Global Warming Reaching Critical Point

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/./1/.1107521268811.Global_Warming..gif

If nothing else, this should put everything into perspective. It examines marine life bones which estimate the global temperature going back 3000 years.

If we are still below average, and the earth has heated up since the end of the last Ice Age (the little ice age,) and we are not even as warm as when that ice age began, then I don?t think we should be blaming humans. We need to get the temperature just to get to the average of the last 3000 years.

Wall Street Journal Editorial
Hockey Stick on Ice
February 18, 2005; Page A10

On Wednesday National Hockey League Commissioner Gary Bettman canceled the season, and we guess that’s a loss. But this week also brought news of something else that’s been put on ice. We’re talking about the “hockey stick.”

Just so we’re clear, this hockey stick isn’t a sports implement; it’s a scientific graph. Back in the late 1990s, American geoscientist Michael Mann published a chart that purported to show average surface temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere over the past 1,000 years. The chart showed relatively minor fluctuations in temperature over the first 900 years, then a sharp and continuous rise over the past century, giving it a hockey-stick shape.

Mr. Mann’s chart was both a scientific and political sensation. It contradicted a body of scientific work suggesting a warm period early in the second millennium, followed by a “Little Ice Age” starting in the 14th century. It also provided some visually arresting scientific support for the contention that fossil-fuel emissions were the cause of higher temperatures. Little wonder, then, that Mr. Mann’s hockey stick appears five times in the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s landmark 2001 report on global warming, which paved the way to this week’s global ratification – sans the U.S., Australia and China – of the Kyoto Protocol.

Yet there were doubts about Mr. Mann’s methods and analysis from the start. In 1998, Willie Soon and Sallie Baliunas of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics published a paper in the journal Climate Research, arguing that there really had been a Medieval warm period. The result: Messrs. Soon and Baliunas were treated as heretics and six editors at Climate Research were made to resign.

Still, questions persisted. In 2003, Stephen McIntyre, a Toronto minerals consultant and amateur mathematician, and Ross McKitrick, an economist at Canada’s University of Guelph, jointly published a critique of the hockey stick analysis. Their conclusion: Mr. Mann’s work was riddled with “collation errors, unjustifiable truncations of extrapolation of source data, obsolete data, geographical location errors, incorrect calculations of principal components, and other quality control defects.” Once these were corrected, the Medieval warm period showed up again in the data.

This should have produced a healthy scientific debate. Instead, as the Journal’s Antonio Regalado reported Monday, Mr. Mann tried to shut down debate by refusing to disclose the mathematical algorithm by which he arrived at his conclusions. All the same, Mr. Mann was forced to publish a retraction of some of his initial data, and doubts about his statistical methods have since grown. Statistician Francis Zwiers of Environment Canada (a government agency) notes that Mr. Mann’s method “preferentially produces hockey sticks when there are none in the data.” Other reputable scientists such as Berkeley’s Richard Muller and Hans von Storch of Germany’s GKSS Center essentially agree.

We realize this may all seem like so much academic nonsense. Yet if there really was a Medieval warm period (we draw no conclusions), it would cast some doubt on the contention that our SUVs and air conditioners, rather than natural causes, are to blame for apparent global warming.

There is also the not-so-small matter of the politicization of science: If climate scientists feel their careers might be put at risk by questioning some orthodoxy, the inevitable result will be bad science. It says something that it took two non-climate scientists to bring Mr. Mann’s errors to light.

But the important point is this: The world is being lobbied to place a huge economic bet – as much as $150 billion a year – on the notion that man-made global warming is real. Businesses are gearing up, at considerable cost, to deal with a new regulatory environment; complex carbon-trading schemes are in the making. Shouldn’t everyone look very carefully, and honestly, at the science before we jump off this particular cliff?

Those of you that can read might find this to be interesting…

New proof that man has caused global warming

Basically, they took the warming that is actually taking place, the way in which the warming is taking place, and compared it to models of warming being proposed by those thinking it is human caused and by those thinking it is not human caused.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Those of you that can read might find this to be interesting…

New proof that man has caused global warming

Basically, they took the warming that is actually taking place, the way in which the warming is taking place, and compared it to models of warming being proposed by those thinking it is human caused and by those thinking it is not human caused.[/quote]

Vroom, did you read the article yourself? We are talking about a less than one degree rise in average ocean temperatures over forty years. Pardon me while I yawn.

The whole point of Global Warming politics and science and money is based on the attempt to generate a panic. So the guys who modeled the greenhouse gases effect got some numbers closer… so what? There’s still no panic here. This new data analysis will do more to dissuade the US from signing the Kyoto Accord than anything. A less than one degree rise over forty years is not a reason to do anything at all. This just cements the whole “Global Warming is not a crisis” idea in my mind.

How people can take something like this and extrapolate it into “we’re all gonna die!!!” is just hilarious to me.

Where in the heck have you been Lothario? Was there a big smart-ass/athiest/baby-killer/conservative convention somewhere?

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Where in the heck have you been Lothario? Was there a big smart-ass/athiest/baby-killer/conservative convention somewhere? [/quote]

Yeah. I was a keynote speaker. I think you would have loved my presentation:

“Peeing on churches after the bars close at 2AM, and the effect on the unborn human fetus.”

Nah. Just kidding, RJ. I’ve been in jail.

[quote]schrauper wrote:
Complete, total, and utter bullshit. They have no idea what they are talking about, and can’t. To call what they do science is fraud to the utmost.

To get money and attention, the climate change whores need to play chicken little often enough.

The problem for them is that their models still don’t work for shit, and that all climate changes that we have observed as humans in our flash in the pan time frame here on Earth are well within norms. In fact a mathematician recently debunked their graph showing a steady state temperature until recently.

They are the Swaggarts and Tammy Faes of their field- whoring for cash on the premise of intimate knowledge demonstrated by credentials which they can’t live up to.[/quote]

just got onto this thread, and found this pile of crock.

I am not au fait wth the data, mand i am damn well sure you guys aren’t also. however, i believe that there are some people who sleep very badly at night wih the knowledge they have. these, may i add are not CEO’s of exxon.

Do you have kids? is this a risk worth taking? what will happen is that billions (no bad thing) of people will die, the human race will continue and we will survive.

on a previous thread it was mentioned re attacking iraq that this was what had to be done to preserve and safegaurd the way of life that americans have.

this is a bigger security risk that al bloody queida and if that was not a risk to any way of life, nay, survival, then what is.

Protect your own way of life cause i can assure you it will bite you in the ass

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Yeah. I was a keynote speaker. I think you would have loved my presentation:

“Peeing on churches after the bars close at 2AM, and the effect on the unborn human fetus.”

Nah. Just kidding, RJ. I’ve been in jail.
[/quote]

Get outta here! I know I’ll regret this - but really?

[quote]miniross wrote:
just got onto this thread, and found this pile of crock.

I am not au fait wth the data, mand i am damn well sure you guys aren’t also. however, i believe that there are some people who sleep very badly at night wih the knowledge they have. these, may i add are not CEO’s of exxon.

Do you have kids? is this a risk worth taking? what will happen is that billions (no bad thing) of people will die, the human race will continue and we will survive.

on a previous thread it was mentioned re attacking iraq that this was what had to be done to preserve and safegaurd the way of life that americans have.

this is a bigger security risk that al bloody queida and if that was not a risk to any way of life, nay, survival, then what is.

Protect your own way of life cause i can assure you it will bite you in the ass
[/quote]

Dude - you really shouldn’t try to type when you’re shit-faced. Read your post in the morning after you sober up and see if it sounds as good as you thought it did when you wrote it.

[quote]miniross wrote:
just got onto this thread, and found this pile of crock.

I am not au fait wth the data, mand i am damn well sure you guys aren’t also. however, i believe that there are some people who sleep very badly at night wih the knowledge they have. these, may i add are not CEO’s of exxon.

Do you have kids? is this a risk worth taking? what will happen is that billions (no bad thing) of people will die, the human race will continue and we will survive.[/quote]

People die all the time mini, and it has nothing to do with an imaginary catastrophic climate shift.

[quote]on a previous thread it was mentioned re attacking iraq that this was what had to be done to preserve and safegaurd the way of life that americans have.

this is a bigger security risk that al bloody queida and if that was not a risk to any way of life, nay, survival, then what is.

Protect your own way of life cause i can assure you it will bite you in the ass[/quote]

I think maybe you have sucked down just a little too much Kool-Aid. There is no catastrophe waiting to pounce on us and destroy billions of people. Why would you think something like that? Are you one of THEM?

RJ: I haven’t really been in jail. I’ve been busy staring at the Yo Vegita thread in the Sex Forum. :slight_smile:

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
miniross wrote:
just got onto this thread, and found this pile of crock.

I am not au fait wth the data, mand i am damn well sure you guys aren’t also. however, i believe that there are some people who sleep very badly at night wih the knowledge they have. these, may i add are not CEO’s of exxon.

Do you have kids? is this a risk worth taking? what will happen is that billions (no bad thing) of people will die, the human race will continue and we will survive.

People die all the time mini, and it has nothing to do with an imaginary catastrophic climate shift.

on a previous thread it was mentioned re attacking iraq that this was what had to be done to preserve and safegaurd the way of life that americans have.

this is a bigger security risk that al bloody queida and if that was not a risk to any way of life, nay, survival, then what is.

Protect your own way of life cause i can assure you it will bite you in the ass

I think maybe you have sucked down just a little too much Kool-Aid. There is no catastrophe waiting to pounce on us and destroy billions of people. Why would you think something like that? Are you one of THEM?
[/quote]

one of them…?

One of who…?

people do die all the time, but wait when the economy foes up the shitter and we are left out to fend for ourselves.

My concern is based around a shortage of Haribo sweeties. what then!?!?!

Vroom, did you read the article yourself? We are talking about a less than one degree rise in average ocean temperatures over forty years. Pardon me while I yawn.

The whole point of Global Warming politics and science and money is based on the attempt to generate a panic. So the guys who modeled the greenhouse gases effect got some numbers closer… so what? There’s still no panic here. This new data analysis will do more to dissuade the US from signing the Kyoto Accord than anything. A less than one degree rise over forty years is not a reason to do anything at all. This just cements the whole “Global Warming is not a crisis” idea in my mind.

How people can take something like this and extrapolate it into “we’re all gonna die!!!” is just hilarious to me.

[/quote]

Buddy, you obviously know nothing about the earth’s climate. A change in 1 degree change in the total average temperature is very significant. You understand the concept of average? This means that some places will experience much more warming than others, ie. the arctic, which could mean higher sea levels. It is true that this will not completely wipe us out, but rising sea levels will exacerbate the damage caused by tropical storms and hurricanes, in turn resulting in economic losses. There is a huge number of variables that will be affected by minute changes in the earth’s temperature.

It is not exactly life or death, but is certainly a serious issue that merits our attention.

Also, have you seen about global dimming. no, its not about the members of this forum, but the amount of solar radiation hitting the eatrth. This is due to particulates in the air, causing more cloud and therefore reflecting more height = less heat.

sounbds wierd.

But, post 9 11 when no aircraft were flying, there was the single biggest day/night temp diff, of a change in (i hope this is right) 11 degree.

What this means is that global dimming could have been protecting us from the whole issue re GW.

Particulates (not co2) are being reduced via scubbers on power stations etc. this means when that goes down, reflection and dimming go down, and the heat goes up.

time to fry and dye baby

[quote]miniross wrote:
time to fry and dye baby [/quote]

Should we go blonde, or would redhead be more fetching?

being of the red head persuasion myself, i wish to remain one of the chasitsed few…

so blonde

Miniross- (no doubt the mating call that all of those English lasses with their perfect British teeth beckon you with) -Learn grammar, punctuation, and spelling before calling my post a “pile of crock.” In fact learn how to read so you can have some faint notion of what this post is about.

Do all of that, and I, and this is going to hurt, as one of Germanic descent will still hand you your ass in your Mother Tongue.

One brief skim of your post shows quite clearly why the sun is setting on the British Empire, or what’s left of it anyway.

Here’s to our “Special Relationship,” Lucas refrigeration and therefore warm beer, public drunken brawling, skyrocketing crime rates, Rover, and modern dentistry, not to mention socialized health care,

Schrauper

Schrauper.

BOOOOOO HOOOOOO.

Also, my ability to read, punctuate and lose sleep over this post have little to do with my ability to flame yor ass.

However, your bang on wrt to rover, empire, drunken brawling. not so with crime. How many people were killed and maimed on your doorstep?

as an aside, my handle comes from the fact i have a mini (car…before you say). Whats the orgin of yours…the STD clinic?

In general-

After having read the posts here and lots of the attached links, I think that my original post sums it up pretty well.

Climate study was a relative scientific backwater until the notion of gobal warming and cheap computing power came along. Combine the two and Presto! come up with some projections, scare some people, and watch the attention and money roll in. You get to burn up natural resources ripped from Mother Earth and generate green house gases flying all over and attending conferences on how NOT to burn up natural resources and generate green houses gases. People love you for it. They give you money and attention. You get be perceived as the winner of those nasty little academic spats, as serious as they are useless.

But: your projections are all over the map, and even include cooling scenarios, which you brush aside. They still don’t run worth a shit run backwards.

Your methods are shoddy and riddled with errors.

You can’t be sure that you know all of the variables, or even their weights in the models, or even how they work or interact.

When someone brings up those nasty little asides, you question there motives, as if yours are squeaky clean.

Never mind all that, you have a CAUSE and therefore no evidence is needed. You KNOW how things are going to work out that way, you don’t need no stinkin’ evidence. You get together and write up a little treaty, omitting by design the your two biggest variables.

Global warming as is now known- An ant’s fart in a windstorm.

Kyoto-fiddling with the ant’s diet so that he might fart a little less, if he want’s to eat that new stuff of course.

But for your sake Miniross, I have an idea. Prevent any ships from burning any fossil fuels that bring filthy capitalist lucre to the British Isle. All of that grain used to brew beer and make whiskey will have to be diverted to feeding people. Then you won’t get so drunk and piss and vomit all over your streets and post like a besotted idiot.

I’m sure that the rest of you morally superior lefties can think up personal save the planet action plans. Please do, and if you are at a loss I have a very simple idea for you- stop breathing.

right, i am off out in my rover into town to pull some slag with bad teeth and dubious parentage, get drunk, fall over and bemoan the fall of the british empire.

One last thing before. glass houses, throwing stones. Their is spelt like THEIR, not THERE.