Gay Marriage Discussion

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
161

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
To complicate matters, the book was translated several times and RE WRITTEN by King James (that’s why they call it “the king james version”) so that he could control the population better and conform to the particular beliefs of the Church of England. Why on earth would you TRUST such an altered and bastardized manuscript?
[/quote]

Another topic…but this is why I have great doubts about the parts of the Bible that seemingly elevate one person or group above others in God’s eyes(Romans 13, for instance). [/quote]

so if you have doubt about parts of the bible how can you know which is true and which is not? are you just picking the parts you like?[/quote]

The BRILLIANCE of the bible is that is written so that one can pretty much say ANYTHING at all, and have a biblical reference to back you up. I’m not taking away from the absolute brilliance of the book - there’s nothing like it. But the scary thing is that people BELIEVE it and base their actions and choices on those beliefs.

162

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:
Matthew 18:6-But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea-is probably the best. Sex outside of marriage is a sin; causing a child to sin(have sex outside of marriage) is not a good thing.[/quote]
first of all nothing in there about age. secondly it seems like you’re saying that if a child has sex inside of marriage it’s ok.[/quote]

When I read “cause…to sin” it leads me to believe that means influencing one to sin. I don’t remember what it was like, but I doubt that prebuscent children are interested in having sex, so any extramarital sex with one would be CAUSING him/her to sin. Why would someone marry a prebuscent child and why would the child’s parents permit it? The child would be unable to produce children. Also, I see no reason to believe that God recognizes homosexual “marriage,” so that eliminates man/boy “marriages” from possibly creating a situation is which sex with a child is okay.

163

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
To complicate matters, the book was translated several times and RE WRITTEN by King James (that’s why they call it “the king james version”) so that he could control the population better and conform to the particular beliefs of the Church of England. Why on earth would you TRUST such an altered and bastardized manuscript?
[/quote]

Another topic…but this is why I have great doubts about the parts of the Bible that seemingly elevate one person or group above others in God’s eyes(Romans 13, for instance). [/quote]

so if you have doubt about parts of the bible how can you know which is true and which is not? are you just picking the parts you like?[/quote]

The BRILLIANCE of the bible is that is written so that one can pretty much say ANYTHING at all, and have a biblical reference to back you up. I’m not taking away from the absolute brilliance of the book - there’s nothing like it. But the scary thing is that people BELIEVE it and base their actions and choices on those beliefs.[/quote]

Well it seems more like they pick and choose what they want to follow. The moment you point something out that they do not do or follow they say it wasn’t meant to be taken literally or that it is being taken out of context. and of course when asked to explain the context they disappear.

164

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:
Matthew 18:6-But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea-is probably the best. Sex outside of marriage is a sin; causing a child to sin(have sex outside of marriage) is not a good thing.[/quote]
first of all nothing in there about age. secondly it seems like you’re saying that if a child has sex inside of marriage it’s ok.[/quote]

When I read “cause…to sin” it leads me to believe that means influencing one to sin. I don’t remember what it was like, but I doubt that prebuscent children are interested in having sex, so any extramarital sex with one would be CAUSING him/her to sin. Why would someone marry a prebuscent child and why would the child’s parents permit it? The child would be unable to produce children. Also, I see no reason to believe that God recognizes homosexual “marriage,” so that eliminates man/boy “marriages” from possibly creating a situation is which sex with a child is okay.[/quote]

so as soon as a girl can produce children then it’s ok for her to marry?

165

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
To complicate matters, the book was translated several times and RE WRITTEN by King James (that’s why they call it “the king james version”) so that he could control the population better and conform to the particular beliefs of the Church of England. Why on earth would you TRUST such an altered and bastardized manuscript?
[/quote]

Another topic…but this is why I have great doubts about the parts of the Bible that seemingly elevate one person or group above others in God’s eyes(Romans 13, for instance). [/quote]

so if you have doubt about parts of the bible how can you know which is true and which is not? are you just picking the parts you like?[/quote]

I can’t, but I have much more faith in the parts that don’t seem to contradict the first commandment. No.

166

[quote]hmm87 wrote:
so as soon as a girl can produce children then it’s ok for her to marry?[/quote]

That’s the way it looks to me.

167

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
To complicate matters, the book was translated several times and RE WRITTEN by King James (that’s why they call it “the king james version”) so that he could control the population better and conform to the particular beliefs of the Church of England. Why on earth would you TRUST such an altered and bastardized manuscript?
[/quote]

Another topic…but this is why I have great doubts about the parts of the Bible that seemingly elevate one person or group above others in God’s eyes(Romans 13, for instance). [/quote]

so if you have doubt about parts of the bible how can you know which is true and which is not? are you just picking the parts you like?[/quote]

The BRILLIANCE of the bible is that is written so that one can pretty much say ANYTHING at all, and have a biblical reference to back you up. I’m not taking away from the absolute brilliance of the book - there’s nothing like it. But the scary thing is that people BELIEVE it and base their actions and choices on those beliefs.[/quote]

Well it seems more like they pick and choose what they want to follow. The moment you point something out that they do not do or follow they say it wasn’t meant to be taken literally or that it is being taken out of context. and of course when asked to explain the context they disappear. [/quote]

My personal favorite is how they dismiss the old testament as “that’s the one we don’t follow anymore”.

But when I ask, “well is the god in the old testament the same god in the new testament?” the answer is “yes”.

Then they get VERY uncomfortable when I point out some of the things that “GOD” ordered in the old testament… They are essentially following the teachings of an absolute psychopath.

But it was just a test of faith.

I can think of a few other ways to test faith, other than killing kids.

And then the muther fucker has the balls to tell you not to “lead children into sin”.

So basically, according to “GOD”, it’s perfectly fine for HIM to kill children and order “HIS CHOSEN” to kill children, but it’s not cool if YOU talk a child out of following christianity.

I bet he misses the good old days of the old testament when he could just give someone a vision and have them stone you.

How do you people believe this fucking non sense?

168

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
To complicate matters, the book was translated several times and RE WRITTEN by King James (that’s why they call it “the king james version”) so that he could control the population better and conform to the particular beliefs of the Church of England. Why on earth would you TRUST such an altered and bastardized manuscript?
[/quote]

Another topic…but this is why I have great doubts about the parts of the Bible that seemingly elevate one person or group above others in God’s eyes(Romans 13, for instance). [/quote]

so if you have doubt about parts of the bible how can you know which is true and which is not? are you just picking the parts you like?[/quote]

I can’t, but I have much more faith in the parts that don’t seem to contradict the first commandment. No.[/quote]

so then you are picking and choosing what you like

169

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
To complicate matters, the book was translated several times and RE WRITTEN by King James (that’s why they call it “the king james version”) so that he could control the population better and conform to the particular beliefs of the Church of England. Why on earth would you TRUST such an altered and bastardized manuscript?
[/quote]

Another topic…but this is why I have great doubts about the parts of the Bible that seemingly elevate one person or group above others in God’s eyes(Romans 13, for instance). [/quote]

so if you have doubt about parts of the bible how can you know which is true and which is not? are you just picking the parts you like?[/quote]

The BRILLIANCE of the bible is that is written so that one can pretty much say ANYTHING at all, and have a biblical reference to back you up. I’m not taking away from the absolute brilliance of the book - there’s nothing like it. But the scary thing is that people BELIEVE it and base their actions and choices on those beliefs.[/quote]

Well it seems more like they pick and choose what they want to follow. The moment you point something out that they do not do or follow they say it wasn’t meant to be taken literally or that it is being taken out of context. and of course when asked to explain the context they disappear. [/quote]

My personal favorite is how they dismiss the old testament as “that’s the one we don’t follow anymore”.

But when I ask, “well is the god in the old testament the same god in the new testament?” the answer is “yes”.

Then they get VERY uncomfortable when I point out some of the things that “GOD” ordered in the old testament… They are essentially following the teachings of an absolute psychopath.

But it was just a test of faith.

I can think of a few other ways to test faith, other than killing kids.

And then the muther fucker has the balls to tell you not to “lead children into sin”.

So basically, according to “GOD”, it’s perfectly fine for HIM to kill children and order “HIS CHOSEN” to kill children, but it’s not cool if YOU talk a child out of following christianity.

I bet he misses the good old days of the old testament when he could just give someone a vision and have them stone you.

How do you people believe this fucking non sense?[/quote]

I agree with you on everything here. They always have a way to justify something even if it contradicts something else. the thing is they don’t seem to care. no matter how much you point out these issues they will still blindly follow.

170

It should be noted that this discussion has been underway for the better part of an hour and there are NO CHRISTIANS jumping in to answer any of these challenges.

What’s wrong, cat got your tongue?

Or could it be that you feel safer burying your head in the sand because you can’t defend the actions of YOUR “god”?

“I’m not going to have a debate with a BIGOT like you who OBVIOUSLY hates Christians”…

That one is getting kinda old. TRANSLATION:

“I don’t want to confront the dark side of christianity because it challenges my belief system and I’m too much of a coward to do that - that’s why I’m a member of a flock, because I’m a fucking SHEEP. I do what I’m told and I believe EVERYTHING I was taught, cuz I’m a GOOOOOOD CHRISTIAN!”

And you WONDER why King James translated the bible! You couldn’t ASK for a more perfect devise to control a population!

171

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
To complicate matters, the book was translated several times and RE WRITTEN by King James (that’s why they call it “the king james version”) so that he could control the population better and conform to the particular beliefs of the Church of England. Why on earth would you TRUST such an altered and bastardized manuscript?
[/quote]

Another topic…but this is why I have great doubts about the parts of the Bible that seemingly elevate one person or group above others in God’s eyes(Romans 13, for instance). [/quote]

so if you have doubt about parts of the bible how can you know which is true and which is not? are you just picking the parts you like?[/quote]

The BRILLIANCE of the bible is that is written so that one can pretty much say ANYTHING at all, and have a biblical reference to back you up. I’m not taking away from the absolute brilliance of the book - there’s nothing like it. But the scary thing is that people BELIEVE it and base their actions and choices on those beliefs.[/quote]

Well it seems more like they pick and choose what they want to follow. The moment you point something out that they do not do or follow they say it wasn’t meant to be taken literally or that it is being taken out of context. and of course when asked to explain the context they disappear. [/quote]

My personal favorite is how they dismiss the old testament as “that’s the one we don’t follow anymore”.

But when I ask, “well is the god in the old testament the same god in the new testament?” the answer is “yes”.

Then they get VERY uncomfortable when I point out some of the things that “GOD” ordered in the old testament… They are essentially following the teachings of an absolute psychopath.

But it was just a test of faith.

I can think of a few other ways to test faith, other than killing kids.

And then the muther fucker has the balls to tell you not to “lead children into sin”.

So basically, according to “GOD”, it’s perfectly fine for HIM to kill children and order “HIS CHOSEN” to kill children, but it’s not cool if YOU talk a child out of following christianity.

I bet he misses the good old days of the old testament when he could just give someone a vision and have them stone you.

How do you people believe this fucking non sense?[/quote]

I agree with you on everything here. They always have a way to justify something even if it contradicts something else. the thing is they don’t seem to care. no matter how much you point out these issues they will still blindly follow.[/quote]

They call themselves members of a “flock” for a reason.

172

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Then they get VERY uncomfortable when I point out some of the things that “GOD” ordered in the old testament… They are essentially following the teachings of an absolute psychopath.
[/quote]

I don’t know why this makes a believer uncomfortable. If one believes that God created everything, then what he ordered was good. God is the sole arbiter of right and wrong. What was ordered in the Old Testament was good. If one believes that Jesus is the son of God and sent by God to do his work, then what Jesus ordered is the most recent word of God and good.

173

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Then they get VERY uncomfortable when I point out some of the things that “GOD” ordered in the old testament… They are essentially following the teachings of an absolute psychopath.
[/quote]

I don’t know why this makes a believer uncomfortable. If one believes that God created everything, then what he ordered was good. God is the sole arbiter of right and wrong. What was ordered in the Old Testament was good. If one believes that Jesus is the son of God and sent by God to do his work, then what Jesus ordered is the most recent word of God and good. [/quote]

But you said you have your doubts about certain parts. so you can’t for sure know what god really ordered.

174

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:
so if you have doubt about parts of the bible how can you know which is true and which is not? are you just picking the parts you like?[/quote]

I can’t, but I have much more faith in the parts that don’t seem to contradict the first commandment. No.[/quote]

so then you are picking and choosing what you like[/quote]

Actually, I’m not sure how much is actually contradictory. I usually have more of a problem with what we are TAUGHT that certain verses mean, and it’s my fault for not specifying that. Many teach that to honor one’s father and mother pretty much means that one is supposed to treat one’s parents as if they are gods. I disagree. Many teach that “render unto Caesar…” means that the government is allowed to take whatever it wants. I disagree. Everything is God’s.

175

[quote]hmm87 wrote:
But you said you have your doubts about certain parts. so you can’t for sure know what god really ordered.
[/quote]

See my above response, and it’s called faith for a reason.

176

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:
But you said you have your doubts about certain parts. so you can’t for sure know what god really ordered.
[/quote]

See my above response, and it’s called faith for a reason.[/quote]

You said you had less faith in parts that you felt contradicted the first commandment. so right here you’re admitting to picking and choosing. if you have faith in god and the bible why not have faith in all of it? you said it yourself that god can do no wrong so these contradictions should be perfectly fine if you have faith. but yet you still have doubts.

177

Gotta go, but I’ll be back tomorrow.

178

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
It should be noted that this discussion has been underway for the better part of an hour and there are NO CHRISTIANS jumping in to answer any of these challenges.

What’s wrong, cat got your tongue?

Or could it be that you feel safer burying your head in the sand because you can’t defend the actions of YOUR “god”?

“I’m not going to have a debate with a BIGOT like you who OBVIOUSLY hates Christians”…

That one is getting kinda old. TRANSLATION:

“I don’t want to confront the dark side of christianity because it challenges my belief system and I’m too much of a coward to do that - that’s why I’m a member of a flock, because I’m a fucking SHEEP. I do what I’m told and I believe EVERYTHING I was taught, cuz I’m a GOOOOOOD CHRISTIAN!”

And you WONDER why King James translated the bible! You couldn’t ASK for a more perfect devise to control a population![/quote]

Will reply later. Got bills to pay, life to attend to. Lol

179

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:
But you said you have your doubts about certain parts. so you can’t for sure know what god really ordered.
[/quote]

See my above response, and it’s called faith for a reason.[/quote]

You said you had less faith in parts that you felt contradicted the first commandment. so right here you’re admitting to picking and choosing. if you have faith in god and the bible why not have faith in all of it? you said it yourself that god can do no wrong so these contradictions should be perfectly fine if you have faith. but yet you still have doubts.[/quote]

Did you read the response to which I referred you? I clarified my position and said that the Bible itself is not contradictory-human interpretation is.

180

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
To complicate matters, the book was translated several times and RE WRITTEN by King James (that’s why they call it “the king james version”) so that he could control the population better and conform to the particular beliefs of the Church of England. Why on earth would you TRUST such an altered and bastardized manuscript?
[/quote]

Another topic…but this is why I have great doubts about the parts of the Bible that seemingly elevate one person or group above others in God’s eyes(Romans 13, for instance). [/quote]

so if you have doubt about parts of the bible how can you know which is true and which is not? are you just picking the parts you like?[/quote]

The BRILLIANCE of the bible is that is written so that one can pretty much say ANYTHING at all, and have a biblical reference to back you up. I’m not taking away from the absolute brilliance of the book - there’s nothing like it. But the scary thing is that people BELIEVE it and base their actions and choices on those beliefs.[/quote]

Well it seems more like they pick and choose what they want to follow. The moment you point something out that they do not do or follow they say it wasn’t meant to be taken literally or that it is being taken out of context. and of course when asked to explain the context they disappear. [/quote]

Sorry, gotta work.