George W Bush Is A War Criminal

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
161

[quote]Vegita wrote:
“And even though you remind me of a Texan Archie Bunker, hothead, sean hannity, I do have respect for the tough son of a bitch you are!”

I’m assuming that you do not consider me a tough son of a bitch or respect my views? … It’s ok brother elk, I’d still bail your ass out of a jam anytime if you really needed it. Guess thats just me though. Sure I can get a little sarcastic and my toone can grow quite heated at times. Does that reduce the validity of my views?

*** this just in… the New England Patriots have re-positioned Tom Brady to play linebacker. In a strange turn of events, Tom brady was attempting to motivate some of the defensive members of his team telling them they don’t seem to be playing with fire and determination. Since the New GM brother Elk has taken control of the team and heard this outrage he told brady he would be playing linebacker for the rest of the season. When asked of the move by reporters brother elk commented that he runs a team based soley on idealistic morals and has little use for logic or common sense. “so what if brady isn’t built to be a linebacker, if he thinks he knows more about how a linebacker should play than let him show everyone”

In other news corey dillon has been demoted to water boy due to his age, he will be replaced by the untested rookie running back who is only 20 years old. “We can’t have these old guys running around risking injury when we could have a much younger guy in there doing all the work. Besides, the younger guy should be faster and stronger… he is younger right? it all makes sense”

Disclaimer, none of the above quotes are real, this was a fictional satire, consider it a political cartoon. Tom brady and corey dillon will likely be starting at thier respective positions on sunday. [/quote]

You’re one to talk about logic and common sense! Veg, to be totally honest, I think you are either high ninety percent of the time or suffered a serious head wound! And as far as being in combat, I do think you should be excluded! You would probably get some one if not many killed.

As far as rainman goes, I honestly like him… There is something endearing about his hard edge and though I disagree with him you know he aint no bullshitter! The kind of guy you would want in your corner in a tough situation!

Thanks for the thought of you bailing me out of a jam. Though, I don’t think that will arise in our lifetimes! Also, nice little story, but couldn’t you have put me in a Bronco’s scenerio!

162

elk,

I’ll ask you again, are Law Enforcement Officers cowards?

How about Law Enforcement Officers that have dodged bullets/broken up drug rings and are not on the front line in Iraq?

How about Law Enforcement Officers who have dodged bullets/broken up drug rings/knocked out recalcitrant punks/are not on the front line in Iraq and vocally support the War in Iraq?

Do I have to ask you three times for everything?

JeffR

163

jeffy, whats it gonna be next? Are cops who know judo, who watched the ‘Green Berets’ with John Wayne, who read Soldier of Fortune magazines, cowards? Cool it already! You are using a right wing tactic of arguing ridiciulous points to nauseum!

Jeff, I will finish with this… You are a hero and your work on the forum is a vital part of the war on terror! There will be a place for you beside Georgy on the Freedom Memorial! Are you happy now?

164

[quote]vroom wrote:
Bah, Elk isn’t completely wrong, even if he isn’t completely right. Cheerleaders need to stop thinking they are so goddamned special that simply living their lives is a “contribution” in some way.
[/quote]

Vroom - I’ll be happy to cede this point to you under one condition: That the left-wing peace protesters, and ABB crowd that is so anti-war and anti-administration will stop wrapping themselves in the flag and calling themselves ‘patriots’ because they protest.

It seems to me that those on the other side of this issue(the wrong side, of course) from me want to give those that are against this war/president a pass. They don’t have to stand up and prove themselves at all - they are patriotic for just being against the war. Yet in the same breath those on the other side are requiring supporters of the war to prove themselves based on standards that the peacniks would never have to be held to.

165

This thread is truly funny. You guys are close to being marketable.

Carry on.

166

Rainjack,

Well, unfortunately I can’t do much about what those folks will or won’t do.

However, I will point out that I’m not sure there is a valid connection between arguments concerning belief and contribution vs dissent and patriotism.

We’re arguing about beliefs here aren’t we?

Whether or not you are patriotic doesn’t hinge on what you believe. What actions you take hinge upon what you believe and how strongly you believe it.

Those protesting as you describe may or may not be patriots, right?

167

[quote]vroom wrote:
Those protesting as you describe may or may not be patriots, right?[/quote]

During the run up to the Iraq War and, to a lesser extent now, you have folks out there saying that dissent is patriotic. I’m not discounting that view at all, but many of those same folks are saying that unless you are willing to pick up arms and join the fight, you are little more than an armchair patriot.

My point being, that there seems to be more required of those who support the war “from the comfort of their own homes” than there is of those out protesting.

I’m sure that the term ‘patriotic’ is being stretched on both sides to justify one belief or another.

168

vroom,
not to get too personal,but…Underneath your name it says your from Ontario Canada. Now, I know that the American econ. is interrelated to the Canadian economy,but what is your sizeable contribution? Aside from mental masturbation,I can’t understand your fasination with American politics either. What’s up with all of this?

169

Jeff, I will finish with this… You are a hero and your work on the forum is a vital part of the war on terror! There will be a place for you beside Georgy on the Freedom Memorial! Are you happy now?[/quote]

bauhahaaaa!!

170

[quote]BigRJ wrote:
America has courage…we just need more courage as a whole so we can turn the middle east into a parking lot… :slight_smile:

Semper FI !!!
F*ck Michael Moore[/quote]

I am… right now…LMAO…BigRJ I love you! Will you marry me?..

Flanker is a perfect example of Liberalism at its finest…They all just stand around bitching about things…while they watch others make the tough decisions, and take action. They stand for nothing, believe in nothing, and certainly seem loath to make any personal sacrifice to secure the “peace” that they “say” is so important to them. Demonstrations, “love in’s” and “lip service” do not=peace. Peace is a product of discipline, principle, and a commitment to keeping that peace. Unfortunately, “keeping the peace” means dealing with those that wish to disturb it effectively…and war, though ugly, is a way to do that. Being conscious and responsible in a society means that you may have to fight in order to make a stand for the principles and ideals that you believe in; as well as to protect those that depend on you…but what Liberal would understand that? It’s just not PC…
GWB, whatever his flaws or failings may be, is a man that is certain about what he believes in, and takes his duty as Commander-in Chief seriously. His strength and passion for America and Americans are admirable. Above all, he possesses the strength and conviction to make decisions that intend to protect all Americans…even the Liberal naysayers. What Liberals fail to understand is that the “rights” and “freedoms” that they so flagrantly flaunt as “given”, were paid for with the blood of American men an women. They are so quick to disrespect that…
AND…just for the record…
MICHAEL MOORE IS A FAT, RETARDED, JACK-A**

171

[quote]Flanker wrote:
BigRJ wrote:
America has courage…we just need more courage as a whole so we can turn the middle east into a parking lot… :slight_smile:

Semper FI !!!
F*ck Michael Moore

This is exactly the kind of facist mentality that makes the rest of the world hate America so much. Frankly, who can blame them.[/quote]

then, flanker, get the F*** out! Go to France or something…

172

[quote]rangertab75 wrote:
Flanker -

Know this; In war, ALL PARTICIPANTS ARE CRIMINALS. You probably have never been there, and I hope to God you never have to go. War is an ugly thing no matter how you look at it, and believe it or not, in war everyone loses. One side just ends up losing more than the other. Just because GWB declared war doesn’t make him a war criminal, he is acting in the best interests of this country. If declaring war makes him a war criminal, then fuck it. I want a war criminal as my president then. RLTW

rangertab75[/quote]

Amen!

173

ELK?.. don’t even ay you are a Broncos fan!!! WTF I cannot have the same favorite team as a pinko commie bastard!!! WTF.

J/K

yea I am die hard broncos all the way brother, so maybe the reterded thing isn’t true after all then right? Shanahan needs to get the hell out and plummer needs to learn when NOT to throw the ball.

174

Elk- I will do nothing of the sort. That is your opinion about how things ought to be and that’s that. It has consistency.

Now about what is- if one is to go down to the recruiter and apply for Rambo-type duty and either turned away from the military alltogether or put in a non-combat situation, I don’t think that there is any shame in that.

I think that you ought to phrase your question differently. Given what we could have reasonably assumed at the time, were you in favor of risking death and injuries of various severity of an unknown number of mostly young men in a type of conflict that the United States has never fought before and has very little clue about how it will turn out? Would you have taken similar risks as those young men in their shoes? If not, justify.

Or at present, do you think the war is worth the price we are paying, and would you be willing to pay that price?

Personally, I was so-so about the whole thing, but I feel that once committed we should kick the absolute living shit out of those insurgents. To leave without causing them serious pain at this point is to invite more trouble down the road. I’m fourty, so I don’t think that I could join the party. I do have sort of a fantasy about capturing one of those bastards, and telling him that because I live in a capitalist society where I can consume vast amounts of cheap, high-quality protein and have tons of leisure time in which I can lift weights, I am going to kill him with my bare hands, and right before he dies dip him in some bacon fat, and there is nothing Allah or his clan or the Baath Party can do about it because as I am proving on a one to one basis, the American is superior. Demented and Walter Mittyish of course, but to me it gets to the heart of the situation.

On the left, everyone talks about sacrifice, and they have a good point. But I say look in the right direction for sacrifice. Give me a red pen and a copy of the Federal Budget and I’ll get much more than enough sacrifice from idiots, useless (and newly unemployed bureaucrats), freeloaders, freespenders, logrollers, etc. Hell, I’ll make ground pounding the highest paid position in the Federal Government. It won’t be a question of enough, it will be a question of who gets how rich.

Hope that helps, or at least amuses.

Rangertab 75- I love you man- in a T-man, beer commercial sort of way.

A random thought- assuming that most peace protesters have lived fat and happy here in the US of A and don’t know the horrors of a brutal dictatorship versus the horrors of war, are they moral qualified to offer an opinion on the matter?. Shouldn’t they just shut the F up as much as the cheerleaders if they don’t have personal experience on the difference between Abu Grab under Iraqi vs. American management and weren’t willing to lift a finger against the former? Inquiring minds want to know.

175

f’er,

I hate to bore folks with an answer they’ve heard before, but not only did I live and work in the states for something approaching a decade, I’m a computer consultant… connect the dots.

So, yes, I’m in ontario right now. Probably for a few more years at least, but who can say.

176

Brother Elk wrote:

“Jeff, I will finish with this… You are a hero”

I’m using the liberal tactic of leaving out the rest of your sarcasm and only presenting only what I want to see.

Just to clear things up a bit, I’m not a hero.

However, I am certainly no coward.

I wanted to make sure that your garbage about front line soldiers being the only people with courage is repudiated.

I know your sarcastic answer was as close to a “Yes, Jeff, you are right” as I’m likely to get.

I’ll take the win.

Back to our regular programming.

JeffR

177

gt

Depleted Uranium projectiles are Anti-Tank Rounds. That’s it. They are too expensive to shoot at buildings and or lightly armored vehicles. Additioanlly the M1 does not carry a lot in it’s magazine unless it is preparing for an armor on armor battle.

The A-10 shoots them all over the place. Again it is an anti-armor round. In GW-1 they were loaded up with them. In GW2 I can’t imagine the Air Force spending the money for them if an HE round will do. Couple of hundred hitting your SUV will do the same damage.

Since Armor on Armor battles are fought on a plain or piece or real estate that allows manuever the chances of the dust affecting a civilian are slim to none. For the enemy breathing the dust of a DU shell is the least of his worries, particularly if it was fired at him.

178

Veg, no, no, tell me it’s not true, the vegsters a Bronco fan! Well there’s one redeeming quality in ya! (J/K)

Schrauper, what I have done is try to make a point and there are a few who can see it and many who are obviously leaning to the right who don’t! As far as war goes and I mean any war, it’s usually the ones who are not fighting that have more of a gung ho attitude. Are our the ones who start the wars!

The parallels to Vietnam are becoming more and more clear. As more people start losing sons and daughters and the sacrifice affects more people this country’s attitude will change. It’s already starting to happen.

I do agree that once you’re in it you got to fight to win it, but what if you have an enemy that will fight for years and death toll means nothing. Remember the Vietnamese they have fought for centuries in their history, but in their last conflict they fought from 1945 to 1975 without any thought about not fighting for thirty or three hundred more years.

I thought we learned our lesson about imposing our beliefs on others! If people want to do it let them use their sons and daughters. Wouldn’t it be cool to see a platoon comprised of Dick Cheney, the Bush twins, Sean Hannity and Dildo Rielly, Jeffy R, and a few others on this forum patrolling the streets of Falluja. I would pay a large sum of money to see that! Any way its just my two cents and hopefully I won’t be compelled to respond to this thread again to mine and others satisfaction!

179

I would note that the better comparison may be to the Japanese. Much more “religiously fanatic” similar fantasy idealogy. The Japanese had a much stronger economic base and the support of the majority of the population to boot.

The Vietanm war was fought, on a broader political arena ,in my opinion. The North would have been defeated in a matter of months if China and the USSR did not support them with financial and military resources. They did not manufacture those AK’s, MIGS and Sam’s. They were given to them by their patrons.

The Iraqi’s are using left over weapons from the previous regime. They have some current French weapons that were supplied during the embargo but nothing real current. The chances of resupply or a massive counter-attack by the patron nation do not exist.

The recruits that the Islamofacists send in are being ground up. Yes we take casualties, and that sucks, but they cannot sustain the battle. We can. It’s what a nation state does. Thank God it is us with the advantage.

The “Strong Words” posted today from General McCauliffe during Bastogne ring as true today as they did 60 yrs. ago.

Freedom isn’t free and unfortunately young men still pay the butcher’s bill. It is their sacrafice that allows the rest of us to be free.

Getting back to the post. Bush isn’t a war criminal. He is a man thrown into a situation and he is doing the best he can. Hopefully any one of us would do the best they can if we were stuck in such a situation.

180

Hedo,

The reason some folks aren’t overly thrilled about being in Iraq is that they believe we are paying a price for freedom when we don’t need to. Even if at the same time we know we have to keep working now that we are there.

Yes, opinions differ. There is no way for either side to prove it is right either. Maybe we are safer because of the conflict. Maybe we aren’t. In either case, we’ve probably shifted potential casualties to those in the military.

Just striving for understanding of the viewpoints of both sides… not criticising your view.