Regardless of race or culture you’ll get the same end result when poor single mothers raise a generation of dumb sociopaths.
Gopniks in Russia are a good example.
Before I start defending myself…wow, I haven’t had a real conversation about politics in a long time before this. Here goes nothing.
Until being pressed about the issue by the reporter questioning him, he made zero mention of the killer. Before commenting on the murder, he lumped the murderer in with the rest of the Neo-Nazis he defended.
But you’ve already called me out regarding my choice of word usage, so I’m not surprised that you’re deliberately misinterpreting what I’m trying to say.
The problem lies in Trump’s refusal to directly acknowledge that the murderer was a white supremacist with the sole intent of stoking racially motivated terror.
He also retweeted Candace Owens’ tone-deaf and completely inane statement on George Floyd’s murder.
“The fact that (Floyd) has been held up as a martyr sickens me.”
He lacks the ability to empathize with groups of people who are dissimilar to the middle-class or wealthy elites. It’s not that Trump is acting racist or anything, he’s just not acknowledging the true narrative here. Systemic change is needed or we’re all going to suffer as crime rates go up and the economy collapses.
So the narrative is that people are all given a chance to succeed no matter how shitty that chance is. Half of these schools in the ghetto are drug havens and the other half keeps the bad students in charge. They roam the hallways and intimidate other kids who actually want to learn, so going to school is really counterproductive in an environment that can’t support education. I don’t know if you’re saying that everyone is given an equal shot at becoming a successful person, but I disagree with the idea that people trying to feed their families can readily get these jobs in low-income neighborhoods.
When can we acknowledge that the environment people are raised within is the overwhelming issue here?
Also, there is the problem of fatherless boys being raised by single mothers. That never turns out well, and merely fails to raise a generation with any fear of or respect for authority.
However, as @loppar stated, this inherent lack of respect for authority is present among various races and cultures when the common factor is being raised by a single woman.
@twojarslave I really don’t think the problem is found in overt white supremacy so much as it’s found in an ignorance of the everyday differences influencing the outcomes of peoples’ lives.
That guy mowing people down with his car is an isolated example of violent racism, but it’s the extreme version of what the current Trumpian narrative would have us lean towards. It propagates the victim mentality for white people because people of color would like to stop getting shot and arrested at disproportionate rates for the same crimes. Trump indirectly supports the notion that achieving racial equality means knocking white people down ten pegs when it doesn’t. That’s why everyone is so against change; they believe it’s going to hurt them by elevating others. This is the toxic attitude that spreads among all of his supporters, and it’s really an obstacle standing in the way of positive change for everybody.
Nobody is saying this though. Trying to acknowledge and fix a real problem shouldn’t be equated to a hypothetical situation where all white people = bad.
Making that false connection is literally what puts everyone’s hair on edge whenever someone mentions BLM. They don’t believe that white people are inherently bad, and I know you’ll disagree with me on that (further proving my point here). They’re trying to reveal a systemic situation to us and we’re interpreting the whole thing as people being individually accused of racism and wrongdoing. They just want our help to create positive change, they don’t want to come for us like Tucker Carlson said.
@chris_ottawa why would “cultural differences” make people of color more unwilling to work or more likely to shoot someone than their white peers? I don’t understand that sentiment, but I don’t want to make any judgments.
Also, the prison system is full of disease and crime too. We incarcerate more people than China, and most of them are black. We also arrest more black people for the same crimes, even though there are more white people in America.
“But they commit more violent crimes!”
Again, not taking into account the environment and circumstances people are raised within and what we can do to make living more equitable for everybody in the USA is doing us great harm as a country. It’s preventing racial unity and inciting division based on skin tone.
It’s a known fact that Jim Crow laws still influence the system because black people have historically been enslaved within prisons and used as free labor. The system was designed to push impoverished people of color towards crime for survival so a birth-to-prison pipeline would be established, effectively reimplementing slavery unless you were an extraordinarily lucky person.
All they needed to do to go from “free” to “slave” was get brought up on charges, and whether or not they were true didn’t matter because they were going to jail for resisting arrest/defending themselves anyway.
I’m not saying black people are this special group that deserves to be exempt from the law, even though that’s how at least four of you have been twisting my words.
I’m just saying that they’re currently marginalized and discriminated against, and have historically been treated like absolute fucking dirt.
How any of you can disagree with that statement, I don’t know.
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Peaceful protesting spreading peacefully. It is now Tuesday morning, will we hear Joe Biden condemn this weekend’s violence?
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@liftangryordie500 There is literally nobody who argues that people don’t have disadvantages in life that can stem from all kinds of uncontrollable circumstances, like skin color.
My comment was a sarcastic illustration of the continued absurdity of the white supremacist menace narrative we’ve been being fed. Years have now gone by and the only extremists stepping out of the shadows to act are leftists, emboldened by the same people who’ve been assuring us that unnamed white supremacist Trump supporters are the real threat.
The fact that an isolated incident perpetrated by one individual is still the principle example brought up show how hollow the narrative has always been.
Meanwhile our cities have been burned, looted and are being subjected to further destabilization by progressive policies and their consequences on humans.
But yes, that was a very poor choice of words by Trump.
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- I agree with you about the whole white supremacist narrative - I think it’s unhelpful and breeds racially-motivated resentment on both sides. However, the media won’t stop sensationalizing and racially imbuing the news because that’s what pays their overhead fees. I’d disagree that the only extremists at play here are “leftists”, though, because the cop who killed George Floyd hasn’t yet been labeled an extremist for kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes.
You also have the people who are taking advantage of the entire situation and being criminals, hence the violence. I don’t think defunding the police is in any way the answer to this problem, because when cops are removed from the situation, violence and crime are much more prevalent (I believe shootings are up 600% here in NYC, the epicenter of progressivist bullshit). I don’t leave my house after dark because I’ll probably get shot or mugged. But, I think cops should be afforded more training than the 6 months they get in academy before they’re thrown into war zones. Other countries give their police years of schooling and throw their prospective officers into every situation imaginable within the confines of training.
Unfortunately, the hyper-partisanship now associated with the future of the US police force is making it impossible for anybody to initiate progressive, positive change without pushing the needle way too far left.
That’s just where we are, and it’s unfortunate because a solution in the middle is very apparent. People just don’t want to look it in the face because it’s not found in common discourse (unlike “defund the police”, a phrase which has found its way into the mouth of every ignorant teenager on TikTok).
I think that systemic racism can be dismantled without undoing our protection from crime and disorder. Other people, more notably the progressives in charge, will bow at the knee without firstly coming to their own conclusions about what’s best.
Basically, we’ve now switched the narrative from ignoring POC’s problems to obsessing over the total demolition of the police force. Neither view is helpful, and we’ll suffer for it.
Okay, I disagree with you here. Leftists aren’t emboldening violence by calling for change; criminals are taking advantage of multiple states’ hasty decisions to reduce/defund their police forces by committing crimes with impunity. These people would have been committing crimes in secrecy anyway, but the sudden lack of cops on the street has unsurprisingly emboldened criminals to commit more crimes in a more public manner.
White people are overwhelmingly antagonizing Portland’s federal agents by throwing bottles and bricks over the gates of the courthouse and provoking them to assault peaceful protesters.
Have you ever noticed that all of the violence happens at night? That’s when criminals have cover of darkness. Peaceful protesters aren’t concerned with waltzing up to your local convenience store in broad daylight with a can of gasoline and a lighter.
I’d like to think I lean left, but I don’t support the total abolition of our police force because I think that’s fucking stupid. Do you think someone can call themselves a leftist and not wish to defund the police, or are the two a package deal?
Someone drove into a crowd of peaceful protesters last week.
Can’t argue with that logic - I just don’t think we got to this point in quite the same way as you. Words matter. Racial tensions have been boiling since Trump’s election.
Reducing Trump’s statements to a matter of semantics is also really wrong; he consistently demonstrates the same sentiment over and over again no matter what he’s discussing about race. Example - instead of acknowledging police brutality as an issue, he pulls out the “but more white people are murdered than black people yearly!” card.
He doesn’t acknowledge genuine, hot-button issues that could be fixed with just a bit of human decency, and I’d wager he does so intentionally so as not to anger his voter base (his only chance at re-election).
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The peaceful protest who keep taking upon themselves to block off roads and highways while threatening drivers who then become frightened and confused? The ones that then rush up and pound on their vehicles while holding weapons. The ones brandishing an AR-15? or, the one that accidentally shot two fellow protestors while shooting at a Jeep? Stay out of the roads and stop spooking the hell out of people trying to get home after a thing called work.
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And he didn’t call the Charlottesville driver, or anyone else that committed violence, very fine people. He flat out condemned the driver and those, left and right, who were violent. His very nice people comment was obviously for those who were peaceful on both sides of the confederate statue issue. There were actual peaceful protestors on both sides, after all. Trump is an immoral idiot. Why does he have to be some kind of grand wizard praising homicidal vehicular terrorists? The reality is bad enough. Sorry, but I’ve grown short with the exaggerations. Watching leaders on the left irresponsibly implying that Trump intends to suspend democracy and remain in office as some kind of king. Really, while leftists, loot, burn, and maim we’re going to ratchet up the rhetoric, giving further justification to ‘revolution?’
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Ah, @Sloth I’d respond back but I’m growing weary of debating politics when we’re not seeing each other’s points for what they are. Hope there’s no hard feelings, politics suck all around and there’s really no winning to be done.
None at all lift. I appreciate anyone in this day and age who can talk about these matters and still shake hands at the end. You’re a gentleman.
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Thanks for the kind words Sloth, I hope you and your family stay safe in Miami.
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Yes. The opportunities are there. The chance is not shitty. It’s a question of being equipped to take advantage of the opportunity. If the US was truly a systemically racist nation, there would not be schools in black areas where not only do kids get an education, but 2-3 meals a day along with dental, mental and health care.
Note, you didn’t say white supremacy or the police are the cause of the issues in the schools but rather, the students.
Of course, not. Minority students (except Asians) get preferential treatment when it comes to college admissions. They can be less qualified yet still get in ahead of someone better qualified.
The people you describe are a myth made up by people like Tyler Perry: the struggling single black mom with 5 kids who works 3 jobs. This is America. People get welfare, foodstamps, subsidized housing, kids get 2-3 meals at school. I don’t see starving people in the ghetto but I do see obesity and diabetes.
No one has said otherwise.
The issue is that if a cop has to arrest suspect, he can’t take into consideration that person’s life story. He can’t take into consideration that person’s life story when it ends up being a lethal force situation.
Ah, and that gets to a big reason why you have anti BLM discourse from not only people on this forum but from people in academia and the media. BLM believes in dismantling the nuclear family and abolishing the patriarchy because it’s racist. Someone needs to tell them that has already happened in the ghetto and we see the results. But BLM was founded by people who are not from the ghetto. They have the luxury to dream up utopias on paper and in academia. They are the kind of socialists Orwell despised.
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She’s a black person with a voice. I heard what she said and it wasn’t inane. Perhaps a bit insensitive, but she was referring to the fact that the guy was very far from a saint. However wrong his death was does not take away from his pretty impressive criminal history.
That does not take away from the fact that he did not deserve the death penalty at the hands of a psychotic cop who seemed to relish in the torture of Mr. Floyd.
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Believe it or not, the myth known as ANTIFA does exist and it is well coordinated and planned. Nothing about this is random at this point. This shit is happening in the UK and Australia as well. In Austin, there were people literally holding the ANTIFA flag, it is black and red with a circle with 3 arrows in the middle.
The majority of these people are not opportunists. Opportunists don’t show up with shields and commercial grade fireworks with nails in them. Or lasers that can burn through wood.
We cannot be ignorant about whats going on here, it’s very dangerous. We cannot give them any cover or quarter.
They already have the mainstream media running cover for them, presumably because many are members.
30 people have been killed now. That’s just from the ‘demonstrations’, not ordinary criminal or gang activity. An 8 year old girl is among the victims. How long are we going to put up with it?
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No, that did not happen. Several people drove into protests and were attacked by maniacs. One guy learned his lesson the hard way. They carry guns in Texas, even in Austin. One nimrod was LARPing with an AR 15 and paid full price.
Of course it’s an issue, nobody disputed that. But what are you supposed to do, allow people to commit crime if they are poor or a certain ethnic group?
See your comment above. If you grow up around people who are selling drugs, robbing people, shooting people, and not working then you are much more likely to do the same. A lower proportion of white people live in those environments.
OK, but what now? Defund police and destroy cities? You have identified certain issues that everyone is aware of, but what can realistically be done about it?
How does that make him an extremist? He was just a bad cop.
Left wing politicians are emboldening violence by siding with extremists and letting them riot.
I stand corrected, there are many ANTIFA flags and you can get great prices right now on Ebay!
This is factually incorrect. They are not regular leftists, though. They are far-left extremists, but they are leftists. What do you think the hammer and sickle being spray painted on the buildings mean?
Don’t take my word for it, delve into their dark world if you wish, but be weary of viruses.
30 people killed by demonstrations, not ordinary criminal activity. Mind linking to that list?
I’m tired of seeing people say even that. The guy may have committed murder in broad daylight knowing that he was being filmed, but I really doubt it. He likely thought(and may well have been-Floyd had something like double the lethal dose of fentanyl in his system) they were doing exactly what they should be in that situation. He’s been charged with murder because he has an angry face in a still photo.