovoked aggression, was shot on sight so that it would not contaminate the breed.

I’ve had three pitbulls, all of whom came from professional breeders who breed the dogs for temperament and conformation and looks, meaning that the dogs are bred to meet AKC and/or UKC standards. I’m very familiar with Razor’s Edge breeders and dogs. They’re bullshit dogs, period. They aren’t bred for anything other than the typical bully look and as a result factors like temperament, conformity and intelligence are cast aside. Their dogs don’t even approach the ideal look and temperament of a real pitbull. This is a link to a great breeder down in Florida that I got my current dog from. They breed for show, not rap videos like Razor’s Edge, and as a result their dogs are bred primarily for temperament and looks. My puppy is from the first pair of dogs shown (Steel and Blaze).

http://www.dogdayskennel.com/Available_Puppies_Page.htm[/quote]

Your information is only partially correct.

It is true the american pitbull terrier (and other bull terriers before the show breeding split) were bred as fighting dogs, among other things. And it is generally true that the breed knows as the pitbull is “generally” not human aggressive. However, many man biters have been tolerated throughout the years if they performed well in the pit. Many gamebred lines are littered with man biters. And select inbreeding which can be common in some lines will sometimes produce a nervous dog capable of biting. But as a GENERAL rule, pitbulls are pretty much submissive to human.

The american pitbull terrier is not registered with the AKC. You’re thinking another breed altogether and that breed is bred for looks and type, the very thing you implicitly rail against in your thread. They are show dogs. The working pitbull terrier is registered in the ADBA, among others. Those are the only “real” pitbulls. And “real” is only determined one way :slight_smile: - by performance, not how it is bred or how it looks. And I followed that link of yours and read the peds. There is nothing remarkable about those peds. They are show line peds and I’d argue that makes them not much different than the Razors Edge dogs you don’t like. I recognized very few dogs from any of those peds with the exception of some of the Kinard stuff which I can only assume was Leo Kinard. If not, then I don’t even recognize those dogs. Where you are also wrong is that there is no true “conformation” in the american pitbull terrier. The only “conformation” is performance. It’s why the pitbull will exhibit a wild variation in type and color. Conformation simply never mattered - only gameness. So we have a range of dogs, from very bully looking dogs, to very terrier looking dogs, with all colors and a big variation in size (but generally below 50 lbs). There is no true “conformation” per se, only “game” and “cur”. Don’t get me wrong; I’m not fan of razors edge and it’s like, but i’m not much more a fan of those pedigrees you so proudly linked :slight_smile: No offense sir.

167

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]jre67t wrote:
If it is just you and mom get an American Pitbull, real loyal and extremely territorial. They are aggressive though. Real smart dogs. Our dog catches rats and possums along with squirrels. There is stigma with pitbulls but if your trying to protect your house its a good stigma to have.[/quote]

If you get a well-bred pitbull, it will never show any aggression toward humans though, so it won’t be an effective guard dog. Dobermans and Rottweilers are bred to respond to a threat to their owners, whether from humans or another animal. A pitbull won’t respond the same way, unless it’s poorly bred and is therefore a bad dog to have around anyways. A well-bred pit will still exhibit aggression toward other animals without being overly aggressive toward other dogs, especially ones that are smaller than it.[/quote]

I’m sorry, but this is simply not true. How many of y’all that are commenting on pits have 'em or have spent significant time around the breed? I have 3 Razors Edge pits and they are all as loyal, loving and goofy as can be. They love people and other animals, but make no mistake if someone were to step to me or my family or try and get where they’re not wanted everyone of my dogs would [and have] take action. You do need to expose pits to other breeds early 'cause their heritage is as farm dogs. They’re critter getters at heart and if they’re not used to small dogs a rat terrier just looks like a rat. And for the record, I can take all of my dogs to the park and they’ll play with other dogs all day. The problem is that other dogs generally try to “test” them, especially my male. Because of this I no longer take him to the dog park. Oh, and even though BG and I have had our differences on this board the guy knows his dogs. People need to listen when he talks about dogs.[/quote]

You got some bullshit pits then. Pitbulls were bred starting in the 1880’s (in America) for fighting, plain and simple. They should have ZERO aggression toward humans because they were bred to be able to be pulled out of the ring in the middle of a fight by its owner or a referee without turning on the human. Any pitbull that does not meet this standard is an example of poor breeding. In the past, any pitbull that EVER showed aggression toward a human, especially unprovoked aggression, was shot on sight so that it would not contaminate the breed.

I’ve had three pitbulls, all of whom came from professional breeders who breed the dogs for temperament and conformation and looks, meaning that the dogs are bred to meet AKC and/or UKC standards. I’m very familiar with Razor’s Edge breeders and dogs. They’re bullshit dogs, period. They aren’t bred for anything other than the typical bully look and as a result factors like temperament, conformity and intelligence are cast aside. Their dogs don’t even approach the ideal look and temperament of a real pitbull. This is a link to a great breeder down in Florida that I got my current dog from. They breed for show, not rap videos like Razor’s Edge, and as a result their dogs are bred primarily for temperament and looks. My puppy is from the first pair of dogs shown (Steel and Blaze).

http://www.dogdayskennel.com/Available_Puppies_Page.htm[/quote]

I don’t give a fuck what you consider bullshit or not, 'cause you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. Pits were bred in ENGLAND, and were used for a variety of things. Yes, fighting was one of them. But, when they were shipped over they were used mostly as farm dogs, hence the “critter gitter” label. The apbt was actually Americas dog and was used as the face for patriotism during WW1. And, if you did a little more research instead of talking out of your fucking ass you’d realize that Razors Edge are actually bred for temperment and intelligence, as well as the traditional bully look. And, once again, if you’d read I mentioned more than once how awesome my dogs are around people and other animals. [/quote]

Well, this is not entirely true and it depends on whose stories you want to believe. The Irish likely combined the bull and terrier and the APBT we know today is most certainly a cross although some will argue the apbt is the original bulldog bred smaller. However, that does not explain the decidedly terrier traits you can plainly see in the modern day APBT. When they were first brought here, they were most certainly used mainly for fighting with Irish immigrants and others from the region doing with them what they did back home. The farm dogs you refer to were most certainly bulldog variations and the foundation for the american bulldog and its variants. Yes, the APBT was America’s dog (sadly, “WAS”) and Petey from the Little Rascals was actually the direct descendant from a fighting dog (won something like 15 matches).

168

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]jre67t wrote:
If it is just you and mom get an American Pitbull, real loyal and extremely territorial. They are aggressive though. Real smart dogs. Our dog catches rats and possums along with squirrels. There is stigma with pitbulls but if your trying to protect your house its a good stigma to have.[/quote]

If you get a well-bred pitbull, it will never show any aggression toward humans though, so it won’t be an effective guard dog. Dobermans and Rottweilers are bred to respond to a threat to their owners, whether from humans or another animal. A pitbull won’t respond the same way, unless it’s poorly bred and is therefore a bad dog to have around anyways. A well-bred pit will still exhibit aggression toward other animals without being overly aggressive toward other dogs, especially ones that are smaller than it.[/quote]

I’m sorry, but this is simply not true. How many of y’all that are commenting on pits have 'em or have spent significant time around the breed? I have 3 Razors Edge pits and they are all as loyal, loving and goofy as can be. They love people and other animals, but make no mistake if someone were to step to me or my family or try and get where they’re not wanted everyone of my dogs would [and have] take action. You do need to expose pits to other breeds early 'cause their heritage is as farm dogs. They’re critter getters at heart and if they’re not used to small dogs a rat terrier just looks like a rat. And for the record, I can take all of my dogs to the park and they’ll play with other dogs all day. The problem is that other dogs generally try to “test” them, especially my male. Because of this I no longer take him to the dog park. Oh, and even though BG and I have had our differences on this board the guy knows his dogs. People need to listen when he talks about dogs.[/quote]

You got some bullshit pits then. Pitbulls were bred starting in the 1880’s (in America) for fighting, plain and simple. They should have ZERO aggression toward humans because they were bred to be able to be pulled out of the ring in the middle of a fight by its owner or a referee without turning on the human. Any pitbull that does not meet this standard is an example of poor breeding. In the past, any pitbull that EVER showed aggression toward a human, especially unprovoked aggression, was shot on sight so that it would not contaminate the breed.

I’ve had three pitbulls, all of whom came from professional breeders who breed the dogs for temperament and conformation and looks, meaning that the dogs are bred to meet AKC and/or UKC standards. I’m very familiar with Razor’s Edge breeders and dogs. They’re bullshit dogs, period. They aren’t bred for anything other than the typical bully look and as a result factors like temperament, conformity and intelligence are cast aside. Their dogs don’t even approach the ideal look and temperament of a real pitbull. This is a link to a great breeder down in Florida that I got my current dog from. They breed for show, not rap videos like Razor’s Edge, and as a result their dogs are bred primarily for temperament and looks. My puppy is from the first pair of dogs shown (Steel and Blaze).

http://www.dogdayskennel.com/Available_Puppies_Page.htm[/quote]

I don’t give a fuck what you consider bullshit or not, 'cause you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. Pits were bred in ENGLAND, and were used for a variety of things. Yes, fighting was one of them. But, when they were shipped over they were used mostly as farm dogs, hence the “critter gitter” label. The apbt was actually Americas dog and was used as the face for patriotism during WW1. And, if you did a little more research instead of talking out of your fucking ass you’d realize that Razors Edge are actually bred for temperment and intelligence, as well as the traditional bully look. And, once again, if you’d read I mentioned more than once how awesome my dogs are around people and other animals. [/quote]

I agree with DB, and your dogs are bully’s not pit bulls, for a representation of an actual pit bull, check out lil bit down below.

I would never put a bully in a 30 with a APBT, they’ll end up chewed up and spit out. I’ve had the unfortunate experience of seeing two bully’s get in a fight. They lasted all of four minutes before they ran out of air. (FYI: Real dog fights last around :45 - 1:30hrs)

[photo]25216[/photo][/quote]

LOL. A real dog fight can be over quite quickly or it can drag on for more than 1:30. There is no rule. But yes, a bully pit, and any other breed for that matter, is done just as soon as it gets tired or, as soon as it gets back what it gives out.

169

[quote]DragnCarry wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]bond james bond wrote:
^BG,I was reading this thread and was hoping you would respond. You got your shit together when it comes to dogs man.

This is weird but I’ve heard a few times that geese(white ones) are the best at warning you when there is an intruder…after that they’re useless…like my contribution to this thread lol.

[/quote]

From time to time, I’ve actually had guinea hens on my property bc they are rumored to eat ticks and damn if they don’t raise a damn racket when someone comes around so who knows…maybe there is some truth to the geese thing lol.[/quote]

Guinea hens are nasty birds. I’ve seen one attack a grown man.[/quote]

My mom has over 20 on her property. They’re loud as fuck.[/quote]

They are great to keep around chickens though. Keep those damn foxes and coyotes out of my roosts. Although I’ll never keep a male guinea again. Killed my fucking rooster during a four day blizzard.[/quote]

Around here they are used to keep snakes away.
[/quote]

Yes, they simply will not tolerate snakes - to protect their eggs and offspring. I used to have quite a few black snakes around (harmless and quite beneficial since they eat rodents) but the guineas chase them off.

170

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
99% of you here will be fine with a dog that barks or a dog that looks like it will bite. [/quote]

That is what I’m talking about. Looks good on paper, no stress of the dog eating one of my kid’s friends.

I’m perfectly happy with “looks like a badass” but isn’t anything more than a overgrown dopey pup.

Dude, really. You could make a Dog’s 1.0 thread and I would imagine it would blow up.

171

My sister had a Fila and it only liked her. It would either ignore or nip at everyone else, so she ended up getting rid of it. I felt bad for the dog.

They knew that they aren’t “pets” but she had to have one.

172

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

MIt means you are very unlikely to ever own such a dog unless you’re a professional or a very serious hobbyist. So get it out of your mind. Choose the breed you like, based on solid research for compatibility with you and your family, and be happy with it. [/quote]

Otherwise you end up living with one of these:

173

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
So… A razor’s edge is a “show” dog then?

I mean, you get it to say you have a pit, but it isn’t ‘really’ a pit?

The insurance rates still high on it? ;)[/quote]

That’s exactly what it is. The line was started by a guy named Dave Wilson out in Virginia. It’s basically years and years of breeding to bring out certain genetic characteristics to get a desired look, like big head, short muzzles, low at the withers, super muscular, etc… And, it is pit but it’s mixed with cousin breeds as well.

Haha, yes it is. In the eyes of everyone not involved with the breed it’s a straight pit.[/quote]

yeah most of what I have breed or owned were out of STP kennels, out of lukane, gr ch buck, nigel. had a female out of bad rosemary, so mainly patrick boyle bloodlines.

They were great for the family and awesome at keeping vermin of the property.

174

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I’ve wild boar hunted for 20 years now and have never seen a Presa engage or catch a hog, and I’ve seen a few try. Same with Cane Corso. [/quote]

Yet both breeds are banned in Australia, where we have a strong population of more than capable pig dogs with drive.

175

Body Guard you really dislike presa’a don’t you. I haven’t seen one like the one I got from Dom’s. But I shit you not that dog was good. Not for family, but for my wife and I when we lived in a bad area in Jersey he served his purpose. He would listen was controlable, but he did bond closer with my wife then me. He was defintely a good counter for the pit at the time. He came from a kennel in Bama that also bred catch dogs, pretty sure that was his purpose. The person I got him from through Dom’ had a 100 acre farm with bulldogs and pits and couldn’t keep him any more.

But I like the donavan, he is my dog, trained him to not really interact with the kids or their pit. Got them at the same age at the same time to help avoid some conflict. have worked fila’s, dutch shepards and german shepards too.

But I feel more comfortable leaving my family with my dog watching as well as the shotgun.

176

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
So… A razor’s edge is a “show” dog then?

I mean, you get it to say you have a pit, but it isn’t ‘really’ a pit?

The insurance rates still high on it? ;)[/quote]

That’s exactly what it is. The line was started by a guy named Dave Wilson out in Virginia. It’s basically years and years of breeding to bring out certain genetic characteristics to get a desired look, like big head, short muzzles, low at the withers, super muscular, etc… And, it is pit but it’s mixed with cousin breeds as well.

Haha, yes it is. In the eyes of everyone not involved with the breed it’s a straight pit.[/quote]

yeah most of what I have breed or owned were out of STP kennels, out of lukane, gr ch buck, nigel. had a female out of bad rosemary, so mainly patrick boyle bloodlines.

They were great for the family and awesome at keeping vermin of the property. [/quote]

I know of the Lukane dog personally.

177

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Body Guard you really dislike presa’a don’t you. I haven’t seen one like the one I got from Dom’s. But I shit you not that dog was good. Not for family, but for my wife and I when we lived in a bad area in Jersey he served his purpose. He would listen was controlable, but he did bond closer with my wife then me. He was defintely a good counter for the pit at the time. He came from a kennel in Bama that also bred catch dogs, pretty sure that was his purpose. The person I got him from through Dom’ had a 100 acre farm with bulldogs and pits and couldn’t keep him any more.

But I like the donavan, he is my dog, trained him to not really interact with the kids or their pit. Got them at the same age at the same time to help avoid some conflict. have worked fila’s, dutch shepards and german shepards too.

But I feel more comfortable leaving my family with my dog watching as well as the shotgun. [/quote]

I don’t dislike them per se. They just aren’t the “presa canario” of old. They are a re-creation of what they think the breed was, and that to me just makes them a “bandog” - not that there is anything wrong with that, but I think we should call a spade a spade, and not a club :slight_smile: I’ve seen some with some severe temperaments and I’ve also heard of some that WILL hunt and catch. But sadly, like most “rare breeds”, your mileage will vary tremendously. I have heard many good things about the donovan pincher…I believe I may have contact information for the creator of the breed if I recall correctly. At the end of the day, I think the Presa is a bandog and generally will be hit or miss as far as a good dog. It will depend heavily on the breeder. Sadly, “rare breed” means dollar signs and attracts breeders that don’t know shit about dogs except collecting money for puppy sales. The only dog that I would part serious money for is a proven brood bitch. Anything else and I’m paying minimal money or it’s given to me. Thankfully, I don’t have to buy dogs much anymore as most are given to me. I turn down dogs every week :slight_smile:

178

I have had probably more than 25-35 dogs in my life and almost everybody I have ever known has had 1 or more dogs.

This shit ain’t rocket science.

After reading some of the posts on here it would seen like the OP should just give up. Getting a dog that will be useful to them is nearly impossible and if by chance one could be found the breeder wouldn’t sell it them. WTF

Just go to the pound and find a dog you like and give it a home. Use some common sense regarding the breed and size of the dog.

I have 3 dogs that work as a team guarding my property. I have a fenced in yard and 5 acres.

My red healer knows everything that goes on and is very alert. If she can’t handle the situation she gets the German Shepard involved. He is pretty alert as well. If those two need some help they wake up Monster. He is a 200+lb English mastiff. He is lazy and is only alert when he is on patrol which is infrequent and doesn’t last long. But nobody would challenge that big ass dog. He is very intimidating and can back it up. All my dogs are good with my 4 kids, and 2 horses. They know who to challenge and who to say hello too. And I have a shotgun etc for things that require that kind of attention.

This is they way me and many other red blooded Americans live and protect whats ours. It works and it is not a freaking fairy tale or a marketing scheme. If you are of reasonable intelligence and employ some common sense you can do it too.

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[quote]Its All U wrote:
I have had probably more than 25-35 dogs in my life and almost everybody I have ever known has had 1 or more dogs.

This shit ain’t rocket science.

After reading some of the posts on here it would seen like the OP should just give up. Getting a dog that will be useful to them is nearly impossible and if by chance one could be found the breeder wouldn’t sell it them. WTF

Just go to the pound and find a dog you like and give it a home. Use some common sense regarding the breed and size of the dog.

I have 3 dogs that work as a team guarding my property. I have a fenced in yard and 5 acres.

My red healer knows everything that goes on and is very alert. If she can’t handle the situation she gets the German Shepard involved. He is pretty alert as well. If those two need some help they wake up Monster. He is a 200+lb English mastiff. He is lazy and is only alert when he is on patrol which is infrequent and doesn’t last long. But nobody would challenge that big ass dog. He is very intimidating and can back it up. All my dogs are good with my 4 kids, and 2 horses. They know who to challenge and who to say hello too. And I have a shotgun etc for things that require that kind of attention.

This is they way me and many other red blooded Americans live and protect whats ours. It works and it is not a freaking fairy tale or a marketing scheme. If you are of reasonable intelligence and employ some common sense you can do it too.

[/quote]

Well, it aint rocket science if all you want is a deterrent and an alarm, which is exactly what I said. Your red healer sounds like an alarm dog. Perfect. You say she gets the GSD involved if there is a problem. That is remarkable. Do they speak? I think you might have a case for science that your red healer communicates intelligently to the GSD. So, let me get this right. If the healer AND the GSD can’t handle the situation, they run over to and “wake up” the monster, the mastiff. Exactly how does that occur? Do you have this on film? I’d love to see it. LOL. Anyway, sounds like you have a shitty GSD given that the GSD is far and above the choice of a professional over a mastiff. I don’t know of many mastiff breeds on any police force or military. If the GSD runs to your mastiff, you can just shoot that GSD now and save dog food :slight_smile: Sounds like the lazy mastiff needs all the food it can get. Nobody would challenge that big ass dog? Well, most wouldn’t. But others would just poison it. Or shoot it. About the most intelligent reference you made was to your shotgun. Now that’s protection. Which is exactly the general point I was making about dogs before your dismissive and disrespectful post. Reading comprehension fail sir. And yes, all these romantic breed descriptions you read are marketing pixie dust. Selling dogs is big business. And if you know what a truly good working dog is, you know it’s exceedingly hard to find one. I wasn’t referring to pets. I said working dogs. Yes, I agree, go adopt - it will serve the average family just fine. Sounds like you have some pretty average dogs. Which is exactly what I was recommending to the average pet owner. LMFAO at 200 lb mastiff. How did you determine the weight? By taking a pic of the dog next to a sneaker? Just wondering. I don’t know of any mastiff breed that should be tipping the scales that heavy. But maybe down there in Florida, where the dogs seem to talk to each other, you got something in the water to make em that big. Either that or they are overfed, grossly fat, and unhealthy. Or, maybe you were just telling a big fish story.

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Never met a Mastiff that I couldn’t outrun.

I work with aggressive dogs. People have problems with all sorts of breeds; Labs, Border Collies, Beagles, lots of pet or showline German Shepherds etc It’s easy enough for a dog to learn to be a liability and a royal pain in the ass.

People always think the dog is trying to protect THEM too. It’s rarely the case that the dog is trying to protect them, the dog is almost always trying to protect itself - big difference if someone is trying to hurt YOU.