It shifts when they use it as a justification for when he died. They don’t have to prove it just that it was likely. OJ’s lawyers didn’t have the burden of proof they did have to convince the jury it was questionable.
So if prosecuters prove Chauvin used unnecessary force that would have been lethal, do they have to also prove Chauvin’s use of unnecessary lethal force killed Floyd before the opiates could have? Or does the defense then have to prove that opiates killed Floyd before Chauvin’s actions did?
I don’t know the answer to that.
I don’t know. It comes down to the jury IMO. On this one a hung jury wouldn’t surprise me.
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So…why would you think 3rd degree murder is the correct charge?
I didn’t say it was the correct charge.
It is a charge that gives the jury another option to consider.
Oftentimes juries either acquit, find guilty or become deadlocked because their options are limited in terms of overall charges.
This was a piece of trash violent felon so who knows what he was thinking.
In this case it would mean the charge they can more easily prove instead of a charge for what he actually did but might be harder to prove.
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Had to read that about 3 times, Brother…but correct!
By the way…I didn’t mean to suggest that the Judge put 3rd Degree murder in just to give the Jury more options.
The decision was based on Legal Precedent.
To convict on a murder charge? I’d have been shocked if they didn’t. Causation is going to be a key plank of the defence case here.
The prosecution is going to have to prove the actions led to the death in order to convict on any murder charge here.
Edit: the defence is going to aim for reasonable doubt as to the cause of death. If the actions of Chauvin can’t be proven to have, beyond a reasonable doubt, have led to the death of GF, then those charges have to be rejected IMO.
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I misunderstood, then. I noticed you wrote that Chauvin will not be charged with 2nd degree murder “of”(I assume “or”) even manslaughter. He’s already been charged with both.
My bad. Long day.
He is charged with Second and Third degree murder and manslaughter.
I’m interested to see how these go. Murder in the first degree was never going to work. If the defence can stick the landing on causation, then they could all be thrown out.
This is going to be a total mess if so.
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I wonder if it will be a case where the prosecution will appeal to emotion and the defense to facts. Thew defense can mention drugs, behavior, the fact Floyd was a big guy, procedure, training… the prosecution will just say, “look at the video.”
Regardless of objective truth, this is a lever a prosecution team dreams of having. It’s just incredibly powerful.
The video’s length helps the emotional impact. And then, to hear him go from saying he can’t breathe to calling for his mother. I can’t imagine being Chauvin and having to sit there while a jury watches that video.
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I am not sure it is enough to be dismissed. I think this one will go to jury. I think the defense will try to show that it can’t be proved that Chauvin was the cause of death as you said as well.
I have heard on the radio a few of the interviews with jury members, and a few of them struck me as rather intelligent. One was a chemist that said he wanted to see where the facts led. He just struck me as an analytical thinker with his responses.
I think if some of the jury will only convict on the condition that reasonable doubt isn’t present, then I think it will be hung or acquittal.
I think it is reasonable to believe that there was a slight chance that opioids killed GF. If that is the case, one can’t vote to convict.
Precisely. If there is reasonable doubt as to the cause of death, the prosecution’s case for murder falls apart.
There are other charges that aren’t contingent on this, but the key ones will require the prosecutors do some heavy lifting.
Edit: To be clear, I wasn’t saying ‘dismissed’ as if the judge would throw it out. I meant it as a jury finding.
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20 or 30 seconds after he was removed from the vehicle as he requested.
Neither can I. I would be filled with dread because of my knowledge that half of that jury is likely even dumber than the average person.