God and Hell

dmaddox · March 26, 2010, 5:58pm

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
Tithing

It is interesting to note that no where in the Greek Scriptures is it every brought up that we should tithe. Instead, it gives us principles to follow:

2 Cor 8:12

For if the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have.

2 Cor 9:7

Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

To be forced to give, or, to give under “compulsion” goes against what the Bible teaches. We are encouraged to give what we want, from our heart, cheerfully.[/quote]

Honest, dont mean to be an ass, but I find it amazing how you use the scripture to fit your needs. You will use the Hebrew Scripture sometimes and then the Greek other times to get your point across. You have to use the entire scripture to interpret what is being said. Jesus even said, “he did not come to abolish the law.” The Hebrew Scriptures are very adimate about tithing.[/quote]

The Hebrew Scriptures were also very strict on the Sabbath keeping. What does that mean?[/quote]

It says to rest and keep the Sabbath Holy. What does that mean?[/quote]

No work to be done on sabbath. Is that still kept today?[/quote]

Do you go to church and not work on the same day? Whether the Sabbath is on Saturday or Sunday I think is splitting hairs. The point was to take a day of rest once a week, and to remember the Lord. I would say the same number of people who tithe, rest and keep the Sabbath holy.

ZEB · March 26, 2010, 6:05pm

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
If there is a Heaven, I just hope it’s on the Grassy Knoll on November 22nd 1963. If I went to Heaven and found out once and for all where the pyramids came from, who shot JFK and RFK and so on, and then I was cast into Hell, I’d be cool with that.[/quote]

Just wondering are you 12 years old?[/quote]

Just wondering, are you incapable of humor?[/quote]

No not at all and as soon as you say something funny I’ll be the first to give you kudo’s until then, well…

honest_lifter · March 26, 2010, 6:15pm

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
Tithing

It is interesting to note that no where in the Greek Scriptures is it every brought up that we should tithe. Instead, it gives us principles to follow:

2 Cor 8:12

For if the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have.

2 Cor 9:7

Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

To be forced to give, or, to give under “compulsion” goes against what the Bible teaches. We are encouraged to give what we want, from our heart, cheerfully.[/quote]

Honest, dont mean to be an ass, but I find it amazing how you use the scripture to fit your needs. You will use the Hebrew Scripture sometimes and then the Greek other times to get your point across. You have to use the entire scripture to interpret what is being said. Jesus even said, “he did not come to abolish the law.” The Hebrew Scriptures are very adimate about tithing.[/quote]

The Hebrew Scriptures were also very strict on the Sabbath keeping. What does that mean?[/quote]

It says to rest and keep the Sabbath Holy. What does that mean?[/quote]

No work to be done on sabbath. Is that still kept today?[/quote]

Do you go to church and not work on the same day? Whether the Sabbath is on Saturday or Sunday I think is splitting hairs. The point was to take a day of rest once a week, and to remember the Lord. I would say the same number of people who tithe, rest and keep the Sabbath holy.[/quote]

I don’t follow the sabbath, so if I have to work on the sabbath I will. It was very strict what day was suppose to be the sabbath. To say that is splitting hairs with the day would be inappropriate. For tithing, you are saying that the Hebrew Scriptures were very adamant, and you take it to the letter; but for the Sabbath, you are taking the “point of it”, or the principle. Kind of inconsistent don’t you think?

MBH · March 26, 2010, 6:24pm

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
Tithing

It is interesting to note that no where in the Greek Scriptures is it every brought up that we should tithe. Instead, it gives us principles to follow:

2 Cor 8:12

For if the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have.

2 Cor 9:7

Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

To be forced to give, or, to give under “compulsion” goes against what the Bible teaches. We are encouraged to give what we want, from our heart, cheerfully.[/quote]

Honest_Lifter,
There is a lot we disagree on. But it appears we may agree about tithing.

Tithing was an Old Testament law, mandated by God to the nation of Israel. It was a requirement of every Israelite family to give a tenth of their produce and livestock for the support of the Levitical priesthood.

The work of the Levites merely foreshadowed the person and work of Jesus Christ. The writer of Hebrews describes that old system in this way: “The law is only a shadow of the good things that were coming - not the realities themselves” (Hebrews 10:1). The realities are found in Christ Jesus.

Through His death and resurrection, Jesus fulfilled all that the Law of Moses required, and in so doing, ended the Levitical priesthood. Christ finished their work forever. Jesus now stands as our high priest, and the only high priest.

When Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant, He ushered in the promised New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31). Therefore, the old priesthood has been replaced by the new one - Jesus. Under this new covenant with its new priesthood in place, the old system of tithing no longer remains in effect. Under the New Covenant, we have a new way to share financially in His work here on earth - the grace of giving ( 2 Corinthians 8:7).

Under grace, giving is not a required activity as the law of tithing was. New Covenant giving is a natural overflow of God’s love in service to others as His Spirit leads us. That could be ten percent, and perhaps more or less as God works in our hearts individually.

As you noted, 2 Corinthians 9:7 summarizes the type of giving God desires for every believer. “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”

dmaddox · March 26, 2010, 6:35pm

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
Tithing

It is interesting to note that no where in the Greek Scriptures is it every brought up that we should tithe. Instead, it gives us principles to follow:

2 Cor 8:12

For if the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have.

2 Cor 9:7

Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

To be forced to give, or, to give under “compulsion” goes against what the Bible teaches. We are encouraged to give what we want, from our heart, cheerfully.[/quote]

Honest, dont mean to be an ass, but I find it amazing how you use the scripture to fit your needs. You will use the Hebrew Scripture sometimes and then the Greek other times to get your point across. You have to use the entire scripture to interpret what is being said. Jesus even said, “he did not come to abolish the law.” The Hebrew Scriptures are very adimate about tithing.[/quote]

The Hebrew Scriptures were also very strict on the Sabbath keeping. What does that mean?[/quote]

It says to rest and keep the Sabbath Holy. What does that mean?[/quote]

No work to be done on sabbath. Is that still kept today?[/quote]

Do you go to church and not work on the same day? Whether the Sabbath is on Saturday or Sunday I think is splitting hairs. The point was to take a day of rest once a week, and to remember the Lord. I would say the same number of people who tithe, rest and keep the Sabbath holy.[/quote]

I don’t follow the sabbath, so if I have to work on the sabbath I will. It was very strict what day was suppose to be the sabbath. To say that is splitting hairs with the day would be inappropriate. For tithing, you are saying that the Hebrew Scriptures were very adamant, and you take it to the letter; but for the Sabbath, you are taking the “point of it”, or the principle. Kind of inconsistent don’t you think?[/quote]

You are mis interpreting my words as you do the scripture big guy. When was the Sabbath inacted? Oh yeah in Genesis when God rested on the Seventh Day of creation. Hum which day was the seventh day? Who knows, so maybe it is Sunday or Saturday pick a day. God wanted us to have one day of rest out of seven, and to remember him. That is it. The pharasies took it too far buddy.

Second, on the tithing it states to give a tithe which means tenth. Give a tenth of what? Who knows, could be time, could be money, but to Americans money has become our god so I am going to side with giving a tithe of my money. If you don’t have money then give your time, give your talent it is the principle of giving something of value from yourself. You can not serve 2 god’s, hey Jesus said that. I believe that all that I have is God’s, and he says have fun with 90% and give me 10%. I think that is a good trade off. Don’t you?

THE_CLAMP_DOWN · March 26, 2010, 6:40pm

Why?

Does your God have low self esteem? Is he looking for qualification and acceptance?

And if I worship another God besides him. Does he get envious?

And when I get sent to hell. Is it because he is mad? Or he is really sad??.. but knows rules are rules and that I must suffer?

dmaddox · March 26, 2010, 7:01pm

[quote]THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:

Why?

Does your God have low self esteem? Is he looking for qualification and acceptance?

And if I worship another God besides him. Does he get envious?

And when I get sent to hell. Is it because he is mad? Or he is really sad??.. but knows rules are rules and that I must suffer?

[/quote]

The conversation you quoted is between people who have a stake in the Bible and we are disscussing this. If you want to know the Bible answers to your questions then I am alright with answering, but if you are just trying to bust my chops man you really have some issues.

honest_lifter · March 26, 2010, 7:26pm

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

You are mis interpreting my words as you do the scripture big guy. When was the Sabbath inacted? Oh yeah in Genesis when God rested on the Seventh Day of creation. Hum which day was the seventh day? Who knows, so maybe it is Sunday or Saturday pick a day. God wanted us to have one day of rest out of seven, and to remember him. That is it. The pharasies took it too far buddy.

Second, on the tithing it states to give a tithe which means tenth. Give a tenth of what? Who knows, could be time, could be money, but to Americans money has become our god so I am going to side with giving a tithe of my money. If you don’t have money then give your time, give your talent it is the principle of giving something of value from yourself. You can not serve 2 god’s, hey Jesus said that. I believe that all that I have is God’s, and he says have fun with 90% and give me 10%. I think that is a good trade off. Don’t you?[/quote]

The sabbath didn’t get started until the Israelites were in the wilderness, not Genesis. Sabbath was also Saturday.

Ex 31:16,17

And the sons of Israel must keep the sabbath, so as to carry out the sabbath during their generations. It is a covenant to time indefinite. Between me and the sons of Israel it is a sign to time indefinite, because in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and proceeded to refresh himself.

Your second paragraph seems like just your personal opinion, so if you would like to keep to that you can, there is no reason to correct anything.

THE_CLAMP_DOWN · March 26, 2010, 7:28pm

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

If you want to know the Bible answers to your questions then I am alright with answering, but if you are just trying to bust my chops man you really have some issues.[/quote]

Why would you assume I am trying to bust your chops? Can you not answer them?

dmaddox · March 26, 2010, 8:02pm

[quote]THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:

Why?

Does your God have low self esteem? Is he looking for qualification and acceptance?

And if I worship another God besides him. Does he get envious?

And when I get sent to hell. Is it because he is mad? Or he is really sad??.. but knows rules are rules and that I must suffer?

[/quote]

Let me ask you a question before I answer this. Do you celebrate birthdays? Do you honor people that have done things in your life to help you out. Mothers, Fathers, a person that helped you in time of need. This is what the Sabbath is used for. God rested on the seventh day which by Jewish customs was starting Friday at sun down and ending Saturday at Sun down. God also delivered the Israelites out of captivity in Egypt. The Sabbath is to Honor God for all that he has done for us. He rested one day out of seven so why not us. Our God is a Jealous God, and he hates sin, but not the sinner. He wants all of us to go to heaven and be with him. That is why he made us in the first place. He walked daily with Adam in the Garden. He wanted to be with us. Why do people have children? I at first thought it was what married people do, and when my daughter smiled at me at 6 weeks I wanted to be with her forever. Does she mess up now that she is older. Yes she does, but does that make we want to be with her any less. No. She will always be my daughter and I want what is best for her. This is how God looks at us.

Do you see where I am going with this?

THE_CLAMP_DOWN · March 26, 2010, 11:10pm

Sometimes.
But this is not quite the same thing. You honor them because YOU want to honor them, no? You dont honor them because THEY want you to honor them. Mothers did not create Mothers day. No, people created that day for Mothers because they were grateful.

But God created a day for us to honor him. This is what I was questioning. Why? Why does he need us to honor him? To praise him? To obey him?

Is this not the same as Stalin and Hitler creating statues of themselves. Asking to be praised and what not? To build their confidence… to make them feel powerful. Basically, conditions to make them happy.

And your God, being all too human, becomes happy when we praise him? It makes him feel good? But when we dont… when we praise other gods. He gets jealous? He gets angry? Sad? … all this time he has this Fear that he could lose his followers.

This raises more issues. 1) Isnt God’s love unconditional? 2) How can God love and be jealous, angry, fearful at the same time?

More issues: Anxiety, depression, fear, jealousy ( PAIN ) are emotions necessary for human survival. Pleasure as well. But why does a God, outside of time and space, outside of death, why does a God need these survival emotions? They have no function.

All that should exist is LOVE. ECSTASY. BLISS. JOY. PEACE. All of which are without conditions… without a reason.

And I am against the war but I support the troops. What?!

Does he? Or does he (supposedly) want you to have the freedom to choose heaven or hell? If he truly wanted us in Heaven we would all be going there. He’s all powerful isnt he?

So if , to my estimates, at least 4 billion members of this current world go to Hell. Its the best for us? Some don’t believe in Hell, though. So lets change that question to simply “Why are 4 billion humans not getting into Heaven?”

We are his kids.
He loves us unconditionally.

[quote]
Do you see where I am going with this?[/quote]
where?

honest_lifter · March 26, 2010, 11:39pm

The_Clamp_Down,

Very well said. I like your questions and lines of reasoning.

wigsa · March 27, 2010, 12:00am

Haven’t you seen the South Park episode??The Mormons were right.Sucks I know.

On a serious note,I’m openly Agnostic.I really don’t think there’s any way of ever knowing who’s right and who’s wrong.It’s impossible.People need to realise that they only believe their line of belief is right because they were born in a certain part of the world.If they were born in another country,they could believe something totally different,and what would make them less correct??They would be equally as convinced and passionate about what they believe as members of every other religion around the world.

There are still undiscovered tribes in the world who probably still worship the sun and the hawk.

If anyone else has this opinion,I’d recommend they read A Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris.It has more of an Atheist’s viewpoint on the whole debate but it’s a great read nonetheless and makes quite a good case,whether intentional or not,for Agnosticism.

MBH · March 27, 2010, 12:44am

The law of the Sabbath in the Old Testament was a foreshadowing of the reality we now have in Christ. “The law is only a shadow of the good things that were coming - not the realities themselves” (Hebrews 10:1).

Entering God’s rest - “There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His.” (Hebrews 4:9,10)

Every day day is the Sabbath in the New Covenant for those who have entered God’s rest.

In order to rest, we must stop working and trying to make ourselves acceptable before God by our own works. We must believe and trust in what Christ has done for us at the cross. God has made us holy and acceptable in His sight through the New Covenant.

“Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the Blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his Body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.” (Hebrews 10:19-23)

If you are still trying to live the Christian life in your own strength under the law, God has provided a new way whereby we can enter into a permanent Sabbath Rest by faith.

Brother_Chris · March 27, 2010, 4:45pm

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
If you behave well or do whatever the hell it is you’re supposed to do to earn a spot in Heaven simply to be in Heaven, is that virtuous? If fear of Hell is the motivating factor, not genuine concern for your fellow man, is that pious? I’d like to see some priests and whatnot start telling people that they might end up in hell no matter what, or that there may be no Heaven/Hell and that they may just die and that’s it. Then we’ll see how many act kindly toward others out of genuine kindness and how many are motivated by fear or some sort of reward. When we were kids, did we behave well around Christmas time so we could get presents, or did we do so simply because it was right?[/quote]

To answer your last question, I behaved all year round.

First, you do not earn a spot in Heaven, man cannot get himself into Heaven. But, there are works you can do to show your heart to G-d. There is a progression in behavior as we grow up, the catholic Church sees virtue in the same manner. When we are children we do things because we will get a reward out of it, when we are adolescents we do things because we do not want something taken away, and when we are adults we do things because that is what is supposed to be done.

Taking it from the Catholic point of view, it is the same thing with works. When we first start out we may do it because we will get something out of it, yeah that’s great when your feeling good, what happens when you are feeling down. You could start to do it so you won’t have something taken away, but what about the good times now, you are not scared of anything being taken away or getting in trouble. Then the final stage of maturity, doing things on our own free will because we know they are supposed to be done, there is nothing to stop you because you know that it just needs to be done.

Priests cannot just going around saying people are going to Hell, goes with the whole ‘judge and you shall be judged.’ However, that does not mean this other theology is not explained. Why would a priest tell someone that there is not Heaven/Hell, that would usually go against their religion, just saying.

Your view is narrow and you need to back up and get the bigger picture, priest know the developments of works and spirituality within their people. Preaching heretics makes no sense, and a priest is not going to ‘scare people’ because that is not going to make them virtuous people. Remember, the Catholic Church does not believe the ends justify the means, and false preaching is not justified by social justice. So, people have to choose freely to do things, just because that’s what has to happen.

Brother_Chris · March 27, 2010, 4:48pm

[quote]Tyler23 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
If you behave well or do whatever the hell it is you’re supposed to do to earn a spot in Heaven simply to be in Heaven, is that virtuous? If fear of Hell is the motivating factor, not genuine concern for your fellow man, is that pious? I’d like to see some priests and whatnot start telling people that they might end up in hell no matter what, or that there may be no Heaven/Hell and that they may just die and that’s it. Then we’ll see how many act kindly toward others out of genuine kindness and how many are motivated by fear or some sort of reward. When we were kids, did we behave well around Christmas time so we could get presents, or did we do so simply because it was right?[/quote]

To that end, the argument could easily be made that altruism doesn’t exist. I am not sure it does. Who’s to say that I help others simply so I can feel better about myself and avoid hell?[/quote]

No person except you? I’m not seeing how this question is relevant that is equivalent of asking Who’s to say that I am thinking of the color blue instead of red. Does not matter to the rest of the world, that’s just between you and God.

Brother_Chris · March 27, 2010, 6:46pm

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Okay Petermus. But what about people who have absolutely no knowledge of Christ? For instance, what if someone living in some far-off land who believes in the same religion as all of his ancestors dies. Does he get into Heaven? What if his concept of good, the only one he has ever known or had the ability to know, is completely at odds with what God requires of us to get into Heaven? Is this guy an extenuating circumstance tha gets in, or does God reject him?[/quote]

The Catholic Church recognizes the Holy Ghost working in other churches as well as people outside the faith. If, of no fault of his own, a man does not know the Word of God, yet he desires to be with God, he is considered baptised by desire and has invincible ignorance and has (perfect) love (or agape) for God, then he will likely go to Heaven. He also has to listen to the direction of his conscience.

Brother_Chris · March 27, 2010, 6:48pm

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Okay Petermus. But what about people who have absolutely no knowledge of Christ? For instance, what if someone living in some far-off land who believes in the same religion as all of his ancestors dies. Does he get into Heaven? What if his concept of good, the only one he has ever known or had the ability to know, is completely at odds with what God requires of us to get into Heaven? Is this guy an extenuating circumstance tha gets in, or does God reject him?[/quote]

I think that is an appropriate question, and one we may never be able to answer since we are not God, but I would like to hear others thoughts on this as well.

Romans 1:20 pretty much states that Creation speaks to who God is, and leaves all man without excuse. Christians send Missionaries all over the world to try and spread the Gospel to all people. You would think we would be getting close to reaching all, but there are statistics showing several thousand people groups have not been reached.

On another point we Christians beleive there is only one unpardonable sin and that is the denial of Christ. It is one thing to have never heard, but it is entirely different if you have heard and refuse to beleive.[/quote]

It is not the denial of Christ, it is blaspheme of the Holy Ghost. Which deals with not asking/believing the Holy Ghost can forgive you of your sins. Christ says men will talk bad about Jesus, and they are fine, but those that blaspheme against the Holy Ghost will not make it.

Brother_Chris · March 27, 2010, 6:52pm

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Okay Petermus. But what about people who have absolutely no knowledge of Christ? For instance, what if someone living in some far-off land who believes in the same religion as all of his ancestors dies. Does he get into Heaven? What if his concept of good, the only one he has ever known or had the ability to know, is completely at odds with what God requires of us to get into Heaven? Is this guy an extenuating circumstance tha gets in, or does God reject him?[/quote]

I think that is an appropriate question, and one we may never be able to answer since we are not God, but I would like to hear others thoughts on this as well.

Romans 1:20 pretty much states that Creation speaks to who God is, and leaves all man without excuse. Christians send Missionaries all over the world to try and spread the Gospel to all people. You would think we would be getting close to reaching all, but there are statistics showing several thousand people groups have not been reached.

On another point we Christians beleive there is only one unpardonable sin and that is the denial of Christ. It is one thing to have never heard, but it is entirely different if you have heard and refuse to beleive.[/quote]

But look at the way some of these missionaries have spread the word of God in the past. Many missionaries have ended up subjugating and/or killing those who they spread the word to. The West Indies and South America come to mind. If I were an ancient Aztec, and I have been taught about God by the Spanish, and I reject God rather than reject centuries and centuries of ancestral beliefs and traditions, is this bad? What about today? With things like sex scandals constantly being exposed within the Catholic Church, is it bad if I reject the existence of Christ from someone or some group whose leaders, on the surface, appear to be living a lifestyle completely at odds with what they are teaching?

There is no way for the missionaries to have proven the existence of God. That, to me, is the essence of faith; believing in something despite not knowing if it’s all for naught. Believing that what you are doing is good and then doing it without concrete proof that you will be rewarded for it. In a way, to have true faith and to act good in a manner that supercedes motivation of reward is to acknowledge that there is a possibility that God does not exist, but that you will follow the teachings of the Bible anyways because you believe in your heart that those teachings are the correct way to live.

I’ve heard people, when presented with this theory of mine, say that they KNOW God exists because they’ve talked with him. So who are those who have talked to Allah or Buddha or Confucius really talking to? How do we know who is right and who is wrong? Isn’t it possible that our “talks” with God are simply experiences that we don’t understand at all and so we refer to these experiences as proof of God’s existence in order to confirm within ourselves that we are doing good and that we WILL be rewarded for it?

If the Wizard of Oz were to tell me to not kill thy neighbor, I can understand why that is right. If I pull the curtain back and realize that the Wizard is just some old man with a bunch of buttons and levers, that doesn’t detract from my belief that thou shalt not kill. If it does, I’m judging what good behavior is based on who says it’s good, not whether or not it actually is good or not. What is right is eternal, it isn’t just created out of thin air. If some three year old girl tells me that E=MC squared, it carries the same validity as if Einstein were to tell me, because no matter who it comes from, it’s true.

As I’ve stated in various threads here before, I belong to a 12-step program. When I first entered the program, I struggled with the spirituality aspect of it (belief in a Higher Power is necessary in AA) because I did not believe in “God” as Christians did. I went to a Catholic school from k-8grade, so it wasn’t from a lack of familiarity of God. But when I began to accept that I can fully believe in and follow the teachings of Jesus without having to believe in his divinity, my spirituality grew immensely. I accept that I may be wrong about God, but this does not detract from my beliefs in the teachings of Jesus. I don’t need to know whether or not God exists to understand why treating others as I would have them treat me is a good way to live. That’s my faith: I accept that I may be wrong about Jesus, but I have FAITH that despite my unwillingness to believe in His divinity, if I follow his teachings I will be rewarded when I die and throughout my life.[/quote]

I wish I could read your whole message at the moment, but I am off to do some work. However, I can say about rejecting the message from Catholics. The faults of members of the Catholic Church will be dealt with, that is certain. However, if YOU do not accept the message, that is not on the Catholic Church, that is on you. If you are punished or not I cannot say, however it is of no fault of the Church’s.

God loves you.
BC

Brother_Chris · March 27, 2010, 6:59pm