Genetically Screwed?

[quote]McMusclesNHam wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]McMusclesNHam wrote:
I’ ve been lifting for nearly 3 years. Im still 100% Natural. My chest has always been shit-tastic, it just does not want to grow. Even with weekly progressions in weight, it always seems to shrink back down by the 4th or 5th day since being hit. I’ve always done a 4 day split, hitting chest once a week. Can you offer any advice on what I should do to get it growing? Starting to think my chest is genetically doomed.[/quote]

I guarantee if you’ve only been training for 3 years, it’s

  1. You are not eating enough

and/or

  1. You are not training nearly as hard as you need to.[/quote]

naa[/quote]

I was going to offer assistance until I read this. You’re on your own.

Work on chest recruitment. Do it every day. Some examples of exercises to activate the chest and improve recruitment are squeeze press and medicine ball throws from the chest. Maybe even some light, explosive bench pressing to lead off every workout. You can teach your body to recruit muscles better.

This will not overtrain you. Seriously, I’m tired of hearing “overtrain” from people who aren’t hitting 100+ sets a day. You can work any muscle as many times a week IN A ROW as you want, as long as your programming is intelligent and you aren’t throwing maxes up every day.

Also, make sure you’re bench press form is good. Check out the bench press video in the exercise library. I’m willing to bet that you aren’t shrugging your shoulders up and back and engaging your chest.

There’s no way you’re nearing your strength ceiling with a 270lb bench. I hit that when I was 16 and had no fucking clue what I was doing, and my chest sucks.

[quote]ronald1919 wrote:
Holy shiitt lol u guys were benching 315 in kinder garden…
there are many bber in my gym that rarely go over 225 and they have very impressive chests. to name a pro look at silvio samuel, he uses wide grip 225 on bp(even tho he could do more). You don’t need a strong bench press for a big chest…just learn to feel the muscle more.

[/quote]

This post sucks for multiple reasons.

SILVIO SAMUEL doesnt need a big bench for a big chest. That says nothign about what anyone else needs to build a big chest.

[quote]ronald1919 wrote:
(even tho he could do more)[/quote]

LOLz @ you for not understanding how significant this is.

Last week with biceps, I only went up to a 50lbs dumbbell. It would be pretty sad for someone to think that is the same as someone who either isn’t even that strong or who just reached that weight as a max.

Arguing strength and weights used, or even bf% is pointless and has nothing to do with pec development. Like some of the other guys noted, strength gains can, and often do precede size gains, and usually if viewed as the sole indicator of progress, are misleading. Within my 1st year of training I was benching 315, but I had only put on about 2 lbs of bodyweight, and my my chest would continue to suck ass for many more years to come.

Now, I don’t even bother tryng to put up 315 (although I can do it on an incline, I don’t!). I’ve learned to actually recruit my muscles through proper form and positioning, learned to pre-exhaust stronger muscles groups that prevented proper pec development by taking the brunt of the work, learned how to balance my workload and my nutrition and recovery outside of the gym to ensure proper growth is allowed to occur, and learned to not give a sh-t about how much weight I lift or what anyone else in the gym thinks if I look to them like I’m moving p-ssy weights.

The answer you’re looking for is ^here. It may take a while, and will undoubtedly take a bit of effort on your part, but solving YOUR puzzle is the game. Not how much weight you lift, not how much bodyfat you have, but how to unlock what works for you. No one else can give you the answer. Blaming genetics is the ultimate cop-out, and the guy who coined the term ‘hard-gainer’ should be shot. While everyone has different potential, and starting points, NO ONE cannot make some progress if they are doing everything correctly.

S

^Agree’d

i can bench 405

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Arguing strength and weights used, or even bf% is pointless and has nothing to do with pec development. Like some of the other guys noted, strength gains can, and often do precede size gains, and usually if viewed as the sole indicator of progress, are misleading. Within my 1st year of training I was benching 315, but I had only put on about 2 lbs of bodyweight, and my my chest would continue to suck ass for many more years to come.

Now, I don’t even bother tryng to put up 315 (although I can do it on an incline, I don’t!). I’ve learned to actually recruit my muscles through proper form and positioning, learned to pre-exhaust stronger muscles groups that prevented proper pec development by taking the brunt of the work, learned how to balance my workload and my nutrition and recovery outside of the gym to ensure proper growth is allowed to occur, and learned to not give a sh-t about how much weight I lift or what anyone else in the gym thinks if I look to them like I’m moving p-ssy weights.

The answer you’re looking for is ^here. It may take a while, and will undoubtedly take a bit of effort on your part, but solving YOUR puzzle is the game. Not how much weight you lift, not how much bodyfat you have, but how to unlock what works for you. No one else can give you the answer. Blaming genetics is the ultimate cop-out, and the guy who coined the term ‘hard-gainer’ should be shot. While everyone has different potential, and starting points, NO ONE cannot make some progress if they are doing everything correctly.

S[/quote]

I was going to say something along those lines, then I shied away since it seemed that some of the built guys put more emphasis on the numbers.

If an intermediate lifter has crappy development in any bodypart like the pecs (vs. other bodyparts), telling them to get much stronger on a bench press (or just eat more) is gonna do crap all for their pec growth if there isn’t enough over-load on them. Of course strength for reps is essential…on the target muscle though.

Agreed with Waylander, focus on the negative, keep good tension on the pecs. Play with the grip, hand placement, elbows, ROM etc until you get a good feel on the target muscle. Or like Stu said, pre-exhaust with an isolation exercise first (followed quickly by the multi-joint movement). Or as some do, get a pump in the target muscle first (gives a better mind-muscle connection).

For myself (almost same height as you) I took a medium grip (just outside shoulder width), slowed the negative (lowered weight on bar for the first few sessions), kept elbows out more, and on the second chest exercise/2nd set, I didn’t lower the bar all the way to the chest to keep shoulders out of it. Also, like you seemed to notice, I have to train my chest roughly every 5 days to get decent development (for me, chest seems to progress better from brevity and frequency vs other bodyparts like back and legs where it’s more volume and plenty rest).

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

I was going to say something along those lines, then I shied away since it seemed that some of the built guys put more emphasis on the numbers.
[/quote]

That is because there needs to be some emphasis on the numbers. Yes, it is about muscle recruitment, but who actually has an impressively huge chest who can ONLY bench 250lbs? Yeah, you may see some guy who in the past had built up to benching over 400 who now does a lighter weight to feel the muscle working more, but that is NOTHING like someone reaching that weight for the first time.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

I was going to say something along those lines, then I shied away since it seemed that some of the built guys put more emphasis on the numbers.
[/quote]

That is because there needs to be some emphasis on the numbers. Yes, it is about muscle recruitment, but who actually has an impressively huge chest who can ONLY bench 250lbs? Yeah, you may see some guy who in the past had built up to benching over 400 who now does a lighter weight to feel the muscle working more, but that is NOTHING like someone reaching that weight for the first time.

[/quote]

Yeah both are equally important. Can’t have one without the other is what I was saying (focus on the weak links and progression).

[quote]winkel wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I don’t know if our situations are similar since I was much stronger than you and still had a shit-tastic chest lol but my chest HAS finally been growing and while it’s happening slowly, it’s getting there. I lift much lighter and put all my focus into the negative, stretch at the bottom and the contraction of my chest throughout the exercise. I’ve essentially turned it into a time under tension kind of deal and while the weight I’m using looks retarded for my size, it keeps me from involving my shoulders/triceps which has always been the issue.

so…in closing, I would still work on getting stronger first. Saying you are at a 270 lb bench press and can’t grow is wayyyyy too early to be called. For instance, I was doing 405 with solid reps on incline, 455 reps on flat bench and still had a shitty chest. At that point I knew something had to change. [/quote]

This here is interesting.

I am cursed with ridiculously long arms which is great for deadlifting but horrendous for chest and it shows. I tried upping chest training frequency to two - sometimes 3 times a week in the hope that it would make a difference but all it did was give me severe shoulder problems. AC joints hurts on anything LOWER than 30 degrees incline but oddly enough shoulder press and steep incline is no issue… Except from the fact that I do not feel anything in my chest - its all tris and shoulder…

I might want to try lowering the weight and see what that does… Could you give an indication on how much you reduced your weight? 50%? I assume you increased reps and/or sets dramatically then? Which exercises did you keep in your chest routine? (I assume you threw out flat BB bench)

[/quote]

Well for instance, I’ll do either 275 or 315 on incline smith, Incline DB’s I’ll use 100’s, HS machines where in the past I’ve done the whole stack+added extra weight onto the handles I’ll do maybe half that weight now. So a large reduction in weight.

Yah I definitely increased volume, usually 4 working sets per exercise instead of 1 or 2. I do incline DB press, cable fly, smith incline, incline DB fly, decline HS. I hit chest once every 5 days.

Honsetly though if you are putting up 400 on bench and still not using your chest you wont get growth in your chest. you need to learn how to work the muscle that you want to work. So for bench you better be feeling it in your chest and not just focusing on throwing up as much weight as possible or even losing focus on the msucle just to progress becasue everyone says thats the only way to grow. Work on chest recruitment and lighten up your benching, feel the chest work, then slowly progress up but if you stop feeling it in you chest your are wasting time (at least in terms of chest growth.)

The chest especially unlike a lot of other muscles but not all muscles obviously is very unique in terms of what will work for it based off your structure, leverages, height etc. It is VERY important for someone i believe to experiment with a lot of exercises for all body parts because certain exercises hit certain people a lot more or a lot less then others.

Myself for example, my chest only grows from pressing movements, My routine for a long time has been flat, incline and decline barbell and it works wonders for me. other people do better with flys and stretching type movements etc.

This goes for all muscles, not just for what exercises to use but for rep ranges, rep cadence (some muscles respond better to slower negatives or longer contractions etc) volume and how long they need to recover from whatever is best to put them through. There are so many factors and possibilities that in the end if you do enough trail and error and EAT ENOUGH TO SUPPORT THE TRAINING IN THE FIRST PLACE then the best person to tell you what you need to keep progressing when you reach a plateau or need to bring something up is yourself.

Thats how it should be anyways.

FST-7

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
i can bench 405
[/quote]

i can bench you

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
i can bench 405
[/quote]

i can bench you[/quote]

I’m pretty sure you can bench the bench and curl the squat rack.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
i can bench 405
[/quote]

i can bench you[/quote]

I can piss farther than both of you

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]winkel wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I don’t know if our situations are similar since I was much stronger than you and still had a shit-tastic chest lol but my chest HAS finally been growing and while it’s happening slowly, it’s getting there. I lift much lighter and put all my focus into the negative, stretch at the bottom and the contraction of my chest throughout the exercise. I’ve essentially turned it into a time under tension kind of deal and while the weight I’m using looks retarded for my size, it keeps me from involving my shoulders/triceps which has always been the issue.

so…in closing, I would still work on getting stronger first. Saying you are at a 270 lb bench press and can’t grow is wayyyyy too early to be called. For instance, I was doing 405 with solid reps on incline, 455 reps on flat bench and still had a shitty chest. At that point I knew something had to change. [/quote]

This here is interesting.

I am cursed with ridiculously long arms which is great for deadlifting but horrendous for chest and it shows. I tried upping chest training frequency to two - sometimes 3 times a week in the hope that it would make a difference but all it did was give me severe shoulder problems. AC joints hurts on anything LOWER than 30 degrees incline but oddly enough shoulder press and steep incline is no issue… Except from the fact that I do not feel anything in my chest - its all tris and shoulder…

I might want to try lowering the weight and see what that does… Could you give an indication on how much you reduced your weight? 50%? I assume you increased reps and/or sets dramatically then? Which exercises did you keep in your chest routine? (I assume you threw out flat BB bench)

[/quote]

Well for instance, I’ll do either 275 or 315 on incline smith, Incline DB’s I’ll use 100’s, HS machines where in the past I’ve done the whole stack+added extra weight onto the handles I’ll do maybe half that weight now. So a large reduction in weight.

Yah I definitely increased volume, usually 4 working sets per exercise instead of 1 or 2. I do incline DB press, cable fly, smith incline, incline DB fly, decline HS. I hit chest once every 5 days.[/quote]

What your weekly split like? I think hitting Chest every 5 days would help me. Do you hit everything every 5 days or just chest and the rest every week?

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Arguing strength and weights used, or even bf% is pointless and has nothing to do with pec development. Like some of the other guys noted, strength gains can, and often do precede size gains, and usually if viewed as the sole indicator of progress, are misleading. Within my 1st year of training I was benching 315, but I had only put on about 2 lbs of bodyweight, and my my chest would continue to suck ass for many more years to come.

Now, I don’t even bother tryng to put up 315 (although I can do it on an incline, I don’t!). I’ve learned to actually recruit my muscles through proper form and positioning, learned to pre-exhaust stronger muscles groups that prevented proper pec development by taking the brunt of the work, learned how to balance my workload and my nutrition and recovery outside of the gym to ensure proper growth is allowed to occur, and learned to not give a sh-t about how much weight I lift or what anyone else in the gym thinks if I look to them like I’m moving p-ssy weights.

The answer you’re looking for is ^here. It may take a while, and will undoubtedly take a bit of effort on your part, but solving YOUR puzzle is the game. Not how much weight you lift, not how much bodyfat you have, but how to unlock what works for you. No one else can give you the answer. Blaming genetics is the ultimate cop-out, and the guy who coined the term ‘hard-gainer’ should be shot. While everyone has different potential, and starting points, NO ONE cannot make some progress if they are doing everything correctly.

S[/quote]

I was going to say something along those lines, then I shied away since it seemed that some of the built guys put more emphasis on the numbers.

If an intermediate lifter has crappy development in any bodypart like the pecs (vs. other bodyparts), telling them to get much stronger on a bench press (or just eat more) is gonna do crap all for their pec growth if there isn’t enough over-load on them. Of course strength for reps is essential…on the target muscle though.

Agreed with Waylander, focus on the negative, keep good tension on the pecs. Play with the grip, hand placement, elbows, ROM etc until you get a good feel on the target muscle. Or like Stu said, pre-exhaust with an isolation exercise first (followed quickly by the multi-joint movement). Or as some do, get a pump in the target muscle first (gives a better mind-muscle connection).

For myself (almost same height as you) I took a medium grip (just outside shoulder width), slowed the negative (lowered weight on bar for the first few sessions), kept elbows out more, and on the second chest exercise/2nd set, I didn’t lower the bar all the way to the chest to keep shoulders out of it. Also, like you seemed to notice, I have to train my chest roughly every 5 days to get decent development (for me, chest seems to progress better from brevity and frequency vs other bodyparts like back and legs where it’s more volume and plenty rest).[/quote]

Same question bro

back
chest/calves
quads
arms
shoulders/hamstrings

Current split =

legs/chest+tris/back+bis/shoulders

About 6 days/week

Will be switching to something a bit more condensed soonish though (more days off) because my drive/recovery seems to be crap when I train days in a row (plus been feeling burned out lately from life in general)