Frzn, that is a very well-thought-out response which sounds like it comes from a place of experience. Thank you! I have been using 5/3/1 on my squat since January and frankly there hasn’t been much improvement. Well, I shouldn’t say that. I’ve been able to squat slightly more weight with shitty form. So that’s something, but stepping back to look at the big picture, that is not my goal.
I absolutely know where the line is with my knee cave. Its from 90-100 lbs. depending upon the day. And I know that my knee cave becomes worse with fatigue during a set. So the first rep might be fine, the second rep might have knee “wiggle” and the third rep has full-on knee cave.
It might make sense to take my squat off of the 5/3/1 program and simply work it as you suggest. The rest of my lifts (deads, MP and bench) don’t have bad form issues and thus are benefiting much more from the 5/3/1 protocol, so onwards with those.
Can I make a crazy suggestion and suggest you try eating an extra 200 calories a day (protein mostly) for a month and see what that does for your strength?
[quote]giterdone wrote:
Can I make a crazy suggestion and suggest you try eating an extra 200 calories a day (protein mostly) for a month and see what that does for your strength?
You won’t get the fatz…I promise.[/quote]
I am SOOOOO disappointed in you, you decide to make a crazy suggestion and thats what you go with? I was at least expecting the “naughty reform school girl who gets 200 more calories a day of protein”
[quote]giterdone wrote:
Can I make a crazy suggestion and suggest you try eating an extra 200 calories a day (protein mostly) for a month and see what that does for your strength?
You won’t get the fatz…I promise.[/quote]
Now I have this song in ma head:
more, More, MORE!
I know that eating more is a path forward to greater strength. But my goal is a bit more targeted then just more strength gained in whatever manner I can gain it. I’d like to be stronger just from working hard in the gym. Not by eating more or taking supplements or whatever else.
And its OK if that takes longer. Its a marathon not a sprint, and the prize is the journey.
[quote]giterdone wrote:
Can I make a crazy suggestion and suggest you try eating an extra 200 calories a day (protein mostly) for a month and see what that does for your strength?
You won’t get the fatz…I promise.[/quote]
I am SOOOOO disappointed in you, you decide to make a crazy suggestion and thats what you go with? I was at least expecting the “naughty reform school girl who gets 200 more calories a day of protein”
What were you thinking?[/quote]
man…you right! I must be low on carbs or something. Not thinking straight.
[quote]kimbakimba wrote:
Frzn, that is a very well-thought-out response which sounds like it comes from a place of experience. Thank you! I have been using 5/3/1 on my squat since January and frankly there hasn’t been much improvement. Well, I shouldn’t say that. I’ve been able to squat slightly more weight with shitty form. So that’s something, but stepping back to look at the big picture, that is not my goal.
I absolutely know where the line is with my knee cave. Its from 90-100 lbs. depending upon the day. And I know that my knee cave becomes worse with fatigue during a set. So the first rep might be fine, the second rep might have knee “wiggle” and the third rep has full-on knee cave.
It might make sense to take my squat off of the 5/3/1 program and simply work it as you suggest. The rest of my lifts (deads, MP and bench) don’t have bad form issues and thus are benefiting much more from the 5/3/1 protocol, so onwards with those.
New ideas = good.[/quote]
Okay I have given this some thought and I think I have an idea. Somewhere you have an imbalance of some sort that you have not had any luck pining down. So maybe you could try short distance, heavy as you can stand, perhaps with straps to help your grip, farmer’s walks. Whatever you are missing should get hit with walking, and the short, heavy famer’s walks should hit it without undue stress.
[quote]giterdone wrote:
Can I make a crazy suggestion and suggest you try eating an extra 200 calories a day (protein mostly) for a month and see what that does for your strength?
You won’t get the fatz…I promise.[/quote]
Now I have this song in ma head:
more, More, MORE!
I know that eating more is a path forward to greater strength. But my goal is a bit more targeted then just more strength gained in whatever manner I can gain it. I’d like to be stronger just from working hard in the gym. Not by eating more or taking supplements or whatever else.
And its OK if that takes longer. Its a marathon not a sprint, and the prize is the journey.[/quote]
Now it’s in ma haid dammit
Others know better than me, but the best method I’ve found for getting stronger without gaining more weight is heavy damned singles 90%+ of max and keeping the volume low. Regular deload sessions after 9-12 training sessions light and for volume to keep the joints in working order. Gotta watch form closely though, because as the poundages climb, the chances for getting hurt increase - mostly because calories are being restricted, compromising recovery, hence the low volume. Fella by the name John McKean advocates 3 singles of 80,90,100(+,-)% in 3 movements, 3 sessions a week and rotating lifts within the week. Assistance at your discretion. He squatted over 550 raw @165 using this scheme.
That’s another thing: this knee cave may simply be a learned motor pattern wherein you go with your perceived strengths automatically. I think that if you change your stance to being a bit wider and make sure that, as you rise from the squat to your sticking point (where the knees will cave), you force the elbows forward, arch hard and force the knees out as you spread the floor you will go right through the sticking point. All of those things change your leverage advantageously.
MiM may be right, you might be depending on your thighs rather than your hips to squat. A wider stance will force using the hips, hams and glutes to move the weight. Changing stance will let you ingrain a new motor pattern. Shoot, I had to do that myself after squatting incorrectly for 2 years. Now I can keep my knees out even on close-stance squats.
From stripper poles (and my image of you using said pole whistles), to Joe and Git’s crazy antics, to the whole knee cave discussion…great stuff in here!
Sorry to hear about the kitty But I’m glad you’re managing to keep yourself up and you’re still able to get the nice long bike rides in.
That squat with the narrow stance did look pretty strong. You’re incredible flexible btw (more fodder for my stripping kimba imagery) - like Cal, i’d topple right over.
Anywho, great work on getting that 25er on the back raise! You’re a lot stronger than you think!
[quote]kimbakimba wrote:
Bobbi, I like that explanation a whole lot.
N., I love it when you talk like that. Indeed, I have been working on back raises for a long while.
George, if you watched that video, you saw the yoga pants! I did like the narrow stance squats, but it felt and looked weird. I do plan to experiment more with this.
[/quote]
I was hoping there were more…
on the squat stance - I was really just wondering aloud if a narrow stance would make a difference.
I don’t have a knee cave issue but front squat, wider stance, toes at 45 degrees or so really forces my knees out more than back squats. Perhaps getting the motor patterns down first through front squats will carry over to back squats.
could it be a flexibility issue that makes it hard to keep knees out?
low rep (5-7), very heavy walking lunges have helped my hip stability and glute/ham strenght. You could probably use the 35s maybe the 40s.
There’s no way you can go wrong Kimba! Lots of people giving you great suggestions…this place is awesome!
I’d probably just pick one and hammer it and move on to the next…or one day work on uni stuff and the next some hip/glute stuff…the key is to do it consistently to be able to notice a difference.
Kave you tried sweet talking your knees into cooperating? Or conversely, bitch slapping them into submission? Hmmm…?
Edit: I meant to write “Have you…” but it stays due to the topic at hand. Also, smiley face stays, just for Snap (and winky face for you too!) I’m clearly delirious right now.
But I’m glad you’re managing to keep yourself up and you’re still able to get the nice long bike rides in.
(and winky face for you too!) I’m clearly delirious right now.