[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Discussion about targets is like an NBA game.All players agree its the basket.Now which team will put in the ball more times in 48 minuts is altogether another thing.
[/quote]
That is the second best line about interpersonal violence I have ever read/heard from a Croatian.
It behind to Mirko Filopovik’s “Right leg hospital, left leg cemetery.” line. But really, who can compete with that.
Regards,
Robert A
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Dillman is a fraud. There is some truth to the notion that if you hit certain points on the human body it can result in a KO (the point of the chin for example or the carotid sinus), but most of Dillman’s stuff is just smoke and mirrors or the power of suggestion. Dillman and people like him only tend to “demonstrate” their stuff on their own students and if by chance someone talks them into demoing it on them and it doesn’t work they come out with nonsense like “oh, well your chi/ki just isn’t developed enough for me to be able to manipulate it”, or “oh, well you just aren’t trained enough for this to work on you”. My instructor has stood in front of Dillman himself and had him try one of his pressure point KO’s and it did not work.
This type of nonsensical “super natural” martial arts is quite frankly a disgrace to real martial artists.
Now, if you personally feel that your son is getting something beneficial out of the classes (self discipline, respect, better focus, a form of exercise that he enjoys doing, etc…) then fine; often times children’s martial arts is more about character building than it is about physical combative skills anyway.
But personally I would feel conflicted knowing that what the instructor was teaching my child was fake or at the very least less than optimal and could even be misleading him as to the nature of reality or his capabilities to defend himself. I would also be wary as a parent as these systems are notorious “black belt factories” (ask them how long it generally takes to earn a black belt, if it’s less than 6 years in any case then that’s a red flag, also look around and see if they have a bunch of under 18 year old black belts, another red flag) who will basically just sell people their black belt (i.e. you just keep paying them for the rank evaluations and they’ll keep promoting you/your child to the next rank, even if that person couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag). They tend to be about quantity and not quality.
Maybe it’s the only MA school in your area, or maybe the instructor is very good with kids and is known for developing moral, well adjusted students/members of society, or maybe you have checked out all of the schools and have decided that this one is the best choice (has the best vibe, your son has friends that go there, is the most convenient locationwise, etc…). If so, I’m not trying to make you change your mind or go against your gut. But, if you haven’t checked around to the other schools in your area you might want to do so.
Just my 2 cents. Good luck.[/quote]
You are spot on with your analysis.
I spoke with Dan Severn who did a seminar that my son attended. He told me that he learned these many deadly pressure points before he fought against Tank Abbott in the UFC. He thought it might give him an edge. When he tried these deadly pressure points on Tank Abbott, Abbott didn’t flinch. Of course Dan went on to beat Tank but it was because of superior wrestling and had nothing to do with pressure points as they were just a waste of time.
People like to think that pressure points can work because they then think that they can be equal to big tough guys who actually train hard. It reminds me of other fraudulent advertising, like the magic diet pill instead of actually cutting back on calories and working out to lose weight.
In short, the people who are vulnerable to this type of scam are the very ones who actually need to train with a quality system and lift weights to gain some strength. Instead after a Dillman seminar they walk around thinking they’re invincible if they touch someone in just the right place. It would be funny if it were not so very pathetic.
Dillman is detestable and someone who does more damage than good as he not only gives martial arts a bad name, he also gives the weak a false confidence that can only get them hurt.[/quote]
Come on now Zeb, I know we’ve discussed this before. You are giving Dan Severn experience with Tank Abbott way too much credit of being the definitive test of nerve attacks. To begin with Dan Severn was a Greco Roman wrestler. So his expertise and training was not in martial arts where he would have spent years working to develop a skill set that would have been useful for Tuite.
Next major flaw in your theory is your low opinion of Tank Abbott. Have you actually seen the beating Dan Severn gave him? Severn repeatedly elbowed him in the back of the head and couldn’t put him out. Tank is one of those people you could hit in the head with a baseball bat or shoot and it might not slow him down much.
My point is just because something doesn’t work very well on someone like that it doesn’t mean something is useless. Some people are just hard as nails and it takes a lot of extra effort to put them away.
http://mma-tube.net/watch_video.php?v=X74D3H9UBO2O
[/quote]
Tank Abott has been beaten enough times,so we know what works against him.He was numerous times punched out and choked out.
[/quote]
Obviously this all went way over your head and you don’t have a clue what was being discussed. We weren’t discussing all the collected fights of Tank Abbott, we were discussing one fight. The reason why we were discussing only one fight is because that one very limited fight was being used to try and discredit an entire field of study.
So now I’ll restate my points in the hope that you might get it the second time.
Abbott may not have been a really skillful fighter but he was no punk and he was in his prime back then. Just because something didn’t work on him, that in no way means that it would not work on the rest of the population, he just had a particularly hard head.
Severn had at best a beginners level of knowledge and skill. If you watch the video Severn didn’t try more than one target. What Severn did in that fight didn’t prove anything, because he didn’t try anything.
[quote]Robert A wrote:
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Discussion about targets is like an NBA game.All players agree its the basket.Now which team will put in the ball more times in 48 minuts is altogether another thing.
[/quote]
That is the second best line about interpersonal violence I have ever read/heard from a Croatian.
It behind to Mirko Filopovik’s “Right leg hospital, left leg cemetery.” line. But really, who can compete with that.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
Theres more fighting wisdom exchanged between those who spend more than half of their s day in cheapest Croatian bars drinking cheap rakija but thats a topic for another thread ;))
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Dillman is a fraud. There is some truth to the notion that if you hit certain points on the human body it can result in a KO (the point of the chin for example or the carotid sinus), but most of Dillman’s stuff is just smoke and mirrors or the power of suggestion. Dillman and people like him only tend to “demonstrate” their stuff on their own students and if by chance someone talks them into demoing it on them and it doesn’t work they come out with nonsense like “oh, well your chi/ki just isn’t developed enough for me to be able to manipulate it”, or “oh, well you just aren’t trained enough for this to work on you”. My instructor has stood in front of Dillman himself and had him try one of his pressure point KO’s and it did not work.
This type of nonsensical “super natural” martial arts is quite frankly a disgrace to real martial artists.
Now, if you personally feel that your son is getting something beneficial out of the classes (self discipline, respect, better focus, a form of exercise that he enjoys doing, etc…) then fine; often times children’s martial arts is more about character building than it is about physical combative skills anyway.
But personally I would feel conflicted knowing that what the instructor was teaching my child was fake or at the very least less than optimal and could even be misleading him as to the nature of reality or his capabilities to defend himself. I would also be wary as a parent as these systems are notorious “black belt factories” (ask them how long it generally takes to earn a black belt, if it’s less than 6 years in any case then that’s a red flag, also look around and see if they have a bunch of under 18 year old black belts, another red flag) who will basically just sell people their black belt (i.e. you just keep paying them for the rank evaluations and they’ll keep promoting you/your child to the next rank, even if that person couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag). They tend to be about quantity and not quality.
Maybe it’s the only MA school in your area, or maybe the instructor is very good with kids and is known for developing moral, well adjusted students/members of society, or maybe you have checked out all of the schools and have decided that this one is the best choice (has the best vibe, your son has friends that go there, is the most convenient locationwise, etc…). If so, I’m not trying to make you change your mind or go against your gut. But, if you haven’t checked around to the other schools in your area you might want to do so.
Just my 2 cents. Good luck.[/quote]
You are spot on with your analysis.
I spoke with Dan Severn who did a seminar that my son attended. He told me that he learned these many deadly pressure points before he fought against Tank Abbott in the UFC. He thought it might give him an edge. When he tried these deadly pressure points on Tank Abbott, Abbott didn’t flinch. Of course Dan went on to beat Tank but it was because of superior wrestling and had nothing to do with pressure points as they were just a waste of time.
People like to think that pressure points can work because they then think that they can be equal to big tough guys who actually train hard. It reminds me of other fraudulent advertising, like the magic diet pill instead of actually cutting back on calories and working out to lose weight.
In short, the people who are vulnerable to this type of scam are the very ones who actually need to train with a quality system and lift weights to gain some strength. Instead after a Dillman seminar they walk around thinking they’re invincible if they touch someone in just the right place. It would be funny if it were not so very pathetic.
Dillman is detestable and someone who does more damage than good as he not only gives martial arts a bad name, he also gives the weak a false confidence that can only get them hurt.[/quote]
Come on now Zeb, I know we’ve discussed this before. You are giving Dan Severn experience with Tank Abbott way too much credit of being the definitive test of nerve attacks. To begin with Dan Severn was a Greco Roman wrestler. So his expertise and training was not in martial arts where he would have spent years working to develop a skill set that would have been useful for Tuite.
Next major flaw in your theory is your low opinion of Tank Abbott. Have you actually seen the beating Dan Severn gave him? Severn repeatedly elbowed him in the back of the head and couldn’t put him out. Tank is one of those people you could hit in the head with a baseball bat or shoot and it might not slow him down much.
My point is just because something doesn’t work very well on someone like that it doesn’t mean something is useless. Some people are just hard as nails and it takes a lot of extra effort to put them away.
http://mma-tube.net/watch_video.php?v=X74D3H9UBO2O
[/quote]
Tank Abott has been beaten enough times,so we know what works against him.He was numerous times punched out and choked out.
[/quote]
Obviously this all went way over your head and you don’t have a clue what was being discussed. We weren’t discussing all the collected fights of Tank Abbott, we were discussing one fight. The reason why we were discussing only one fight is because that one very limited fight was being used to try and discredit an entire field of study.
So now I’ll restate my points in the hope that you might get it the second time.
Abbott may not have been a really skillful fighter but he was no punk and he was in his prime back then. Just because something didn’t work on him, that in no way means that it would not work on the rest of the population, he just had a particularly hard head.
Severn had at best a beginners level of knowledge and skill. If you watch the video Severn didn’t try more than one target. What Severn did in that fight didn’t prove anything, because he didn’t try anything. [/quote]
Well,to put it in more practical terms,if I had to fight Tank Abbott,I would try to punch him out or choke him out,coz it proved to work against him.And I would lose,so that settles the whole thing.
On the other hand,if punching out and choking out worked against a particular hard head like Tank Abbott,then it will obviously work against rest of the population.
And since you dont know how dangerous a person in front of you is,you d better stick to what works against hard cases.
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[/quote]
Tank Abott has been beaten enough times,so we know what works against him.He was numerous times punched out and choked out.
[/quote]
Obviously this all went way over your head and you don’t have a clue what was being discussed. We weren’t discussing all the collected fights of Tank Abbott, we were discussing one fight. The reason why we were discussing only one fight is because that one very limited fight was being used to try and discredit an entire field of study.
So now I’ll restate my points in the hope that you might get it the second time.
Abbott may not have been a really skillful fighter but he was no punk and he was in his prime back then. Just because something didn’t work on him, that in no way means that it would not work on the rest of the population, he just had a particularly hard head.
Severn had at best a beginners level of knowledge and skill. If you watch the video Severn didn’t try more than one target. What Severn did in that fight didn’t prove anything, because he didn’t try anything. [/quote]
Well,to put it in more practical terms,if I had to fight Tank Abbott,I would try to punch him out or choke him out,coz it proved to work against him.And I would lose,so that settles the whole thing.
On the other hand,if punching out and choking out worked against a particular hard head like Tank Abbott,then it will obviously work against rest of the population.
And since you dont know how dangerous a person in front of you is,you d better stick to what works against hard cases. [/quote]
Perhaps you are losing something in the translation. Because you are not getting it. This is not a discussion of how to fight Tank Abbott. The only reason why he (Tank) made it into this discussion is because ZEB, more or less told us, that Dan Severn told him (ZEB) that he ( Severn) went to a seminar where he (Severn) learned a little about nerve centers and that when he tried to use that little bit of knowledge against Tank Abbott he (Severn)he couldn’t make it work.
Therefore the lesson that we can take away from Dan Severn fight with Tank Abbott is the art of Tuite is a bunch of bullshit. Why is that so? Because Dan Severn couldn’t knock out Tank Abbott and it’s all the fault of nerve centers.
What I don’t think is being considered by Zeb is that perhaps Dan Severn is not quite the expert he imagines him to be. That maybe it takes more than a background in Greco Roman wrestling and “freestyle” (whatever that is) combined with attending a weekend seminar to become a master practitioner of Tuite.
As with any other martial art. Ones skill at Tuite is totally dependent upon their level of knowledge combined with their level of effort. It takes practice and perseverance to become good.
Another crucial factor is realistic expectations. If you think you are going to be like Spock using the Vulcan neck pinch to completely disable someone with one mere touch you are going to be disappointed.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[/quote]
Tank Abott has been beaten enough times,so we know what works against him.He was numerous times punched out and choked out.
[/quote]
Obviously this all went way over your head and you don’t have a clue what was being discussed. We weren’t discussing all the collected fights of Tank Abbott, we were discussing one fight. The reason why we were discussing only one fight is because that one very limited fight was being used to try and discredit an entire field of study.
So now I’ll restate my points in the hope that you might get it the second time.
Abbott may not have been a really skillful fighter but he was no punk and he was in his prime back then. Just because something didn’t work on him, that in no way means that it would not work on the rest of the population, he just had a particularly hard head.
Severn had at best a beginners level of knowledge and skill. If you watch the video Severn didn’t try more than one target. What Severn did in that fight didn’t prove anything, because he didn’t try anything. [/quote]
Well,to put it in more practical terms,if I had to fight Tank Abbott,I would try to punch him out or choke him out,coz it proved to work against him.And I would lose,so that settles the whole thing.
On the other hand,if punching out and choking out worked against a particular hard head like Tank Abbott,then it will obviously work against rest of the population.
And since you dont know how dangerous a person in front of you is,you d better stick to what works against hard cases. [/quote]
Perhaps you are losing something in the translation. Because you are not getting it. This is not a discussion of how to fight Tank Abbott. The only reason why he (Tank) made it into this discussion is because ZEB, more or less told us, that Dan Severn told him (ZEB) that he ( Severn) went to a seminar where he (Severn) learned a little about nerve centers and that when he tried to use that little bit of knowledge against Tank Abbott he (Severn)he couldn’t make it work.
Therefore the lesson that we can take away from Dan Severn fight with Tank Abbott is the art of Tuite is a bunch of bullshit. Why is that so? Because Dan Severn couldn’t knock out Tank Abbott and it’s all the fault of nerve centers.
What I don’t think is being considered by Zeb is that perhaps Dan Severn is not quite the expert he imagines him to be. That maybe it takes more than a background in Greco Roman wrestling and “freestyle” (whatever that is) combined with attending a weekend seminar to become a master practitioner of Tuite.
As with any other martial art. Ones skill at Tuite is totally dependent upon their level of knowledge combined with their level of effort. It takes practice and perseverance to become good.
Another crucial factor is realistic expectations. If you think you are going to be like Spock using the Vulcan neck pinch to completely disable someone with one mere touch you are going to be disappointed. [/quote]
Ok,you win.
With respect to all disciplines there is one rule that every MMA, UFC, or anybody experienced in real full contact fights will agree: - if there are no full contact sparrings, punches and kicks to the head, submissions, chokes… it’s definitely a fraud… there are no dinners for free… everything will be fake in those fraudulent MA styles - the discipline, the confidence, even the general conditioning isn’t sufficient enough to be physically capable… everything is fake there…
Would be way way more useful to send your kid to a track and field school so he gets real strength and endurance foundation, phenomenal fitness level, and of course discipline… with those he will definitely be more useful as a man, he may achieve real results there, or later having very high conditioning level he will switch to real martial arts with big advantage over others, or he may decide to work for special force, or he may just becomes a banker who has knowledge of a queen of sport, and disciple to stay fit for the rest of his life…
[quote]Antonio. B wrote:
With respect to all disciplines there is one rule that every MMA, UFC, or anybody experienced in real full contact fights will agree: - if there are no full contact sparrings, punches and kicks to the head, submissions, chokes… it’s definitely a fraud… there are no dinners for free… everything will be fake in those fraudulent MA styles - the discipline, the confidence, even the general conditioning isn’t sufficient enough to be physically capable… everything is fake there…
Would be way way more useful to send your kid to a track and field school so he gets real strength and endurance foundation, phenomenal fitness level, and of course discipline… with those he will definitely be more useful as a man, he may achieve real results there, or later having very high conditioning level he will switch to real martial arts with big advantage over others, or he may decide to work for special force, or he may just becomes a banker who has knowledge of a queen of sport, and disciple to stay fit for the rest of his life… [/quote]
Exactly!
Its a ridicoulous concept to claim to be able to produce capable fighters who in the process never fought i.e. never had fights or hard sparring.
How many basketball games and streeball games did Michael Jordan have played in order to become a great player?
They toss in there buddism,grand masters,ranks,titles,tai chi…all that bullshido= claiming to be able to fight & win in life or death situation while avoiding anything resembling real fight like a plaque.
[quote]Robert A wrote:
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Discussion about targets is like an NBA game.All players agree its the basket.Now which team will put in the ball more times in 48 minuts is altogether another thing.
[/quote]
That is the second best line about interpersonal violence I have ever read/heard from a Croatian.
It behind to Mirko Filopovik’s “Right leg hospital, left leg cemetery.” line. But really, who can compete with that.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
My Grandfather - union carpenter when there weren’t any power tools, WWII Pacific sailor, and just mean ole SOB that had a flat belly and tennis ball biceps at 75 - had 2 sayings
[quote]treco wrote:
[quote]Robert A wrote:
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Discussion about targets is like an NBA game.All players agree its the basket.Now which team will put in the ball more times in 48 minuts is altogether another thing.
[/quote]
That is the second best line about interpersonal violence I have ever read/heard from a Croatian.
It behind to Mirko Filopovik’s “Right leg hospital, left leg cemetery.” line. But really, who can compete with that.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
My Grandfather - union carpenter when there weren’t any power tools, WWII Pacific sailor, and just mean ole SOB that had a flat belly and tennis ball biceps at 75 - had 2 sayings
It seems your grandfather was tough as nails! 
I have some tough people in my own family.This is my uncle ( aged 65) prior to physical confrontation with a masked protester! ;))
[quote]Robert A wrote:
As far as “pressure points”, I remember someone telling me that “You cannot put Chi in the eyes or the testicles, that is why they are so vulnerable.”
[/quote]
I guess a baseball bat is a good weapon because you can put a whole lotta chi in it?
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
[quote]Robert A wrote:
As far as “pressure points”, I remember someone telling me that “You cannot put Chi in the eyes or the testicles, that is why they are so vulnerable.”
[/quote]
I guess a baseball bat is a good weapon because you can put a whole lotta chi in it?[/quote]
I tried to load my bat with chi to make up for my medical condition. I suffer from L.O.F.T. syndrome.
Unfortunately, the bat split open, and the fucking umpire DQ’d me.
True story.
Note: this may not be a true story.
Regards,
Robert A
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
[quote]Robert A wrote:
As far as “pressure points”, I remember someone telling me that “You cannot put Chi in the eyes or the testicles, that is why they are so vulnerable.”
[/quote]
I guess a baseball bat is a good weapon because you can put a whole lotta chi in it?[/quote]
I prefer more modern methods of chi manipulation- like concentrating my chi in a big ball of fury and sending it through internet to my enemies 7th chakra to disrupt the flow of ying and yang through the bodies meridians! ;))
[quote]Robert A wrote:
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
[quote]Robert A wrote:
As far as “pressure points”, I remember someone telling me that “You cannot put Chi in the eyes or the testicles, that is why they are so vulnerable.”
[/quote]
I guess a baseball bat is a good weapon because you can put a whole lotta chi in it?[/quote]
I tried to load my bat with chi to make up for my medical condition. I suffer from L.O.F.T. syndrome.
Unfortunately, the bat split open, and the fucking umpire DQ’d me.
True story.
Note: this may not be a true story.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
Whether this story is true or not you cannot prove chi doesnt exist.I once knew this 90+ year old sensei from Okinawa.He had snow-white long hair,long beard & long eyebrows.He never used public transportation or a car,coz he used to levitate over the city.Once,he was jumped by a gang of 20+ Hell Angels.Within seconds,he dropped them by hitting their trigger-points.His mind was an empty void.
As he didnt share my passion for cheap drinks & easy girls,our paths of destiny parted away…
I knew that same dude in Okinawa…That is crazy. I lured him to a hooker house on BC street and he trigger pointed me. When I woke up I saw mama-san buttoning her blouse and there was a faint smell of seafood. I ran all the way home and never seen him again.
[quote]Ranzo wrote:
I knew that same dude in Okinawa…That is crazy. I lured him to a hooker house on BC street and he trigger pointed me. When I woke up I saw mama-san buttoning her blouse and there was a faint smell of seafood. I ran all the way home and never seen him again.[/quote]
As I only trigger-point clit & G-spot,I guess I am white belt level ;))