Getting Out of the Rat Race

Off Topic
41

I hate to do it, but I have to agree with Brick. I have a friend who decided to pick up and move with no job lined up, no safety net, no established network, etc… After two months of not finding a job in this economy (imagine that) he came back and proceeded to be unemployed for another five months.

He accumulated a mountain of high interest credit card debt and if not for the kindness of his GF who let him live with her for free (which does affect the dynamic of the relationship) he would have been on the street or back home. It was an expensive lesson. The worst part is that he did not accomplish what he set out to do, which was to “get out of the rat race” for a while.

BAD IDEA

As someone who has acquired enough wealth and passive income to get by with out working for a long time if I chose to do so, I would NEVER choose such an option. We have a limited window of time with which to accumulate enough assets to ensure our comfort and that of our family. To squander that time is just selfish and irresponsible. Switch jobs if you need to. Take a vacation. But the idea you proposed is just not in keeping with reality - especially in these economic times.

42

[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
Anyone else see this thread title and think of Robert Kiyosaki and his game CashFlow ?

His definition of Rat Race (my interpretation):
You’re in the rat race when you’re still working for your money to live on. The way to leave the “rat race” is to acquire enough passive income (stuff you don’t work for) that it meets or exceeds your expenditures.
A.k.a. making enough through non-job means that you don’t have to work for a living anymore.[/quote]

Yeah, this is still my definition for me. I learned a lot playing Cashflow particularly on managing expenses, reviewing assets and delayed gratification. The “fast track” goals didn’t really inspire me when I move to the outer circle, maybe that’s why I haven’t bought my island yet.

43

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I hate to do it, but I have to agree with Brick. I have a friend who decided to pick up and move with no job lined up, no safety net, no established network, etc… After two months of not finding a job in this economy (imagine that) he came back and proceeded to be unemployed for another five months.

He accumulated a mountain of high interest credit card debt and if not for the kindness of his GF who let him live with her for free (which does affect the dynamic of the relationship) he would have been on the street or back home. It was an expensive lesson. The worst part is that he did not accomplish what he set out to do, which was to “get out of the rat race” for a while.

BAD IDEA

As someone who has acquired enough wealth and passive income to get by with out working for a long time if I chose to do so, I would NEVER choose such an option. We have a limited window of time with which to accumulate enough assets to ensure our comfort and that of our family. To squander that time is just selfish and irresponsible. Switch jobs if you need to. Take a vacation. But the idea you proposed is just not in keeping with reality - especially in these economic times.[/quote]

But what about that one guy who said he moved to Wyoming and now has it great!!!

I mean, he must be a representation of what the majority can expect, right?

LOL. In these economic times, you would have to be dumb as horse shit to move half a planet away with no job lined up, no place to stay all with the mentality that you are trying to leave the everyday struggle.

I have friends who haven’t had a job in months who are collecting unemployment so I wouldn’t consider this the best time to drop everything and run free.

Maybe if this were 1967.

44


Would this be represent of Accurate Rat Race out of getting?

V

45

[quote]Vegita wrote:
To me, and this is my ultimate goal, Getting out of the rat race is earning enough money to buy a farmable plot of land, at least 10 acres of good land. Then using modern technology, to subsistance farm. Your structures are ultra energy efficient with solar and geothermal, in 10 years from now these technologies will be good enough to support this type of energy load.

Then I have some beef and milk cows free ranging on my land. I’ll have some ducks and chickens for eggs and meat. I’ll have a large family garden. I’ll sell eggs and milk to people looking for raw milk and local free range eggs and meat. It’s a growing market and you can get much better prices than normal grocery store equivalents.

Anyways, the technology will take those old farming hours of sunup to sundown and cut them down to a couple hours per day regularly with certain days needing more attention, like planting and harvesting days. Maybe 10 acres won’t cut it, maybe I need 20, but in any event, I think one could get a really nice setup for around $500,000. Probably less but until I actually start crunching the numbers thats a safe estimate.

Then at that point your actual cost of living is very low. You’ll need one reliable automobile. A very small grocery budget and then whatever spending and play money you deem necessary. So maybe if you had an additional 100,000 saved to spend slowly, you could live off that for a very long time and you would be bringing in 5-10K in revenues per year off the farm.

V[/quote]

Um, it’ll cost you more than $500,000 to start up if you’re going to use “modern technology.” One machine usually runs around half a million. And from a 20 Acre lot unless you got a feed lot, you’re looking at much less than 10k and depending on how good you are less than 5k. To give you an idea 2700 acres for us was suppose to produce $1.4 million. We lost about half our wheat this year because of damage (we did have Ag so we made up our costs on that part). After all was said in done, we paid 250,000 for labor and stuff (insurance, water, seed, &c), and 100,000 to the harvesters. We made 121 dollars an acre this year.

I don’t mean to bring down anyone’s day, just reality. Don’t want you to get into anything that you’re not expecting.

Let’s look at this formula real quick, in August 2010 wheat was selling at 275-9 a metric tonne, which is 39.2 bushes a metric tonne, and there is 70 bushes of dry land wheat on an acre.

20*70/39.2 = 34-36 tonnes of wheat times 279 dollars a tone. Revenue of $9960. Now, you gotta factor in equipment, labor, if your going to have a harvesting crew do it for you, if not you’ll have to get yourself a machine, run you about 50K at the least if you can pick it off some old farmer. Otherwise you’re going to get something that doesn’t work.

Now, that is everything is just dandy, not rain in the sky to tear up your crop. Otherwise you’re going to have to put down some money for Ag insurance to make sure you can at least cover your cost if your crops are ruined.

I’d suggest buying land and renting it and reinvesting the money from the rent into the land and just buying your food from the local farmers, less work.

46

[quote]Professor X wrote:
1967.[/quote]

Hippie.

47

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
To me, and this is my ultimate goal, Getting out of the rat race is earning enough money to buy a farmable plot of land, at least 10 acres of good land. Then using modern technology, to subsistance farm. Your structures are ultra energy efficient with solar and geothermal, in 10 years from now these technologies will be good enough to support this type of energy load.

Then I have some beef and milk cows free ranging on my land. I’ll have some ducks and chickens for eggs and meat. I’ll have a large family garden. I’ll sell eggs and milk to people looking for raw milk and local free range eggs and meat. It’s a growing market and you can get much better prices than normal grocery store equivalents.

Anyways, the technology will take those old farming hours of sunup to sundown and cut them down to a couple hours per day regularly with certain days needing more attention, like planting and harvesting days. Maybe 10 acres won’t cut it, maybe I need 20, but in any event, I think one could get a really nice setup for around $500,000. Probably less but until I actually start crunching the numbers thats a safe estimate.

Then at that point your actual cost of living is very low. You’ll need one reliable automobile. A very small grocery budget and then whatever spending and play money you deem necessary. So maybe if you had an additional 100,000 saved to spend slowly, you could live off that for a very long time and you would be bringing in 5-10K in revenues per year off the farm.

V[/quote]

Um, it’ll cost you more than $500,000 to start up if you’re going to use “modern technology.” One machine usually runs around half a million. And from a 20 Acre lot unless you got a feed lot, you’re looking at much less than 10k and depending on how good you are less than 5k. To give you an idea 2700 acres for us was suppose to produce $1.4 million. We lost about half our wheat this year because of damage (we did have Ag so we made up our costs on that part). After all was said in done, we paid 250,000 for labor and stuff (insurance, water, seed, &c), and 100,000 to the harvesters. We made 121 dollars an acre this year.

I don’t mean to bring down anyone’s day, just reality. Don’t want you to get into anything that you’re not expecting.

Let’s look at this formula real quick, in August 2010 wheat was selling at 275-9 a metric tonne, which is 39.2 bushes a metric tonne, and there is 70 bushes of dry land wheat on an acre.

20*70/39.2 = 34-36 tonnes of wheat times 279 dollars a tone. Revenue of $9960. Now, you gotta factor in equipment, labor, if your going to have a harvesting crew do it for you, if not you’ll have to get yourself a machine, run you about 50K at the least if you can pick it off some old farmer. Otherwise you’re going to get something that doesn’t work.

Now, that is everything is just dandy, not rain in the sky to tear up your crop. Otherwise you’re going to have to put down some money for Ag insurance to make sure you can at least cover your cost if your crops are ruined.

I’d suggest buying land and renting it and reinvesting the money from the rent into the land and just buying your food from the local farmers, less work.[/quote]

I’m not going to have a commercial farm. And the modern technology wasn’t to imply modern combines and harvesters. I said it was going to be a subsistance farm. I’ll have beef and milk cows. I’ll milk by hand and use the product for myself and sell a small amount to some local people looking for raw milk. The land only has to support the cattle and the poultry. I’ll have Muscovy Ducks and Chickens also free range. Maybe a couple hogs. Other than that my garden will be a very large “family” garden. I’ll plant and harvest by hand and sell produce on a roadside stand or at a farmers market.

The modern technology is going to be the solar and geothermal to power and heat my buildings.

Like I said, it’s 10-20 years out so the prices may be vastly different, but I should be able to pull it off within that time and have plenty of money to spare. Living a simple anxiety free existance is much more desireable than living paycheck to paycheck in a dog eat dog world. Also the extra money I have saved will get me through any hard times such as a crop loss or something. I’ll employ canning and jerking and other such “old fashioned” forms of food preservation for the winters.

V

48

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Eli B wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

The guy voluntarily moved to Wyoming. Out of all 50 states, he chose Wyoming. That should tell you a bit about it right there…[/quote]

…came a voice, ironically, from new jersey…
[/quote]

…came a doubting voice, even more ironically, from Missouri…the state that sucks so much it makes the corn in Kansas lean east.[/quote]

It leans that way to be closer to the glory.

50

[quote]pushharder wrote:
& BTW, define rat race. I know what it means to me, but what does it mean to you?[/quote]

I’d like to hear this from everyone throwing their two cents in the pot. I clicked on this thread with Gambit’s definition (more or less) in mind and was surprised at some of the responses.

51

I moved across the country at 18 with about one months rent and a back pack and it worked out but I wouldn’t try that today. It was a high risk thing to do, no doubt.

As for the ‘rat race’ I happen to really enjoy it. The rat race means to me working in the corporate 9 to 5 world (or 6 am to 6 pm world).

52

[quote]Eli B wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Eli B wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

The guy voluntarily moved to Wyoming. Out of all 50 states, he chose Wyoming. That should tell you a bit about it right there…[/quote]

…came a voice, ironically, from new jersey…
[/quote]

…came a doubting voice, even more ironically, from Missouri…the state that sucks so much it makes the corn in Kansas lean east.[/quote]

It leans that way to be closer to the glory.[/quote]

You mean Ireland? I didn’t know Ireland was held in such high regard by Missourians. All I can say is at least your not an Arkansan.

53

[quote]Vegita wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
To me, and this is my ultimate goal, Getting out of the rat race is earning enough money to buy a farmable plot of land, at least 10 acres of good land. Then using modern technology, to subsistance farm. Your structures are ultra energy efficient with solar and geothermal, in 10 years from now these technologies will be good enough to support this type of energy load.

Then I have some beef and milk cows free ranging on my land. I’ll have some ducks and chickens for eggs and meat. I’ll have a large family garden. I’ll sell eggs and milk to people looking for raw milk and local free range eggs and meat. It’s a growing market and you can get much better prices than normal grocery store equivalents.

Anyways, the technology will take those old farming hours of sunup to sundown and cut them down to a couple hours per day regularly with certain days needing more attention, like planting and harvesting days. Maybe 10 acres won’t cut it, maybe I need 20, but in any event, I think one could get a really nice setup for around $500,000. Probably less but until I actually start crunching the numbers thats a safe estimate.

Then at that point your actual cost of living is very low. You’ll need one reliable automobile. A very small grocery budget and then whatever spending and play money you deem necessary. So maybe if you had an additional 100,000 saved to spend slowly, you could live off that for a very long time and you would be bringing in 5-10K in revenues per year off the farm.

V[/quote]

Um, it’ll cost you more than $500,000 to start up if you’re going to use “modern technology.” One machine usually runs around half a million. And from a 20 Acre lot unless you got a feed lot, you’re looking at much less than 10k and depending on how good you are less than 5k. To give you an idea 2700 acres for us was suppose to produce $1.4 million. We lost about half our wheat this year because of damage (we did have Ag so we made up our costs on that part). After all was said in done, we paid 250,000 for labor and stuff (insurance, water, seed, &c), and 100,000 to the harvesters. We made 121 dollars an acre this year.

I don’t mean to bring down anyone’s day, just reality. Don’t want you to get into anything that you’re not expecting.

Let’s look at this formula real quick, in August 2010 wheat was selling at 275-9 a metric tonne, which is 39.2 bushes a metric tonne, and there is 70 bushes of dry land wheat on an acre.

20*70/39.2 = 34-36 tonnes of wheat times 279 dollars a tone. Revenue of $9960. Now, you gotta factor in equipment, labor, if your going to have a harvesting crew do it for you, if not you’ll have to get yourself a machine, run you about 50K at the least if you can pick it off some old farmer. Otherwise you’re going to get something that doesn’t work.

Now, that is everything is just dandy, not rain in the sky to tear up your crop. Otherwise you’re going to have to put down some money for Ag insurance to make sure you can at least cover your cost if your crops are ruined.

I’d suggest buying land and renting it and reinvesting the money from the rent into the land and just buying your food from the local farmers, less work.[/quote]

I’m not going to have a commercial farm. And the modern technology wasn’t to imply modern combines and harvesters. I said it was going to be a subsistance farm. I’ll have beef and milk cows. I’ll milk by hand and use the product for myself and sell a small amount to some local people looking for raw milk. The land only has to support the cattle and the poultry. I’ll have Muscovy Ducks and Chickens also free range. Maybe a couple hogs. Other than that my garden will be a very large “family” garden. I’ll plant and harvest by hand and sell produce on a roadside stand or at a farmers market.

The modern technology is going to be the solar and geothermal to power and heat my buildings.

Like I said, it’s 10-20 years out so the prices may be vastly different, but I should be able to pull it off within that time and have plenty of money to spare. Living a simple anxiety free existance is much more desireable than living paycheck to paycheck in a dog eat dog world. Also the extra money I have saved will get me through any hard times such as a crop loss or something. I’ll employ canning and jerking and other such “old fashioned” forms of food preservation for the winters.

V[/quote]

I wouldn’t say farming…even sustenance (not subsistence) farming…is not filled with anxiety (probably especially sustenance farming as you have one shot for the year to get yourself prepared for awhile). However, the work is more satisfying…usually.

My grandfather has a farm/garden now, before he had a large farm then retired for awhile got tired of it and started gardening. And, he probably would die if he didn’t have some kind of stressful work. Nevertheless, it’s not a non-stressful job. Especially when you’re the only one that is supporting yourself.

After all some medical/psych associate rated farmers as the number one stressful jobs, the carrier that produces the most white hair in the world.

54

[quote]debraD wrote:
I moved across the country at 18 with about one months rent and a back pack and it worked out but I wouldn’t try that today. It was a high risk thing to do, no doubt.

As for the ‘rat race’ I happen to really enjoy it. The rat race means to me working in the corporate 9 to 5 world (or 6 am to 6 pm world). [/quote]

I’m more of the sun up to sun down kind of guy.

55

Guess I forgot to mention it was in 1994 when I moved. But if X says it can’t be done then I guess it’s not possible. Good thing the internet wasn’t around in the 1800’s or the west would still be empty but for the Indians.

If you have no one you’re responsible for, have some balls and a brain, and want adventure go for it.

56

This thread is sort of relevant to my current situation. I’m 9 months out of college and still haven’t found a job yet, people here (even a few of my professors) are telling me to leave Michigan and try to find work in another state. My grandpa owns a condo in L.A. that he only stays at a few times a year, and says I can stay there until I get something going. Both grandmas in Georgia and Kansas tell me I can stay with them until I get something going too, but I’d be living at their homes.

Most of the people I stayed in touch with from my graduating class simply left Michigan after graduation and found work. A lot of them went to Chicago, some simply moved a little south to Indiana and Ohio. But most of them had family there to live with and had planned on it anyway.

Only two people I know from school actually found jobs after college, but only after 6 months of looking.

I see it this way: I can stay here and remain unemployed at my moms house for however longer it will take to find work, or be unemployed in another state and live with a different relative until eventually I find something. At the very least the employment prospects can’t possibly be WORSE than Michigan, since the unemployment rate here is the 2nd highest in the country.

If I do go, I’ll at least have a place to stay and a few bucks in my pocket, and I have a college degree AND the CPA exam under my belt. I’m not leaving with “nothing”. Plus, I don’t have kids or any dependents.

I don’t know what to do. Grab the balls and forge ahead? Flip a coin? Squats and milk?

57

[quote]pushharder wrote:
& BTW, define rat race. I know what it means to me, but what does it mean to you?[/quote]

I see it more as :

  1. Income from sources not requiring you to work (business that you own but someone else runs, properties, paper assets, royalties etc) exceeds what you spend on. Perhaps this is a technical definition.

OR

  1. Leaving what you normally work as or have worked as and do something that you enjoy, want to learn, want to experience etc. Many would say you would need lots of $$ to achieve this, but again if passive income > expenses then you could do this for as long as you want.

But do you need passive income > expenses to escape a rat race? No. What if you do something you enjoy, you earn a living (income) and that income pays for expenses, covers you and a family (say) - then isn’t that escaping the rat race too?

If I’ve only experienced a “rat” race*, then anything else will seem like escaping a rat race. Of course it helps that I enjoy the activities that I’m replacing the rat race with. But any lifestyle that’s repetitive, tough on the emotions (life shortening), stressful has the potential to be a rat race too.

    • I believe most people conceive a rat race to be the corporate race, an endless assembly line of writing reports, dealing with office politics, making things, chasing things, getting people to pay for things etc all constitute a rat race - not to mention peak hour traffic before and after. Fuck I hate that.

EDIT - I’m not sure what you do for a living Push but I’ve seen a few videos here and there from you (about deers), the photo of your “ride” being a horse and know very little about Montana - but that to me, living that lifestyle would be escaping the rat race for me. I don’t know how long I could do it for, but it would give a lot of pleasure even if it was for a short time.

58

Eat a dick. Missouri is a great place to live and easily far more interesting than Kansas.

Also, I came out to Arizona to get away from Missouri, and to go to college. But mostly it was to get away, and I had only ever visited the state once when I was 6 before I moved out here. I have to say that I completely advocate starting over, it’s a great experience.