Train hard and more frequently…At this age, if you want it, you can probably have it. Don’t set trite goals like a bigger bench press while insincerely whispering about your squat as if you care about it as much. You KNOW you want a bigger bench and you wouldn’t care if you had thin shaft legs with it. My guess is, you’re not really squatting like you should, or you’re not really focused when you do it. Eat lots of meat, especially red meat, have some creatine 5-10 g’s, glutamine 5-10 g’s. If I were you, I’d actually cut down a bit before doing anything else cuz at 185 you should be stronger; I’m assuming you care about how you look. Some other tips, don’t masturbate before training, as the climactic expulsion of steamy ejaculae from your dong will cause your parasympathetic nervous system to release hormones that will put you in an unnecessarily relaxed, sated state, which, I think, Isn’t optimal for weights. Also- and this is something that I do in those rare moments when I train at a gym- make sure that a finely-tuned fly bird (hot chic) is chirping at a hip machine nearby so that you can merge your violently throbbing sexual impulses with your hard and heavy set. This combination is very rare, but I have found it to be most effective in harnessing all that I have in me. Basically, convert all that sexual desire into power on the bar. Have fun and eat meat.
as shocked as i am, right now i got to say that mike the lib has the most direct and truthful response.
I wasn’t going to say anything until I saw the advice others were giving. It’s all good, you certainly should accept most of it, and read every issue on this site. However, I don’t think that’s the real problem at all. I think you’re attitude is the problem.
You see, you’re only 17 and already 185lbs. You’ve only lifted for two years and can bench 230. You want more, good for you. The world is shaped by people who have that kind of drive. The problem is, you want it NOW. Most of the rest of us were lucky to be 150lbs at your age, I was 140. Ten years later I’m 205 and haven’t touched steroids yet. What you need the most is patience. I know how tough that is to hear when you’re 17, that’s part of the problem. I don’t care what your diet is like, or if your T levels are rock bottom, the answer is time.
Assuredly, there are times when you can no longer be patient, like when you haven’t received a raise at work in four years. Then quit and go somewhere else. But we’re talking about your body and the discipline required to make it do what you want it to do. There is no easy way around that, it takes hard work and time. Look around and you’ll see the world is filled with people promising a quick fix, an easy diet, a miracle pill. When the answer is time. Hold the course, educate yourself on this site and others like it, and I promise you, in three or four years, you’ll be where you want to be.
heres my reccomendation: follow either the get big diet(john berardi) or the POW diet(Peter Loux). As for training, go with Charles Poliquin’s “Training with Maximal Weights”.
Basically, eat like a hungry mo-fo, train very hard, but definitely don’t overtrain.
As for supplements, go with a quality MRP(Grow,Myoplex) is definitely one) and Surge.
Just make sure your diet is perfect and you train hard. The results will come.
Try HMB … I’ve heard it’s like Deca… and the Body for life routine is a great mass builder… Ok…Ok… first things first. Take a week off… if you haven’t had a break from the gym in a long while, it should be the first thing to do… it will give you time to get your food log in order. The week off will not only have you rested up, but eager to hit the gym with renewed enthusiasm. Now telling you which routines to do won’t really do as much for you as your reading and learning for yourself… any of the routines here will build mass and strength… some more mass than strength & vice versa… so you need to start a routine with what your first goal is… strength or mass… then switch it up… reading for yourself will build your knowledge.
Sure you can lift a little heavier, but are you lifting right, are you eating right? You will if you read.
99% of the folks here are older than you... and spent years learning useless info or just snipets until T-mag put it all together... You are so lucky to have the T-mag library at your age... but don't stop there.... read every thing you can from other sites as well... several contributers have their own websites.
Knowledge IS power!
You also need to learn patience… it’s something that many older people haven’t mastered… body building is a goal for life…not just an endever for the beach season…or to get that cute babe at school (you’ll also want to be able to bag her when she’s 30).
As for supplements - protein, good fats, and quality carbs, in the ratios that you’ll learn to calculate and recalculate as you progress… vitamins if your diet lacks in an area… anything else is up to you, but at your age try to max out your unassisted potential. Try nothing else till you’ve hit a plateau and exausted diet & training shifts… I understand Andro works best on older guys… save it for then and save a little money to spend on that date with the babe.
One last thing, and this may seem corny but being a big mofo is not the end all… charater with muscle is what you should be aiming for. There are lots of big boys that are not well liked or respected. Make your parents and those around you proud of you… you’ll end up with emense pride in yourself and it goes along way to becoming a self assured confident Man.
Cris… why not give the T shirt to this young man? He was after all seeking knowledge (even if he should have work a little more for it himself).
if you are already frustrated i think a food log will just make you more angry (it is tedious). So don’t do one, if you can mentally keep track of what you eat, and guestimate the calories of each meal, thats what i do anyway. if you aren’t gaining weight, eat more, and if you still aren’t then consciously eat more, this will work in most all cases.
I agree DMan. Mike actually had something quite intelligent to say. Good on ya Mike! But I don’t quite understand your comment that at 17, he would have average or below average T levels. Can you please explain that.
To hell with a T-shirt, give these bastards a spelling dictionary.
About this whole food log thing… I don’t keep one and really don’t see a need to do so. On the other hand, it’s very important to know exactly how many calories you’re taking in and the macro ratios and so forth, so what’s a t-man to do if he doesn’t want to put up with the monotony of writing down everything he eats? Simple! Draw up a couple different “meal plans” that follow your macronutrient and calorie guidelines, then just pick one every day. Actually, I don’t even bother with different meal days and eat almost the same thing every freakin day. But if you don’t want to do that, it’s not that hard to draw up a new day’s worth of food and alternate btw the two. It’s a fast, simple way to do it. Just my two cents…
As for your training Kevin, a 230 bench ain't bad at all at 17 years old, though I'd hazard a guess that you jetison the bar off your chest like every young lifter I've ever seen (including myself years back). Take my advice bro, learn to balance yourself under load first before you worry about your poundages. That means at the very least a controlled descent and a controlled explosion to just short of lockout. As for the actual training program, I have full confidence that you can find one to suit you on t-mag. If you're looking to up your poundages, you'd be very happy with Poliquin's Maximal Weights program or a Westside style program. Dave Tate outlined a full 8 week program a couple months ago, and Poliquin's program was published a couple years ago. Whatever you do, be sure to keep a detailed training diary, and have a plan every single time you walk into the gym. Do not EVER go into the gym wondering what you will be doing or without a specific, written workout to follow. That's probably the single most important advice I can give to you. You'll have to experiment a little yourself on how you like to do this (i personally type mine on a computer and write down poundage, # of reps, and other notes as I'm working out). Good luck and welcome to our brotherhood.
Studies show that testosterone levels don’t peak until late teens/early twenties, and don’t decline appreciably for several decades.
OK, here’s my take…
First of all, you're only 17. You're still growing. Why would you want to worry about taking a prohormone? In fact, why are you even worrying about supplements right now? You should be using a good multivitamin and some protein powder, and that's it. This may be a little heretical to say on a forum that's hosted by a supplement company, but supplements aren't the answer to most problems! Sure they help, but if your training and diet are screwed up then what do you think you need to tend to first? I hear this sort of thing all the time: "I want to start lifting weights. What supplements should I be taking?" The question should really be, "I want to start lifting weights... what routine should I be using and what should I be eating?"
What is your training like? How about your diet? All we know is that your bench is stuck and that you eat a lot. Where does your bench stick? At the bottom? Near the top? These are some things you have to consider before you can work on your bench weaknesses. Maybe it's not a weakness, maybe you're training your bench too often, or too little. Read Dave Tate's articles about benching and get familiar with different assistance exercises that can help you get past your sticking points. As for your diet, what are your macros like? If you're eating shitloads of Twinkies then you're eating a lot, but that isn't going to help you, right? What constitutes "tons" of protein? What may seem like a lot of food may not be - I know skinny guys who have said they eat "a lot", but when they sit down to figure out how many calories they take in they're shocked at how little they actually eat. Sit down sometime and figure out how many calories you take in on a given day, and I bet it'll be less than you think it is. After you do that you'll have a better idea of how much more food you need to eat.
Sorry if I seem a little harsh, but get your priorities straight... Worry about training and diet first, tell us what you're doing in those two departments and then we can help you out more.
BTW, I've already got a t-shirt. Just trying to help out.
I can’t understand, why some advise not to even bother with a food log without even trying…an attempt should at least be made!
If nothing else, he’ll get used to considering the profile of food… Mike, you so strongly recommend a training log while dismissing the other most important part of the equation. At 17 he most likely is on the go so much that he eats when he can and has no “TRUE” idea of what he puts in his cake hole. Yes a food log is a pain in the ass… but anything worth while takes work… he should at least try… if nothing else, doing it for a week can be eye opening…doing it a little longer would surely guarantee some success. Giving up without an attempt is like setting yourself up to fail…
Anyone got change for a nickle?
Dale, a food log is a nice ideal, but i personally find that it causes me to concentrate too much on minutia, and i lose track of the big picture like lifting weights. “but anything worth while takes work” I find that to be true in most cases, but not everything that takes work is worth while. He probably should atleast do a caloric log at the very least for a week. Most people i know say they eat like horses, but they don’t.
dman…that’s exactly my point… doing a caloric log, the macros, to see what he is actually eating.
Diet IS part of the big picture. I don’t think he needs to break it down into vitamins & minerals, but he should see where he stands with the macro nutrients.
It sounds like you were not into it, but it does sound like you tried doing it… did you?.. if so, what did you learn anything at all?
I think it’s just a good exercise to learn a little about personal nutritian.
Is you house in order? Are you eating enough? Anr you eating in the right intervals? every 2-3 hours? You training will follow suit of you diet. But also your are 17, i remember at 17 I was eating properly every 3 hours, getting planty of sleep, taking all kind of supps and protein - my house was in order! But I would just Plateau - No matter what i did t seemed for a few weeks I was stuck. but when your 17 you will grow rapidly, and plateaus can be broke just by waiting them out. At that age it sometimes like magic one day you can only do bench 200lbs 5 times the next week 8 reps cpome with ease. Just have faith and keep traiing smart - i could safely bet that you WILL get stronger.
i don’t log my food. I have since a little kid been known to eat a lot, a lot. I unlike most it seems, have a general feel of the calories i take in every day. I do make sure to get 1g/lb of protein, but thats pretty easy as long as you eat meat.
First off, you have the potential to tap into a massive resource-Your Body’s own testosterone! follow a healthy diet comprised of clean foods giving you ample protien, take surge, a good meal replacement powder, and some essential fatty acids. Sleep 9 hours a night! Train using any of the wonderful resources either here on the forum or in the t-mag search engine, and Don’t overtrain! Eat qaulity calories, and let your waiste-line be your guide. most importantly enjoy what you are doing and the gains will come as you stay true the principles established. most importantly set reasonable goals.
chris-who’s getting the t-shirt?
First off, you’ve come to the right place for some sound solid advice. IF you will APPLY this new found knowledge.
My advice is to take 2 weeks off from training altogether.During this 2 week period buy yourself a food scale, make yourself and food log so that you can count every calorie and macronutrient ratio that goes in your pie hole for the next two weeks. Eat like you normally do and record EVERYTHING. Also, get your bodyfat measured by a competent professional.
Now armed with this information we will have a starting point. After 2 weeks of rest you should also be over any case of over -training you may be suffering from and we can start with a clean slate.
Wait! Let me get my answer in! I’ve really thought about this one. 1) Getting bigger and stronger at the same time can happen of course, but if you really want to get your bench up you need to adopt a powerlifting, not a bodybuilding, program. Search the T-mag archives for bench articles by Dave Date and Ian King and start from there. The forum will be here to help you sort it all out. I’m sure you can add 15 or 20 pounds to your bench just by following the tips provided in various T-mag articles. I’d start with the Dave Tate bench articles- Big Bad Bench- issue 158, and Bench 600 Pounds- issue 115. 2) Ditch the Cell-Tech. God, I hope you didn’t fall for those lame ads. The only supplement you really need right now is some protein powder like AP and maybe a multi-vitamin. The big thing to worry about instead of supplements is… 3) Diet! Read Massive Eating, The Missing Ingredient, and The Diet Manifesto. You don’t have to be anal about a food log but track your intake for a few days just to make sure you’re getting enough calories and protein. Eat quality, mostly non-processed foods- tuna, a variety of meats, oatmeal, fruits and veggies, some eggs and a maybe some skim milk. Ditch the junk food. Use protein powder to fill in the gaps. Don’t worry about prohormones right now.
There’s just a lot of things you can do before you start thinking about andro. Most of this is going to involve some work on your part in the way of reading articles and researching. Everyone has given you some great advice here and narrowed things down for you. The rest is up to you.