I decided to go off TRT. I decided i should be wise and ask my questions here seeing as how doctors are morons when it comes to this stuff for the most part.
I am 24. 5 months ago i got a test that showed i had low testosterone. I believe 217 total. I was given 200 mg shots 2x a month for a month before i insisted on the gel. Well i felt better at first and now this last month not so good. The doctor tried to put me on 2.5g a day which would have been half the recommended starting dose. Even at 5g a day men get a 500 total testosterone.
I don’t want to spend 317$ a month for the gel when what i have read basically says i could raise my natural testosterone and free testosterone to higher levels for cheaper all while keeping estrogen in check.
I saw a study on Letro stating men with low test basically tripled there total t and free t. I keep reading Letros very powerful and shouldn’t be messed with…but this test showed great improvement and this is without natural test raising supplements.
To cut this short. If i wanted to go off trt what would i need to get my testes running and would following the letro study be wise?
I was thinking low dose letrozole (maybe 2.5 mg a week like the study) some trib and other natural test enhancers.
What are the best natural enhancers? Trib? I have done research but i know some people here can answer my question with ease and it would take me years of study to get at there level.
you have been on hrt for 5 months is that correct?
Can you be more specific about ‘not feeling too good’
Read the hrt thread in the over 35’s section, there is loads of good information there. Then do an article search on here and read the steroid manifesto parts one and two.
why did you insist on switching to gel?
I don’t know anything about test gel patches but I am curious about you feeling ‘not so good’ on test, I have never heard of anyone complaining about feeling worse on test.
good luck, once you’ve done a bit of homework and its reflected in your posts plenty of knowledgeable people will be ready to give you advice.
Welcome to the forum.
Why don’t you have a talk with your doctor and ask him if he can prescribe you the test and syringes (along with HCG, if you want kids and don’t want testicular atrophy) so you can inject twice per week instead of twice per month.
NOTE: explain to him that just because you’re injecting more frequently, that you’re not increasing the dose, just frequency of injections and thus creating more stable hormone levels.
Q: Why did you switch to the gel (which is hit and miss at best) from the injections?
I did some research and found out people frowned upon injections 2x a month compared to 2x a week or the Gel. I myself felt great(really great) when i first got the injections but i also had days where i felt like staying in my bed. I guess the typical roller coaster effect from 2 monthly injections.
----I don’t know anything about test gel patches but I am curious about you feeling ‘not so good’ on test, I have never heard of anyone complaining about feeling worse on test.
At first i felt a big difference…maybe its due to the extra test combined with my natural test was making me feel good compared to just the extra test…i figure my natural testosterone is shut down by now. I just feel worst…better than before but not like the first 2 months on trt.
----Why don’t you have a talk with your doctor and ask him if he can prescribe you the test and syringes (along with HCG, if you want kids and don’t want testicular atrophy) so you can inject twice per week instead of twice per month.
NOTE: explain to him that just because you’re injecting more frequently, that you’re not increasing the dose, just frequency of injections and thus creating more stable hormone levels.
Actually besides the outrageous cost of androgel this had been a major point of worry. I am 24 and have a kid but i don’t want to become unable to have any more if i choose.
I think i got all the help i wanted. Ask my doctor to give me my own testosterone i can inject 2x a week and get on HCG.
Should i get a weak AI or something to help with estrogen? I had pretty high estrogen before i started trt.
Thanks for the help. Hopefully my Doc will listen.
You had high estrogen before you even started and your doctor didn’t give you an AI along with your test injections? Seems strange to me, but I also know very little about TRT.
The best way to go about that would be to get regular blood work done (including estrogen levels) and adjust AI (arimidex, for example) from those readings.
You had high estrogen before you even started and your doctor didn’t give you an AI along with your test injections? Seems strange to me, but I also know very little about TRT
I don’t know. From everything i read most doctors basically prescribe the same thing for everybody. I could have swore when my doctor left the room she went to read a book. She has so many patients its ridiculous. 4-5 an hour.
Thanks so much. Maybe the lack of an AI has been my problem. Hopefully the doctor doesn’t try to be hardheaded and listens to me.
I was under the impression that most TRT doses remain your test reads in the normal range, and thus doesn’t need an AI. If you had high estrogen to begin with, though, I’d assume she’d at least consider an AI.
But, like I said, I know very little about TRT. Did you post this question in the over 35 lifter forum? They’ve got a bunch of guys on TRT over there who might be able to answer your question better.
Hi All. Before you do any hormone therapy you need a hormone profile with your free testosterone, total testosterone, estrogen and PSA. The most important parameter is to have your FREE testosterone in the upper 1/4 of the range. That is the ACTIVE or free testosterone.
If you are producing normal amounts of Total testosterone but have low free testosterone with high amounts of estrogen, you need and aromataze inhibitor like Arimidex.
If you have low total and free testosterone with low estrogen, you may need a extra testosterone. I would initially try natural ways to increase testosterone with things like tribulus or several others to see which works better for you.
Your LAST resource should be the injections or the cream since they affect your endocrine system. But you may need them.
I am planning to go on hrt. I will be using 100mg test eth every 3rd day and have been advised to use hcg at 250iu ed, there are multiple benefits to doing this I wasn’t aware of which I read about in the over 35’s forum. I will not be using arimidex when I am on hrt as I can use 200mg per week of test with no estrogen related problems (that I am aware of, although I must confess to never having had blood work done, I go by ‘feel’)
As far as I am aware perpetual use of AI is not ideal, though BBB will be able to advise you much better than me.
BBB, would you advise this use of arimidex to be continuos, with the HRT, or do you think 100-150mg test per week (according to the individual)
would be better (basically an amount that won’t warrant an AI)
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I would recommend that EVERYONE who is on TRT uses an AI, in conjunction with regular blood testing.
If you are on TRT (which is for life, effectively), then your E levels will rise over time, making you a candidate for BPH and probably heart disease, since E has a cardioprotective effect in females, but a cardiodestructive effect in males.
BBB, Hi, my works less busy at the moment so I’m trying to brush up my (limited) steroid knowledge knowledge.
My understanding was that 200mg test (the higher end of hrt) doesn’t warrant the use of AI, although I just re read the testosterone profile (newly revised) on Meso-Rx and Bill did say 200mg can aromatize. I always thought this was more down to the individual, I have heard of people using 1000mg per week and not having E related sides. I have also read that constant use of AI is not desirable, though I see now that if test use is continuous then AI use should be to, even on a lower dose, is that correct?
I have recently had Gyno surgery so I used to gauge my AI use with how my Gyno felt, and I stayed on for close to a year, 6 months or so was using 200mg per week with no AI, which didn’t aggravate my existing case of mild gyno, just so you know I was speaking from experience with regards to this, as I lived with gyno for 29 years, and i wouldn’t wish it on anyone…
How much Adex would you recommend using on 200mg test per week? (what i am on now) What are the dangers of prolonged AI use?
Thanks
To add, Is it correct that the regular use of an AI is to regulate E at a low level, whilst we inject more frequently to regulate test levels? That makes sense to me now.
As far as I know the dangers of prolonged AI usage were an estrogen rebound on discontinuation of use and dependance on their use, in prisoners test taper thread he recommends tapering of them as with the test.
BBB, will/can E levels fluctuate to problematic levels even on 100mg per week? I don’t remember reading about anyone using AI on hrt with 100mg a week. I am off to the over 35’s forum to do some homework
At first i felt a big difference…maybe its due to the extra test combined with my natural test was making me feel good compared to just the extra test…i figure my natural testosterone is shut down by now. I just feel worst…better than before but not like the first 2 months on trt.
…
I think i got all the help i wanted. Ask my doctor to give me my own testosterone i can inject 2x a week and get on HCG.
Should i get a weak AI or something to help with estrogen? I had pretty high estrogen before i started trt.
Thanks for the help. Hopefully my Doc will listen.[/quote]
Feeling awesome at the start of TRT then drifting back to only feeling good is pretty typical for new patients. Forget those first two months ever happened and keep the comparisons between your current state and where you were before TRT. If you want to feel awesome all the time your probably going to need more than a replacement dose.
Considering your age did your doctor try to repair your natural test production before starting androgen therapy? The high estrogen should have been brought under control before dumping more test into the mix. Get some blood work then get an AI. Also, you might want to look into getting a doctor that has a clue.
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
To add, Is it correct that the regular use of an AI is to regulate E at a low level, whilst we inject more frequently to regulate test levels? That makes sense to me now.
As far as I know the dangers of prolonged AI usage were an estrogen rebound on discontinuation of use and dependance on their use, in prisoners test taper thread he recommends tapering of them as with the test.
BBB, will/can E levels fluctuate to problematic levels even on 100mg per week? I don’t remember reading about anyone using AI on hrt with 100mg a week. I am off to the over 35’s forum to do some homework ;-)[/quote]
You go on TRT because your natural systems are fucked. If you never come off then then you can’t have problems upon discontinuation can you ;).
I’m not BBB, but I am running 100mg Test Cyp per week. I need .5 mg Anastrozole EOD to keep my estrogen under control. Not everyone needs an AI but is pretty common.
