I have searched the forum many times looking for an answer to my question and I can’t seem to find one that pertains directly to what I’m looking for, so I decided to make a new post (I hope I didn’t overlook something in the archives and don’t get flamed for this, if I missed something I apologize). My question is in regards to carbohydrate intake, glycemic index, and the likelihood for developing type-II diabetes. I’m currently putting together a bulking diet and I plan on using the high-carb/high-protein/mod-fat approach for awhile. I most likely will be following Berardi’s guidelines for Massive Eating (P+C, P+F). However, because of time constraints and convenience factors, it is hard for me to get all of my carbohydrates from complex sources, so I am considering consuming simple sugars as well for a large part of my carb intake (in accordance with some of Cy Willson’s suggestions in the “Skinny Bastard Diet”). With all the talk recently about Glycemic Index, I went out and bought a book that explains the whole concept of GI, and it proposes keeping your diet as low-GI as possible to prevent illness, type-II diabetes, etc. It also has a chart with the GI of several hundred foods, and some of them, while being relatively high in sugars (natural or otherwise), still have a relatively low GI in comparison with some of the more complex sources of carbs. So my question is, in my attempt to avoid developing type-II diabetes, what is more important: the GI? or the grams of sugars something has it in, period? Will consuming a larger-than-usual amount of simple sugars (my whole life I’ve never taken much of a liking to candy, sugar, fruit juice, etc.) over an extended period of time lead to diabetes, regardless of the GI? Or is GI the sole determinant in the matter? I’m aware that simple sugar intake can sometimes lead to fat gain, but, seeing as I’m relatively skinny with a high metabolism, that’s not much of a concern to me now. I’m also aware that there is something called the Insulin Index that I plan to do more research on. Until then, I figured posting this would be a good start for me. Anyone with answers, and preferably some kind of evidence to back up what they say will be GREATLY appreciated. Maybe even Berardi himself could offer his input on the matter (if he happens to come across this post)? Thanks again.
I’ve been a long time fan of the glycemic index and eat low GI most of the time except pre/post WO when the body is capable of excepting some high GI simple carbs (maltodextrin or surge). With regards to simple sugars, sugars with a low GI, such as fructose, do not replace muscle glycogen (as they are metabolized in the liver) and as such, are a poor choice on a bulking diet as they are more apt to be turned into fat. Low GI fruits also have a higher fructose content and make a poor choice on bulking diet. You want to eat carbs on a bulking diet that are capable of being stored as muscle glycogen. Avoid sources of fructose, sucrose (white table sugar), and lactose (milk sugars as in yogurt or milk) as these type of sugars, while being low GI, will be more apt to be stored as fat on a high calorie bulking diet. They are fine when eating at maintenance, but since they cann’t be used for muscle glycogen, will be stored as fat on hypercalorie diet. On hypercalorie bulking diet, stick to complex carbs that can be stored as muscle glycogen. Oatmeal or pasta are good examples of low GI carbs that can be converted to muscle glycogen. There’s more to carbs than just low/high GI when it comes to how the carb is metabolized and used by the body. If wanting to use simple carbs/sugars, stick to maltodextrin as 1st choice and dextrose/glucose 2nd as these sugars can be stored as muscle glycogen and that is why they use them in Surge and MRP’s.
There are many factors when it comes to developing type II diabetes and the glycemic or insulin index is only one of them. My suggestion would be to get a fasting glucose test done on regular occasions if you are interested in keeping an eye on diabetes.
Although the general advice is to keep carb intake at low GI carbs, bulking kind of changes this around. It is ok to eat high glycemic carbs during a serious bulking cycle. My advice would be to try to keep the high GI carb intake within the 3 hours after your workout. At other times, I would suggest keeping your carb intake primarily low GI.
Also remember that when you mix high glycemic carbs with protein (especially animal or casein), digestion and the insulin response is slowed down, so it has less of an effect. The big insulin response occurs when high GI carbs are eaten alone or are eaten with a fast digesting protein like whey.
Hope this helps!
Sorry if I ask you alot of questions, but you seem to know a lot about nutrition. How do you know so much? My real question is what kinds of carbs do you eat while bulking?
Heb is a stud who seems to digest everything he reads with a photographic memory. I just wanted to give some props to one of the most prolific contributors on this board.
Jason N. nailed it down 
On hypercalorie bulking diet, I avoid carbs such as fructose and lactose (yogurt and milk) in favor of starchy complex carbs. I eat tons of oatmeal and pasta, sweet potatoes, and some rice. Although I don’t normally eat any refined grain products except pasta, breads would probably be ok, especially in your post WO meal. I also don’t eat regular potatoes but potatoes would also be ok in post WO meal. During maintenance dieting, I eat relatively low carb with carbs coming from low GI vegatables and fruits and some oatmeal and a little pasta. I always use fat free tomato based sauce on pasta. Just plain salsa works fine if in a hurry. Note, the only time I bulk is when using Mag-10, etc when I can handle the additional carbs as I don’t normally handle a lot of carbs well if not on androgens, etc.
Jason and Heb, I can’t thank you enough for your replies. I realize now that there are so many things to consider besides just GI. Thanks again for the help guys!
Heb, just curious…what type of pasta do you eat? I know some are much lower GI than others…
I’ve always just stuck to fettuccine. There are some protein enriched pasta on the market now that looks good but I haven’t tried them yet as I normally don’t eat a lot of pasta (as I normally don’t eat a lot of carbs). But if eating carbs, I believe fettuccine, etc is a good choice and the new protein enriched pastas look promising. (though I don’t know what protein source they use to enrich the pasta with…hope it’s not soy…need to check).
I must of been brain dead earlier as I forgot to mention one of my main and prefered carb sources is beans…black or red (kidney) beans mixed with salsa. No baked beans or pork & beans. Just plain black, red or garbonzo beans out of the can with no added ingrediants.
Thanks as always Heb…think I might look into the protein enriched types myself as they appear to have lower GI’s than many other types of pasta.
Hi Heb,
You say in your ealier post you hope not soy protein, may I ask why. Forgive me if this is redundant for the site, I’m new…Savannah
Do a search on the T-Mag site, using “soy protein” as your search word. You’ll read exactly why. Stay away from that stuff.
Welcome aboard Savannah. You’ve come to the right forum. You’ll find that T-men avoid soy products as studies have shown that the natural phyto-estrogens in soy mimick real estrogen in the body and bind to estrogen receptors causing the same receptor transcription as real estrogen. T-men strive to optimize our testosterone to estrogen ratio (increase testosterone and decrease estrogen) as testosterone produces all the positive body composition changes and excess estrogen in men raises havoc with body composition and makes us watch too much Oprah and Richard Simmons. We take supplements such as “M” to reduce our estrogen levels and let testosterone work more efficiently. Soy products with their phyto-estrogens cause the symptoms of elevated estrogen in men. Soy is fine for menopausal women but T-men avoid it like the plague. The only “positive studies” on soy were conducted/funded by the soy institute and are outright biased for the sole purpose of promoting/selling soy products for their profit and no regard for the health of the consumer. The soy institute is not doing us any favors as they would like us to believe…they just want to sell us soy. But then again, maybe we all need to get in touch with our feminine side. Spend some time reading the past issues. Good luck.
heb…where did you get your information on that lactose behaves the same way as fructose?
i was aware as you stated that fructose was “sucked up” by the liver without going into muscle glycogen, however i have never heard of this with lactose.
as im a poor student this is quite worrying as a good deal of m protien comes from skim milk powder.
i thought that lactose was glucose and galactose, and the liver converts the galactose into glucose which then enters the blood stream. (possibly this mechanism is why lactose has a relativly low GI, i dunno).
anyway…if you could post a link or other wise enlightnen me, id be thankful for it
cheers
You are correct - lactose is broken down into
glucose and galactose. The glucose can be
stored as glycogen like normal, but heb is
correct that galactose cannot be stored as
glycogen directly; like fructose, it must
first be processed by the liver. Sucrose and
lactose are actually kind of similar in that
they are both disacharides that split into
glucose and one “other” monosacharide that
cannot be readily used by muscle. Sucrose
obviously has a higher GI/II however.
so the galactose isnt converted into glucose then?
and in fact heb was right, both fructose and lactose (though only half as much so as fructose as half of it is glucose) are useless for replesishing muscle glycogen?
Heb, Jason, etc…
What are your thoughts on the anti nutrient content of whole grains? After reading the interview with Dr Lorren Cordain (link below) at Dr Mercola site i became doubtfull if whole grains are indeed healthier. Thanks.
http://www.mercola.com/ article/Diet/carbohydrates/ paleolithic_diet.htm
Remove blank spaces when pasting.
Savannah, correct if I’m wrong here, but my impression from an earlier post was that you’re female. If so, then you don’t really have to worry too much about soy protein. (Not that you should skip the recommended reading or anything, just trying to give you a little peace of mind while you’re doing it.) It’s supposed to be bad for men, but fine for women.