It can explain why he was disobeying the cops. He made a choice between compliance and disobedience. I get that you just can’t shoot someone for disobeying an order (which is not why he was shot) but everyone wants to ignore the fact that these situations exist because of the actions of criminals. It’s always the cops hunting down innocent young black men for no reason but race. It’s telling black people that they are mentally weak and can’t control their behavior so it’s always the other person who is to blame. It’s telling cops to not expect black people to react with common sense and stay in control of their emotions.
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As we have discussed, and agreed before, its not black people. Its all people from low socioeconomic backgrounds making bad decisions daily. Its just that a higher percentage of black folks in america are from that low socioeconomic background.
What sort of things do people typically grab when two cops have guns pointed at them? I’m not a cop, I don’t know what their training or rules of engagement or whatever states that they should do in a situation like that, but it doesn’t surprise me that they shot him.
I don’t think that his reason for not complying makes much difference.
We need more details before we can conclude anything. The main difference of opinion here seems to be that @Californiagrown thinks the shooting was only justified if he was reaching for a weapon, while on the other hand the possibility that he was could be considered justification. On top of that, the cops were supposedly telling him to put down a knife, if he had a knife in his hand or pocket or the cops had reason to believe that he did and he was getting into a car full of kids then that would be another possible justification.
And also commit violent crime at a higher rate.
If he was going into the car full of kids with a knife then I might lean towards it being a good shoot. Barring that, I don’t think it was. I think he was a piece of trash criminal who set into motion the events that led to his shooting but the cop panicked. With that said, what else could the cops have done. If they had tazed him while walking away, then they tazed a guy for just walking away. If they clubbed him, it would have been clubbing someone for walking away. If they tackled him, it would have been tackling someone for walking away. If it were me, I would not have shot him at the point the cop shot him but grabbed him to take him down. But I have years of training, and even have trained cops in dealing with physical encounters unarmed. Everyone wants cops who are Navy SEALs with MMA fighter skills and social worker brains but that won’t be happening. Besides, if cops have better hand to hand skills it might reduce the number of shootings but will increase the number of beatings.
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Exactly what I have been saying. Quite likely that was the best move they could have made at that moment, after allowing the situation to get to that point.
They should have done that before he opened the car door. At that moment it depends on various factors which we don’t know about yet, did they already try to take him down and fail?
They don’t have tanks stupid. They have armored cars. Here is the armored car my cousin, a police officer took cover behind during recent riots in his city. A gun man or gun men were taking shots at the officers and hiding in the crowd. Note the bullet impacts
in the windshield.
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I had originally typed armored vehicle, but knew someone would have to prove that their boots were double knotted.
Call it whatever you want to in order to justify it to yourself, but having lived in the both the North and South Hills of Pittsburgh, the last thing these affluent suburbs need is toys like this.
They are navigating opiod problems, not a maze of IEDs.
But whatever. I enjoy reading this forum, but will go back to doing just that. Also, second everything @Californiagrown is posting.
I’m just absolutely sick of the continued militarization of the police.
The buzzword militarization is only worthy of suspicion and contempt, because it is used to describe safety equipment, like riot helmets, bullet proof vests, practical uniforms, like BDU pants and precision tools like the AR-15 carbine, as scary therefore politically incorrect. It doesn’t matter their purpose or effectiveness, the only thing that matters is how it makes you feel.
I’ve said it once already on this forum, but I’ll repeat it, if a mass shooter was in your child’s school you would want a highly skilled, highly motivated officer with a modern precision rifle with lasers and optics and 30 round magazines to solve the problem. You wouldn’t want neighborhood officer friendly to show up with his six shot wheel gun.
For some reason, every fucking knownothing in this country thinks they can tell police officers how to do their job, and what they can do it with. No one tries to tells firefighters that they need to drive smaller quieter trucks, or that they need to stop wearing those airmasks into burning buildings because they look scary. But at the rate we are racing towards idiocracy I’ll probably have to deal with that before the end of my career.
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Yeah I’m not on board with this focus that the police are too militarized. Are there some departments spending more than they need to? Maybe. But the fact is the police have been put in positions where they’ve been outgunned and it’s their responsibility to make sure that doesn’t happen.
Anybody remember these guys in North Hollywood? The North Hollywood shootout, 20 years later - YouTube
Two guys in body armor had lots of police armed mostly with pistols ducking for cover while they peppered them with AK-47’s.
Then there’s the video NickViar posted earlier about an officer who was outgunned getting murdered.
No thanks. I’ll take a police force who can respond to most threats they are likely to encounter and in this country that’s going to include some heavy arms at times.
Posted it more to show an officer waiting to see what someone pulled out.
Yeah, I figured that was your intent, but he was also at a disadvantage once the shooting started I think. Didn’t the officer actually hit the guy but he didn’t go down?
I think that the problem is it is national AND that there looks to be a level of police influence on having a suspect dosed–which shouldn’t happen.
I think that when you have the national body of anaesthesiologists telling people there’s a problem, there’s a problem.
To be clear, I’m not against the paramedics using ketamine. What I AM against is having the police exert influence on a medical decision.
I understand your dislike of the reporting, especially with your job. I didn’t get that vibe as much but it’s probably because I’ve been inundated and just kinda turned down the volume in my mind to focus on the facts.
Your bias is showing. Factual would be “a black man was shot X times in the torso.” Words like “merciless” are absolutely inflammatory. They are designed specifically to elicit an emotional response in the audience. That was absolutely rhetoric. A political speech, and it’s bullshit.
Shootings and deaths are 100% tragic, but that’s grandstanding and playing for a certain crowd.
In the land of ARs and high capacity mags? Good freaking luck. With authority figures (PD, feds, etc) there would be a lot of standing down. But if mobs of douchebags started terrorizing neighborhoods in red states that AREN’T downtown or ghetto? I don’t see them “enforcing” anything. That’s a fail.
Which is exactly why Marxist revolutions don’t successfully operate that way - they co-opt the state’s apparatus. If they don’t have the veneer of the “law” they’re asking for trouble.
Yes, it’s happened before. It’s bullshit, but it has happened before. Specifically that exact scenario of reaching for license. Philando was already mentioned, but again there have been other cases. Nobody deserves getting it for reaching for license and regs.
To me this is a big reason why things like qualified immunity need to be seriously rethought or reworked. Police should 100% get benefit of the doubt in numerous situations, but there are a LOT of holes that they can also jump through.
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No, if the gun is visible and you see him reaching. Your statement confirms there’s a gun present and that is a clear danger.
If the gun is not visible, he’s compliant, and he tells you he’s reaching for his license, then it’s murder. I’m with you on that.
Again, criminals be dumb.
Yeah, I agree. Those aren’t for the suburbs. When the Floyd riots first broke out we had an officer here who had to use that vehicle as a barrier to get 4-5 other cops out of an alley that people were shooting into.
Those are riot vehicles, and as long as they are ONLY used in riots I don’t have a problem with them. That’s their purpose.
So what do you think is the plan here then? Is it just a bunch of idiots causing shit or is there something more to it?
I honestly don’t know. Loppar has pointed out the strategic value of intentional failure (to create martyrs and converts) in past revolutions. My instinct is much more on idiots causing shit at this point. It looks like it’s too disorganized.
That’s not to say we should wait and let it get organize mind you.
The fact that so many politicians support BLM and antifa gives me the impression that they are part of a larger scheme. The mainstream left these days is becoming more and more extreme, and the fact that it is BLM who started calling for police to be defunded and more than a few politicians are now supporting that makes it look like they are all in it together.
Shooting like this latest one only serve to benefit BLM, if cops could make less mistakes then BLM would become irrelevant.
Yes. That would be the goal of everyone.
I don’t think that’s BLM’s goal though, and certainly not antifa. They want police defunded if not abolished and have radical Marxist goals to transform society. They thrive on stuff like this, they need it to keep them going.
In other news, looks like they did taser the guy for real:
In a statement announcing the family had retained him, Crump said Jacob Blake was trying to "deescalate a domestic incident when police drew their weapons and tasered him.
If they already used their most powerful non-lethal option and it didn’t work then what next? This is a messy situation and it’s one for experts and lawyers to sort out. Maybe he was high on meth or crack.