[quote]lixy wrote:
But if you really believe in the things you’re writing here, I suggest you vote for McCain. The guy wants to throw Russia out of the G8.[/quote]
I am not sure who is more dangerous, McCain or Obama. McCain may throw head long into a major conflict prematurely and Obama would certainly wait too long to anything if things escalate. The only comfort I have with McCain is that congress will still hold the purse strings and he won’t be doing an war mongering without their approval.
Instead of trying to throw Russia out of the G8 I would like to see us throw our selves out. Opting out of the G8 and NATO as well as well as cutting funding for the UN would be the ultimate wet dream for me.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
lixy wrote:
dhickey wrote:
They are systematically packing Ossatia with Russian to gain support for the region to become a part of Russia, not to be independant as Ossatians have been wanting.
And what kind of evidence or insider’s knowledge do you have to call Russia a liar?
Are you saying they are not? If so i guess I could dig something up for you. If you think they are as well and are just being combative then I won’t bother. [/quote]
I am not saying they are not. They are.
And unless they show signs of belligerence (which in the case of Ossetia was started by Georgia), they deserve the same benefit of the doubt one would grant any government (not much in fact).
[quote]Russia is wants Georgia, Ukraine, and other surrounding territories.
If that was the case, what exactly is stopping them? They got more firepower than would be needed to annihilate Georgia and the Ukraine.
Nothing. It’s just a matter of time. They are testing the waters with Georgia to see how the world reacts.[/quote]
You are completely mad.
They would need to kill every last one of them to get those territories. It’s not the 19th century anymore. Population can actually organize and fight back.
[quote]They know western EU won’t do a think about it as they are dependant on Russia for oil and natural gas.
This is a silly argument. If “western EU” (whatever that means) would do a thing about it, they’d subsequently get control over Russian oil.
western Europe. Soooo you think they will just invade and ocupy Russia becuase there beating up on boarder countries?[/quote]
If Russia attacks Europe, it’s safe to assume that the UN would demand compensations for the latter. Temporary control over oil seems reasonable.
[quote]Those that think Russia is innocent in all of this and they don’t have expansionary dreams is delusional.
Innocent? The mothertruckers were bombing civilians up until a few hours ago.
What part of “innocent” is that?
So we agree? [/quote]
We agree on the part that Russia is anything but innocent. Even forgetting about Georgia for a second, one easily remembers its ruthlessness in Afghanistan and Chechnya.
The question is rather about whether they have actual plans to annex territories surrounding them. And until proven otherwise, I don’t believe that is the case. Of course, they tend to be quite secretive. Not quite like PNAC and co…
[quote]They are flush with oil and natural gas money and are using it, along with diversions of money from other markets to rebuild there ancient military.
Yes, they are stepping up their military build up. But it’s nowhere near Soviet era spendings.
So they are not a military threat? Obviously they are not starting from scratch so it shouldn’t take quite the investment. They don’t have to build nukes. [/quote]
Depends to whom. If we’re talking about Georgia, then they are definitely a threat. They could annihilate the country if they wanted to. And considering they’re on the border, Saakashvili has got to be a total moron to have pulled the “shelling Ossetia” card.
What was he thinking? That’s the thing. He wasn’t.
To anyone with nukes, Russia isn’t a threat. And Europe has got plenty of those to go around.
[quote]Russia, China, and Iran continue to thumb there nose at the world and will do anything that furthers their cause.
As opposed to the US? Gimme a break!
You’re comparing the US to Russia, China, and Iran? Huh.[/quote]
Yes, sir!
American leaders “continue to thumb there nose at the world and will do anything that furthers their cause”.
And in case you need a history lesson, Iran didn’t invade anyone for many many many years. China is being very reasonable about the whole Taiwan thing. And Russia, so far, displayed a lot of restrain in the face of being surrounded by US military bases and missiles.
Get off your high horse, mister. The US bombed more countries in the last 60 years than any other.
Errr…English, please?
I’m talking lobbies. You know, the people that really get to decide what candidate gets elected. American elections are run like a toothpaste ad. Ads need money.
And guess what industry is breaking every record in terms of profits?
[quote]dhickey wrote:
I am not sure who is more dangerous, McCain or Obama. McCain may throw head long into a major conflict prematurely and Obama would certainly wait too long to anything if things escalate. [/quote]
Maybe. Maybe not.
Obama might feel pressured to act prematurely precisely because he is seen as “weak”.
Much good it did recently. The neo-cons still got their way.
You see, when you control information, you control everything. And when you’re the only one to peek at classified documents, you can the populace all you want and they’ll believe you.
Is that uncharismatic non-interventionist Texan doctor still in the race?
And guess what industry is breaking every record in terms of profits?[/quote]
The US Gov’t? They are profiting more on oil than the oil companies are. If you mean profit margins there are at least a dozen industries that offer a better rate of return.
If the oil companies are so influential why has so much oil been off limits? Why are there artificial barriers for new refining capacity? Why do they make less profit on a gallon of gas than the gov’t takes in taxes? Why are they forced to mix ethenol with gasoline? You want to know who is influential look at the farm lobby, environmental lobby, trial lawyer lobby, and the Isreal lobby. Just kidding on that last one but thought I would throw it in there just for you.
Our gov’t has done nothing but handcuff the oil industry in this country. They are making record profit in spite of the US gov’t.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Much good it did recently. The neo-cons still got their way.
[/quote]
How so? Taking out Saddam? Neo-cons were hardly the only ones interested in him.
I don’t want to hijak this thread but if you know anything about the history of the CIA, you will quickly come to the conclusion the information they provide is often wrong. They have also been less than kind to republican presidents. Anyone that thinks GWB and Cheney knew there were absolutly no WMDs and went in anyway is kidding themselves. The CIA grossly underestimated Iraq’s nueclear progress in the past and they were going to make sure that didn’t happen again. Often times international misjudgements accredited to presidents can be traced back to CIA incompetance or deseption. Nothing new.
[quote]
Is that uncharismatic non-interventionist Texan doctor still in the race?
Write him in.[/quote]
Ron Paul? He is a little cooky for me. I’d vote for Bob Barr if he had a chance or if I felt Obama would be no worse than McCain.
[quote]lixy wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
I didn’t so much mean Medvedev, who, until I see otherwise, I consider a puppet for Putin.
Fair enough. But my point stands. Putin won’t be around forever.
[/quote]
So fuckin what? Hitler wasn’t around forever, nor was Stalin or Idi Amin or any other dictator. However, they manage, in their short (or sometimes longer) reigns to fuck up many things. Your point is… well, a given, and pointless.
Now I’m irritated. Find your own strippers.
No, I didn’t miss the point. I was stating a fact. Comparing nationalism to raping children is fucked up and illogical. You can’t fix your argument by trying to say, “Oh, it’s all relative.” It’s not.
The strongest that Russia ever was was under Stalin and his successors.
The message may have been shrouded in USSR propaganda, but their actions from the 50s to the 90s was still telling the world, “You can’t fuck with us.”
I have not yet seen the US, Britain, or France fall backwards into monarchies and oligarchies as Russia has.
No, you can’t just add that, because you’re changing the premise of your argument.
A threat to what? You?
What in the fuck are you talking about? I don’t want the country to slide back into a Putin-led and Russian mob controlled dark age of dictatorship or communism. How that’s a terrible thing, I fail to see.
And there’s a shitload of Americans who believe the moon landings were fake. Big fucking deal.
Go read Russian history and literature, and not off Wikipedia.
This is the plight of empires. They move things forward while at the same time hurting many other countries.
However, if you were to look at the overwhelming current of history, you see that these countries are, more or less, in the lead of democracy and freedom.
It begins with the Magna Carta, then follows to the French Revolution. It has to do with every European power racing to defeat Napoleon because of his ideas of Republicanism and how they might bring down their own monarchies.
And if you’ve got half a brain you’ll bitch about him declaring himself Emperor. Granted. But the movement and ideals were already there and already had started the greatest movement in the history of the world.
I challenge you to find any Muslim led country that ever made such magnificient strides in humanity as Britain did with the Magna Carta or France with the ideals that the French Revolution was based on. Or find the Russian equivalent. Good luck.
You’re good at current events, but not so much with history.
Well. I don’t necessarily disagree with that.
However, the Constitution, and the powerful ideas that holds, and has held for the past 220 years, will assure us that this country will never become the despotic terror that Russia always relies on.
No shit for brains, I think they’re interesting precisely because of this. It is not the people’s fault that this has happened, but because of the massive size and disconnect between it’s peoples that it has, they have not been able to assume a national identity as those of other countries have.
They went straight from Czarism, with its feudal system, to communism, which was a direct reaction to the system that had been in place previously. This all after several invasions over the past millenium that always left them under somebody else’s control.
Even arguably their greatest ruler, Peter the Great, shunned whatever Russian traditions there were in favor of modeling the country off of Western traditions that his country had no natural affinity to, thus further fucking them up.
You can read it in their literature, in Chekhov, Dostoyevsky, anyone else- depressing overtones, the ideals of freedom and right and wrong are disputed, hell, Crime and Punishment even directly cites Napoleon as an example of an uberman. Their greatest work of fiction is about the ideals of a Frenchman. Read Pushkin, who was educated in a French military school, and Eugene Onegin.
I know this is an indepth reply to a shitty retort, so I’m hoping maybe someone with a little more brains understands what I’m saying.
Not at all. I am all for a democratic Russia- however, I believe what we now have is far from a democratic Russia. They have fallen under Putin, and the country goes as he does.
Not only that, but the influence of the Russian Mob really cannot be underestimated when talking anything about Russian politics now. You are a fool to believe those elections are fair in any way.
[quote]
That’s why they’re dangerous.
That seems to be the consensus in Washington. Everybody thinks that putting ballistic missiles in Poland the Czech Republic is a good idea. Even that phony presidential candidate people here keep painting as a dove.
But if you really believe in the things you’re writing here, I suggest you vote for McCain. The guy wants to throw Russia out of the G8.[/quote]
I suggest you keep your opinions on who I should vote for to your fucking self.
The day I hold in any high regards the opinion of a crackpot internet warrior like yourself is the day I off myself.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
What really smells of hypocrisy is Russia. Fighting Georgia so that Ossetia can have “independence” while backing Serbia’s bid to crush the Kosovar Albanians…and the destruction of Chechnia, who also wanted independence.
Why should the Ossetians have independence and not the Kosovars or the Chechens?
Are they backing Serbia and Ossetia because Serbs are Orthodox and Slavs, and the Ossetians because there are Russians in the territory?
Sounds like reasons Hitler gave for attacking Czechoslovakia, and Poland. [/quote]
But the American reasons for attacking Albanians were somewhat more noble? Stopping ethnic cleansing that wasnt even happening? Bombing an independent country and carving it up? Cut the bullshit, the United States or any other country has no right to say anything in regards to Russian actions in Georgia.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
So fuckin what? Hitler wasn’t around forever, nor was Stalin or Idi Amin or any other dictator. However, they manage, in their short (or sometimes longer) reigns to fuck up many things. Your point is… well, a given, and pointless. [/quote]
Gotta love the argumentum ad Hitlerum.
Hitler wasn’t the problem. Nazism was.
Stalin wasn’t the problem. Bolshevism was.
Medvedev has excellent approval ratings. He is not preaching to exterminate anyone. Is not trying to control all aspects of Russian society. He can “fuck up” many things, but then again, so can everyone in a position of power. Russian economical growth is hovering around two-digits. And albeit a formidable societal gap, the situation is Russia is getting better.
Bitching about what he could potentially do is quite absurd.
[quote]I just wanted to talk about booze and strippers.
Less talking. More posting pictures.
Now I’m irritated. Find your own strippers. [/quote]
No offense, but I’ve grown out of that phase.
[quote]I’m not arguing with that. And a certain amount of nationalism isn’t a terrible thing. It has a purpose.
Everything has a purpose.
Smashing one’s head with a bat has a purpose. Raping kids has a purpose. Stealing has a purpose.
I think you missed the point which was about pots and kettles.
No, I didn’t miss the point. I was stating a fact. Comparing nationalism to raping children is fucked up and illogical.[/quote]
I view both of them as evils, but that wasn’t the point. Rather, it was about the absurdity of your argument. That something has a purpose doesn’t make it a good thing.
Ohhhh…you’re slow today. Didn’t get your ethanol fix yet?
I was talking about hypocrisy, not relativity.
True.
Yes.
How is that different from the message in the US? I mean, besides the fact that the US actually refreshes everybody’s mind by bombing people across the globe.
Russia has always been an oligarchy. How it could “fall backwards” into one doesn’t really make sense to me.
[quote]And Iran and China are still small potatoes compared with the threat that the USSR posed, and with the threat that Russia could pose in the future.
Agreed. Allow me to add that they’re all small potatoes compared to the threat the US poses.
No, you can’t just add that, because you’re changing the premise of your argument. [/quote]
Like Hell I can!
You’ve never heard of an addendum before?
To world peace. Most people on this planet agree that your country is a threat to peace.
[quote]Understood. But again, I’m not talking about what is happening right now, so much as the implications of what Russia could head towards.
So you’re going all Minority Report on us now?
Dick Cheney called. He wants his ideas back.
What in the fuck are you talking about? I don’t want the country to slide back into a Putin-led and Russian mob controlled dark age of dictatorship or communism. How that’s a terrible thing, I fail to see.[/quote]
It’s a terrible thing because you claim to know what is best for them. In another context, that’ll be quite alright, but on a thread where Cold War rhetoric is thrown out (and actual hatred towards Russian people), it can lead to ugly things.
Of course, you may not be advocating violence, coups or wars. In which case, I take everything I said back. But I think you should make it explicit seeing how the original question wasn’t directed at you.
[quote]Truth be told, Russia is interesting because of more than vodka and strippers. The country has no national identity, no sense of what their country should be or should stand for.
There are a shitload of Russians who would disagree with that statement.
And there’s a shitload of Americans who believe the moon landings were fake. Big fucking deal. [/quote]
True. But whether a people feel that have “national identity” or not, is a tad more subjective than whether Apollo 11 really landed on the moon. Don’t you think?
I can barely decipher the Russian alphabet.
More often than not, nationalism (in one form or another) is the driving force behind that.
We probably won’t reach a consensus here as I consider Human life to be sacred. So I don’t really give a shit what moves forward.
Ok. But I hope you’re not implying some kind of correlation-causation thing here. Not unless you justify it.
That should make for an interesting discussion. Feel free to jump in folks.
[quote]It begins with the Magna Carta, then follows to the French Revolution. It has to do with every European power racing to defeat Napoleon because of his ideas of Republicanism and how they might bring down their own monarchies.
And if you’ve got half a brain you’ll bitch about him declaring himself Emperor. Granted. But the movement and ideals were already there and already had started the greatest movement in the history of the world. [/quote]
I’m quite familiar with these facts.
You’ll have to spit out the point you’re trying to make. I have no idea how religion pertains to our discussion.
My take is that you’re OK with attacking Russians (or anyone who’s not British or French), then say that they lack all “national identity”, because they never contributed with something like Magna Carta or the French Revolution. But I hope I’m wrong.
You’re giving me too much credit.
[quote]As for America, well, suffice it to say that the Founding Fathers are probably rolling in their graves.
Well. I don’t necessarily disagree with that.
However, the Constitution, and the powerful ideas that holds, and has held for the past 220 years, will assure us that this country will never become the despotic terror that Russia always relies on.[/quote]
Hopefully.
But where you see a dark future for Russia, I see progress made. Yes, they suck and yes they have a long way to go. But it’s getting there.
[quote]What does Russia see? The massive Mongol influence, the massive French influence in the nineteenth century, the eleven time zones, the Czar, the Communists… they’ve never had a government that’s been elected. And when they did, they start sliding back under Putin’s thumb, or that of the Russian mob, which probably controls 90 percent of the wealth in that country.
They have never known freedom and peace. It a strange culture without a sense of itself, or its ideals.
I see. So it’s not just the “autocratic leader” you have a problem with. You’re actually attacking the culture as a whole.
No shit for brains, I think they’re interesting precisely because of this. It is not the people’s fault that this has happened, but because of the massive size and disconnect between it’s peoples that it has, they have not been able to assume a national identity as those of other countries have. [/quote]
That’s better.
But I have to ask again: Does any of that justify the perceivable hatred towards Russians that some members are displaying?
[quote]They went straight from Czarism, with its feudal system, to communism, which was a direct reaction to the system that had been in place previously. This all after several invasions over the past millenium that always left them under somebody else’s control.
Even arguably their greatest ruler, Peter the Great, shunned whatever Russian traditions there were in favor of modeling the country off of Western traditions that his country had no natural affinity to, thus further fucking them up.
You can read it in their literature, in Chekhov, Dostoyevsky, anyone else- depressing overtones, the ideals of freedom and right and wrong are disputed, hell, Crime and Punishment even directly cites Napoleon as an example of an uberman. Their greatest work of fiction is about the ideals of a Frenchman. Read Pushkin, who was educated in a French military school, and Eugene Onegin.
I know this is an indepth reply to a shitty retort, so I’m hoping maybe someone with a little more brains understands what I’m saying.[/quote]
I perfectly understand what you’re saying. I just don’t think you should be defending those using derogatory terms and other slur to refer to Russians. The way they want to be governed is their business, and theirs alone.
Note that I’d have a different discourse had I been talking to a Russian defending the need for an “uberman”.
[quote]Not at all. I am all for a democratic Russia- however, I believe what we now have is far from a democratic Russia. They have fallen under Putin, and the country goes as he does.
Not only that, but the influence of the Russian Mob really cannot be underestimated when talking anything about Russian politics now. You are a fool to believe those elections are fair in any way. [/quote]
I don’t know how fair they were, but I do know they allowed foreign observers in. Which is pretty good considering they’re new to the whole thing.
The people in power do their best to rig the elections. And that’s certainly the case in Russia as in many other countries. How much is the question. I still think the official figures reflected the general wishes of the people. It’s not like they had much choice either.
So, yes, Putin probably got away with a lot. But those are bugs in the system that need to be sorted out. Russia is a very young democracy, and for one of the largest countries on Earth, it’s not easy fixing them overnight.
That’s why they’re dangerous.
[quote]That seems to be the consensus in Washington. Everybody thinks that putting ballistic missiles in Poland the Czech Republic is a good idea. Even that phony presidential candidate people here keep painting as a dove.
But if you really believe in the things you’re writing here, I suggest you vote for McCain. The guy wants to throw Russia out of the G8.
I suggest you keep your opinions on who I should vote for to your fucking self.
The day I hold in any high regards the opinion of a crackpot internet warrior like yourself is the day I off myself.[/quote]
The irony here is that you don’t have much choice either.
And if you want people to consider your suggestion, I suggest you use civility. It helps.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
So fuckin what? Hitler wasn’t around forever, nor was Stalin or Idi Amin or any other dictator. However, they manage, in their short (or sometimes longer) reigns to fuck up many things. Your point is… well, a given, and pointless. [/quote]
Gotta love the argumentum ad Hitlerum.
Hitler wasn’t the problem. Nazism was.
Stalin wasn’t the problem. Bolshevism was.
Medvedev has excellent approval ratings. He is not preaching to exterminate anyone. Is not trying to control all aspects of Russian society. He can “fuck up” many things, but then again, so can everyone in a position of power. Russian economical growth is hovering around two-digits. And albeit a formidable societal gap, the situation is Russia is getting better.
Bitching about what he could potentially do is quite absurd.
[quote]I just wanted to talk about booze and strippers.
Less talking. More posting pictures.
Now I’m irritated. Find your own strippers. [/quote]
No offense, but I’ve grown out of that phase.
[quote]I’m not arguing with that. And a certain amount of nationalism isn’t a terrible thing. It has a purpose.
Everything has a purpose.
Smashing one’s head with a bat has a purpose. Raping kids has a purpose. Stealing has a purpose.
I think you missed the point which was about pots and kettles.
No, I didn’t miss the point. I was stating a fact. Comparing nationalism to raping children is fucked up and illogical.[/quote]
I view both of them as evils, but that wasn’t the point. Rather, it was about the absurdity of your argument. That something has a purpose doesn’t make it a good thing.
Ohhhh…you’re slow today. Didn’t get your ethanol fix yet?
I was talking about hypocrisy, not relativity.
True.
Yes.
How is that different from the message in the US? I mean, besides the fact that the US actually refreshes everybody’s mind by bombing people across the globe.
Russia has always been an oligarchy. How it could “fall backwards” into one doesn’t really make sense to me.
[quote]And Iran and China are still small potatoes compared with the threat that the USSR posed, and with the threat that Russia could pose in the future.
Agreed. Allow me to add that they’re all small potatoes compared to the threat the US poses.
No, you can’t just add that, because you’re changing the premise of your argument. [/quote]
Like Hell I can!
You’ve never heard of an addendum before?
To world peace. Most people on this planet agree that your country is a threat to peace.
[quote]Understood. But again, I’m not talking about what is happening right now, so much as the implications of what Russia could head towards.
So you’re going all Minority Report on us now?
Dick Cheney called. He wants his ideas back.
What in the fuck are you talking about? I don’t want the country to slide back into a Putin-led and Russian mob controlled dark age of dictatorship or communism. How that’s a terrible thing, I fail to see.[/quote]
It’s a terrible thing because you claim to know what is best for them. In another context, that’ll be quite alright, but on a thread where Cold War rhetoric is thrown out (and actual hatred towards Russian people), it can lead to ugly things.
Of course, you may not be advocating violence, coups or wars. In which case, I take everything I said back. But I think you should make it explicit seeing how the original question wasn’t directed at you.
[quote]Truth be told, Russia is interesting because of more than vodka and strippers. The country has no national identity, no sense of what their country should be or should stand for.
There are a shitload of Russians who would disagree with that statement.
And there’s a shitload of Americans who believe the moon landings were fake. Big fucking deal. [/quote]
True. But whether a people feel that have “national identity” or not, is a tad more subjective than whether Apollo 11 really landed on the moon. Don’t you think?
I can barely decipher the Russian alphabet.
More often than not, nationalism (in one form or another) is the driving force behind that.
We probably won’t reach a consensus here as I consider Human life to be sacred. So I don’t really give a shit what moves forward.
Ok. But I hope you’re not implying some kind of correlation-causation thing here. Not unless you justify it.
That should make for an interesting discussion. Feel free to jump in folks.
[quote]It begins with the Magna Carta, then follows to the French Revolution. It has to do with every European power racing to defeat Napoleon because of his ideas of Republicanism and how they might bring down their own monarchies.
And if you’ve got half a brain you’ll bitch about him declaring himself Emperor. Granted. But the movement and ideals were already there and already had started the greatest movement in the history of the world. [/quote]
I’m quite familiar with these facts.
You’ll have to spit out the point you’re trying to make. I have no idea how religion pertains to our discussion.
My take is that you’re OK with attacking Russians (or anyone who’s not British or French), then say that they lack all “national identity”, because they never contributed with something like Magna Carta or the French Revolution. But I hope I’m wrong.
You’re giving me too much credit.
[quote]As for America, well, suffice it to say that the Founding Fathers are probably rolling in their graves.
Well. I don’t necessarily disagree with that.
However, the Constitution, and the powerful ideas that holds, and has held for the past 220 years, will assure us that this country will never become the despotic terror that Russia always relies on.[/quote]
Hopefully.
But where you see a dark future for Russia, I see progress made. Yes, they suck and yes they have a long way to go. But it’s getting there.
[quote]What does Russia see? The massive Mongol influence, the massive French influence in the nineteenth century, the eleven time zones, the Czar, the Communists… they’ve never had a government that’s been elected. And when they did, they start sliding back under Putin’s thumb, or that of the Russian mob, which probably controls 90 percent of the wealth in that country.
They have never known freedom and peace. It a strange culture without a sense of itself, or its ideals.
I see. So it’s not just the “autocratic leader” you have a problem with. You’re actually attacking the culture as a whole.
No shit for brains, I think they’re interesting precisely because of this. It is not the people’s fault that this has happened, but because of the massive size and disconnect between it’s peoples that it has, they have not been able to assume a national identity as those of other countries have. [/quote]
That’s better.
But I have to ask again: Does any of that justify the perceivable hatred towards Russians that some members are displaying?
[quote]They went straight from Czarism, with its feudal system, to communism, which was a direct reaction to the system that had been in place previously. This all after several invasions over the past millenium that always left them under somebody else’s control.
Even arguably their greatest ruler, Peter the Great, shunned whatever Russian traditions there were in favor of modeling the country off of Western traditions that his country had no natural affinity to, thus further fucking them up.
You can read it in their literature, in Chekhov, Dostoyevsky, anyone else- depressing overtones, the ideals of freedom and right and wrong are disputed, hell, Crime and Punishment even directly cites Napoleon as an example of an uberman. Their greatest work of fiction is about the ideals of a Frenchman. Read Pushkin, who was educated in a French military school, and Eugene Onegin.
I know this is an indepth reply to a shitty retort, so I’m hoping maybe someone with a little more brains understands what I’m saying.[/quote]
I perfectly understand what you’re saying. I just don’t think you should be defending those using derogatory terms and other slur to refer to Russians. The way they want to be governed is their business, and theirs alone.
Note that I’d have a different discourse had I been talking to a Russian defending the need for an “uberman”.
[quote]Not at all. I am all for a democratic Russia- however, I believe what we now have is far from a democratic Russia. They have fallen under Putin, and the country goes as he does.
Not only that, but the influence of the Russian Mob really cannot be underestimated when talking anything about Russian politics now. You are a fool to believe those elections are fair in any way. [/quote]
I don’t know how fair they were, but I do know they allowed foreign observers in. Which is pretty good considering they’re new to the whole thing.
The people in power do their best to rig the elections. And that’s certainly the case in Russia as in many other countries. How much is the question. I still think the official figures reflected the general wishes of the people. It’s not like they had much choice either.
So, yes, Putin probably got away with a lot. But those are bugs in the system that need to be sorted out. Russia is a very young democracy, and for one of the largest countries on Earth, it’s not easy fixing them overnight.
That’s why they’re dangerous.
[quote]That seems to be the consensus in Washington. Everybody thinks that putting ballistic missiles in Poland the Czech Republic is a good idea. Even that phony presidential candidate people here keep painting as a dove.
But if you really believe in the things you’re writing here, I suggest you vote for McCain. The guy wants to throw Russia out of the G8.
I suggest you keep your opinions on who I should vote for to your fucking self.
The day I hold in any high regards the opinion of a crackpot internet warrior like yourself is the day I off myself.[/quote]
The irony here is that you don’t have much choice either.
And if you want people to consider your suggestion, I suggest you use civility. It helps.
Medvedev has excellent approval ratings. He is not preaching to exterminate anyone. Is not trying to control all aspects of Russian society. He can “fuck up” many things, but then again, so can everyone in a position of power. Russian economical growth is hovering around two-digits. And albeit a formidable societal gap, the situation is Russia is getting better.
Bitching about what he could potentially do is quite absurd.
[/quote]
No, it’s not. There is no Nazism without Hitler. Communism may falter and fall apart without Stalin. There is a point where the leader becomes inseperable with the philosophy.
And maybe if some motherfucker thought about what dictators can potentially do, then they’d keep a tighter handle on them, ala the UN responding IMMEDIATELY when Hussein invaded Kuwait.
Obviously not- your the one who wants the pictures. Get off your arrogant high horse.
Instead of saying something stupidly obvious, you could actually argue the point of nationalism being a good or bad thing instead of trying to change the subject with snide remarks about raping kids.
I say a certain amount is a good thing. You replied that raping children has a purpose (and you never explained that, either). Talk about answering a statement with another completely unrelated statement.
You weren’t talking hypocrisy! You create straw man arguments and go off into left field! You don’t even relate to the topic being discussed! And you’re not fucking witty, your one liners are failing miserably you cunt.
I don’t disagree. We don’t have a leg to stand on because of Bush’s “doctrine” of bombing first and asking questions later. They’re just following our example. But our example is wrong, and therefore theirs is too.
The question is not whether it’s different, it’s whether it’s right. But I know you won’t answer that either, you’ll just make some witty comment about… oh, who knows, smog emissions or some shit, and then change the subject.
Fair enough. But not finding your way out of the woods in the first place might say even more.
No. Again, you’re just changing the premise because you can’t argue the points. You’re crappy at this.
That’s a ridiculous generalization that you have absolutely no grounds to make.
What survey are you quoting here, that polled 1 out of every 3 people in the world? What’s the margin of error? Your full of shit.
I’m not advocating violence right now. If Russia continued to attack more countries, I would.
I figured you’d be someone who thought we never landed.
And that depends on the mind you’re going into. History shows both of them to be true. That doesn’t mean that people like you won’t deny that.
Oh wow, another zinger. Do you go on right before Dane Cook? You should.
Without empires, many advances would not have taken place, just like how monetary incentives to pharmeceutical companies (hat you no doubt hate because of their lobbies) ends up curing people of diseases. There’s good and bad to everything.
And don’t give me that line of bullshit- I’ve read your posts. “human life is sacred” my ass. Sometimes you have to fight, and sometimes you have to kill. Take your flower power bullshit back to the dustbin, that’s not how the world works.
Just an observation. This is how history has gone.
You’re a motherfucking moron. IF that’s what your ass took away, then I’m done. You argue like a buffoon… you’re like the cunty commie version of HH.
No, they’re not “making progress.” The country is controlled by the Russian Mob, the former KGB, and Putin. I don’t see how that’s “progress”.
These things are gauranteed to lead to a wider disparity between rich and poor, as they always do, further corruption, and further incompetence. They are sliding, not rising.
Who the fuck are you to tell me that’s better? I had to spell out to you what was a crystal clear point, and I get, “That’s better?”
Do I get a fucking biscuit too?
Not for me to answer. That’s for them.
I didn’t. But it’s not their just their business. They are some shitty little country in Central America- they are a former superpower with tons of nuclear weapons and massive potential for good or evil.
It’s in our best interests to watch them closely.
And yours.
Just bugs, huh? well, if that’s all you see, then I can’t help you.
[quote]
The irony here is that you don’t have much choice either.
And if you want people to consider your suggestion, I suggest you use civility. It helps.[/quote]
[quote]Sloth wrote:
As long as we stay out of it.[/quote]
which I honestly do not think is possible.
every war in recent history that was technicaly “none of our bussiness” we seemed to get ourselves involved in
also after speaking with older family members that has lived through the second world war,all this looks very familar to them,they all seemed to agree that only the time and the names are different.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
No, it’s not. There is no Nazism without Hitler. Communism may falter and fall apart without Stalin. There is a point where the leader becomes inseperable with the philosophy.
And maybe if some motherfucker thought about what dictators can potentially do, then they’d keep a tighter handle on them, ala the UN responding IMMEDIATELY when Hussein invaded Kuwait.
I’m not advocating violence right now. If Russia continued to attack more countries, I would.
[/quote]
Communism didnt fall after the death of Stalin. And Russia did not attack Georgia. Georgia attacked South Ossetia, and Russian peacekeepers. Russia only retaliated after its citizens and soldiers were being killed by Georgian military.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
etaco wrote:
Georgia has been trying to draw us into their conflict with the Russians for years. They may be figuring that this is their last best chance to do so before a new administration comes in that is less likely to stick its neck out for them.
Russia has been trying to draw Georgia into a conflict for years. They are systematically packing Ossatia with Russian to gain support for the region to become a part of Russia, not to be independant as Ossatians have been wanting. If you think Russia isn’t funding insurgencies against Georgia you are kidding your self.
Russia is wants Georgia, Ukraine, and other surrounding territories. They know western EU won’t do a think about it as they are dependant on Russia for oil and natural gas.
Those that think Russia is innocent in all of this and they don’t have expansionary dreams is delusional. They are flush with oil and natural gas money and are using it, along with diversions of money from other markets to rebuild there ancient military.
…[/quote]
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
dhickey wrote:
etaco wrote:
Georgia has been trying to draw us into their conflict with the Russians for years. They may be figuring that this is their last best chance to do so before a new administration comes in that is less likely to stick its neck out for them.
Russia has been trying to draw Georgia into a conflict for years. They are systematically packing Ossatia with Russian to gain support for the region to become a part of Russia, not to be independant as Ossatians have been wanting. If you think Russia isn’t funding insurgencies against Georgia you are kidding your self.
Russia is wants Georgia, Ukraine, and other surrounding territories. They know western EU won’t do a think about it as they are dependant on Russia for oil and natural gas.
Those that think Russia is innocent in all of this and they don’t have expansionary dreams is delusional. They are flush with oil and natural gas money and are using it, along with diversions of money from other markets to rebuild there ancient military.
…
[quote]typerr wrote:
But the American reasons for attacking Albanians were somewhat more noble? Stopping ethnic cleansing that wasnt even happening? Bombing an independent country and carving it up? Cut the bullshit, the United States or any other country has no right to say anything in regards to Russian actions in Georgia.
[/quote]
Oh yeah…two wrongs make a right. I don’t think anyone on the thread order the attack on Albanians so I don’t get your point.
Communism didnt fall after the death of Stalin. And Russia did not attack Georgia. Georgia attacked South Ossetia, and Russian peacekeepers. Russia only retaliated after its citizens and soldiers were being killed by Georgian military. [/quote]
Please. Russia set the bait and some dipshit took it. That’s all that happened here.