Seek help lads.
[quote]kamui wrote:
I will keep calling myself an heterosexual. It’s shorter. And it will make things easier for every T-Nationers who already confessed a man crush for me.
Otherwise, they would be forced to use a “no homo” mention in their replies.
[/quote]
Lol!
.
.
…no homo.
[quote]ironcross wrote:
I have already told you that I have a guy friend who has achieved orgasm with a man, not liked it, and never messed around with a guy again.[/quote]
That is ridiculous on so many levels that it’s difficult to figure out where to jump in. Let’s just call your friend what he is and be done with it he’s a bisexual who prefers women. End of story.
I agree, it means that they’re bisexual.
Yeah Hollywood does portray that huh? Now go dig up the statistics to back it up. Oops!
I think you might be the one with the “hole” problem. What you want to be true and what IS actually true are two different things. For thousands of years this is how it played out. You are either heterosexual, sex with only those of the opposite sex. Homosexual sex with with mostly those of the same sex. And bisexual sex with either sex. If you think that someone can achieve orgasm with another of the same sex without being either bisexual or homosexual then you have a the problem my friend. You want to rewrite the history of sex research over the past 60 years? LOL-- Stop fooling myself.
Hey good point you just made, and thank you for proving my point. You walked right into it didn’t you? You claim on the one had that purely heterosexual men can have sex with another man–Yet on the other hand you now claim that homosexual men cannot have sex with women, in fact even the thought of it makes them gag.
You’re proving yourself to be yet another liberal pc boy. And I’m not surprised this is T Nation PWI after all.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]ironcross wrote:
I have already told you that I have a guy friend who has achieved orgasm with a man, not liked it, and never messed around with a guy again.[/quote]
That is ridiculous on so many levels that it’s difficult to figure out where to jump in. Let’s just call your friend what he is and be done with it he’s a bisexual who prefers women. End of story.
I agree, it means that they’re bisexual.
Yeah Hollywood does portray that huh? Now go dig up the statistics to back it up. Oops!
I think you might be the one with the “hole” problem. What you want to be true and what IS actually true are two different things. For thousands of years this is how it played out. You are either heterosexual, sex with only those of the opposite sex. Homosexual sex with with mostly those of the same sex. And bisexual sex with either sex. If you think that someone can achieve orgasm with another of the same sex without being either bisexual or homosexual then you have a the problem my friend. You want to rewrite the history of sex research over the past 60 years? LOL-- Stop fooling myself.
Hey good point you just made, and thank you for proving my point. You walked right into it didn’t you? You claim on the one had that purely heterosexual men can have sex with another man–Yet on the other hand you now claim that homosexual men cannot have sex with women, in fact even the thought of it makes them gag.
You’re proving yourself to be yet another liberal pc boy. And I’m not surprised this is T Nation PWI after all.
[/quote]
It’s possible to have sex with someone who makes you gag. I am saying some have done it and then stop doing it once they come out. It’s like having sex with a person who’s very unattractive to you because you don’t feel like you have another option.
Now where are your statistics showing that the majority of gay men have sex with women after coming out of the closet. I like how you totally ignored my request for those.
[quote]ironcross wrote:
It’s possible to have sex with someone who makes you gag. I am saying some have done it and then stop doing it once they come out. It’s like having sex with a person who’s very unattractive to you because you don’t feel like you have another option.[/quote]
No, not quite even if the guy is pretending to be a woman make up the whole words when the foreplay begins and you reach down and come up with a handful of balls that is the end of the game! And if for some reason that is not a turn off to you, you are bisexual at best and homosexual at worst. Heterosexual males are NOT aroused by another mans penis — Um…YUCK!Why in the hell would any self respecting man (hetero) want to actually touch another mans balls? Much less become aroused while doing it? SHEESH that’s nuts (no pun intended).
I’ll show you those statistics when you can back up your ridiculous claims that purely heterosexual men have sex with other men all the time. It happened to your “friend” therefore it happens to every one. LOL–Try again.
I’m waiting, and if Masters and Johnson are reading this they’re waiting too. You made one very dumb ass claim and now it’s time to back it up or shut up.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]ironcross wrote:
It’s possible to have sex with someone who makes you gag. I am saying some have done it and then stop doing it once they come out. It’s like having sex with a person who’s very unattractive to you because you don’t feel like you have another option.[/quote]
No, not quite even if the guy is pretending to be a woman make up the whole words when the foreplay begins and you reach down and come up with a handful of balls that is the end of the game! And if for some reason that is not a turn off to you, you are bisexual at best and homosexual at worst. Heterosexual males are NOT aroused by another mans penis — Um…YUCK!Why in the hell would any self respecting man (hetero) want to actually touch another mans balls? Much less become aroused while doing it? SHEESH that’s nuts (no pun intended).
I’ll show you those statistics when you can back up your ridiculous claims that purely heterosexual men have sex with other men all the time. It happened to your “friend” therefore it happens to every one. LOL–Try again.
I’m waiting, and if Masters and Johnson are reading this they’re waiting too. You made one very dumb ass claim and now it’s time to back it up or shut up. [/quote]
First of all, now that you’ve come up blank when asked for evidence twice on ab absurd claim to begin with (that homosexual men continue to have sex with women after coming out of the closet) I’m going to call BS. That’s just fair play.
Secondly, here are some studies backing up what I’ve said about homosexual men being aroused to men: “Using a sensor to monitor sexual arousal, the researchers found what they expected: gay men showed arousal to images of men and little arousal to images of women, and heterosexual men showed arousal to women and not men…” Rising Up - Joe Perez - Google Books
Plus, sexual arousal is an entirely different story for women:
“Sexual arousal is category-specific in men; heterosexual men are more aroused by female than by male sexual stimuli, whereas homosexual men show the opposite pattern. There is reason to believe that female sexual arousal is organized differently. We assessed genital and subjective sexual arousal to male and female sexual stimuli in women, men, and postoperative male-to-female transsexuals. In contrast to men, women showed little category specificity on either the genital or the subjective measure. Both heterosexual and homosexual women experienced strong genital arousal to both male and female sexual stimuli.” http://pss.sagepub.com/content/15/11/736.short
And here’s a little bit on straight men in the gay porn industry:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/g4331n0566048l15/
Once again, bodies are able to orgasm to many things. Hands, pressure by mouths, pressure from different parts of the body. You give yourself this pressure on a regular basis but your hand isn’t what turns you on. In the same way, it is possible and has happened many times (just research it yourself or get to know more experimental people than are currently in your social circle) that straight people have sex with other straight people, come, but don’t repeat the experience. Gay men and women also have sex with opposite sex partners, but you will find in all cases, they struggle with arousal. The first study I pointed out used electronic monitoring of the blood flow, temperature, and moisture of the genitals to prove that gay men are very aroused by pictures of men, whereas heterosexuals are not. What more proof do you need that there is a physical difference there?
Groo and ironcross: it’ll be impossible to pound some sense into the skulls of these übermanly men since any kind of insinuation that other not-gay men might enjoy gay sex BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT REPRESSED INDIVIDUALS is unacceptable to them.
It’s not enough to suggest that these manly men are closet-gays themselves, or that they deny these feelings or attractions inspite of their heterosexuality; it’s a problem of society.
Even in a gay-minded city like Amsterdam, gaybashing incidents cause serious problems for the gay community. More often than not these incidents are caused by young moroccans who, by definition, are staunch anti-gay.
Posturing and peer pressure are the real problems, and the homophobes on PWI are prime examples of them.
[quote]ironcross wrote:
First of all, now that you’ve come up blank when asked for evidence twice on ab absurd claim to begin with (that homosexual men continue to have sex with women after coming out of the closet) I’m going to call BS. That’s just fair play.[/quote]
As I said when you give me quality evidence which proves that heterosexual men have sex with other men then I’ll show you my evidence on homosexuals. What you’ve given me so far (including this post) basically backs up what I’ve said about heterosexual men NOT being aroused by other men. (At this point I feel like I’m teaching 6th grade sex ed to a special student–Ha)
Um…well yeah I would imagine that all homosexual men are aroused by other men. Nothing earth shattering about that.
And that is exactly what I said. Gee, thanks for pointing that out. I don’t have to post back to you any more you continue to prove all of my points.
[quote]
And here’s a little bit on straight men in the gay porn industry:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/g4331n0566048l15/[/quote]
To prove your original point you give me a link about men in the porn industry? Like they’re the typical straight male? Yeah…Oooookay. I was expecting studies that proved what you’ve been yammering about all over the thread. You know your allegedly straight “friend” had sex with a man but really didn’t like it which proves conclusively (in your mind at least) that all heterosexual men are able to have sex with other men.
And to prove that you give me a link about males in the porn industry.
LMAO!!
True, but heterosexual men are not aroused by other men. And that is a FACT! Do some reading from the original authors of sexual research Masters and Johnson and stop pretending that you know what you’re talking about, I can assure that you DO NOT!
Psst…when that happens they’re not straight they’re either homosexual or bisexual by definition.
Thank you once again for proving my point. That is heterosexual men are NOT aroused by other men. But are in fact aroused by women.
You know you’ve done such a good job of shooting down your own point I may not have to post again. But I will if you’d like.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Groo and ironcross: it’ll be impossible to pound some sense into the skulls of these übermanly men since any kind of insinuation that other not-gay men might enjoy gay sex BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT REPRESSED INDIVIDUALS is unacceptable to them.
It’s not enough to suggest that these manly men are closet-gays themselves, or that they deny these feelings or attractions inspite of their heterosexuality; it’s a problem of society.
Even in a gay-minded city like Amsterdam, gaybashing incidents cause serious problems for the gay community. More often than not these incidents are caused by young moroccans who, by definition, are staunch anti-gay.
Posturing and peer pressure are the real problems, and the homophobes on PWI are prime examples of them.[/quote]
Either that or you’re a politically correct douche bag who wants to accept the latest PC crap as truth.
And I know which one it is 
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]ironcross wrote:
First of all, now that you’ve come up blank when asked for evidence twice on ab absurd claim to begin with (that homosexual men continue to have sex with women after coming out of the closet) I’m going to call BS. That’s just fair play.[/quote]
As I said when you give me quality evidence which proves that heterosexual men have sex with other men then I’ll show you my evidence on homosexuals. What you’ve given me so far (including this post) basically backs up what I’ve said about heterosexual men NOT being aroused by other men. (At this point I feel like I’m teaching 6th grade sex ed to a special student–Ha)
Um…well yeah I would imagine that all homosexual men are aroused by other men. Nothing earth shattering about that.
And that is exactly what I said. Gee, thanks for pointing that out. I don’t have to post back to you any more you continue to prove all of my points.
[quote]
And here’s a little bit on straight men in the gay porn industry:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/g4331n0566048l15/[/quote]
To prove your original point you give me a link about men in the porn industry? Like they’re the typical straight male? Yeah…Oooookay. I was expecting studies that proved what you’ve been yammering about all over the thread. You know your allegedly straight “friend” had sex with a man but really didn’t like it which proves conclusively (in your mind at least) that all heterosexual men are able to have sex with other men.
And to prove that you give me a link about males in the porn industry.
LMAO!!
True, but heterosexual men are not aroused by other men. And that is a FACT! Do some reading from the original authors of sexual research Masters and Johnson and stop pretending that you know what you’re talking about, I can assure that you DO NOT!
Psst…when that happens they’re not straight they’re either homosexual or bisexual by definition.
Thank you once again for proving my point. That is heterosexual men are NOT aroused by other men. But are in fact aroused by women.
You know you’ve done such a good job of shooting down your own point I may not have to post again. But I will if you’d like.[/quote]
Ephram is probably right about you…but regardless, when did I say that gay men are aroused by women or straight men are aroused by gay men? I said they were capable of orgasm: that is NOT the same thing as aroused. I know many straight people who have achieved orgasm with large number of people and objects they didn’t get aroused by looking at, instead they focused on the feeling and thought about someting that did arouse them. When I say arousal, I am talking about visually. When you say arousal, you’re simply talking about the ability to orgasm while touching. Do you realize that we are talking about two different things?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Groo and ironcross: it’ll be impossible to pound some sense into the skulls of these Ã?¼bermanly men since any kind of insinuation that other not-gay men might enjoy gay sex BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT REPRESSED INDIVIDUALS is unacceptable to them.
It’s not enough to suggest that these manly men are closet-gays themselves, or that they deny these feelings or attractions inspite of their heterosexuality; it’s a problem of society.
Even in a gay-minded city like Amsterdam, gaybashing incidents cause serious problems for the gay community. More often than not these incidents are caused by young moroccans who, by definition, are staunch anti-gay.
Posturing and peer pressure are the real problems, and the homophobes on PWI are prime examples of them.[/quote]
Either that or you’re a politically correct douche bag who wants to accept the latest PC crap as truth.
And I know which one it is ;)[/quote]
How many gay friend have you had in your entire life? How much time have you spent talking about sex with a gay male?
Lol. I have a large number of gay friends and I can tell you our conversations are nowhere near politically correct. You would porbably feel raped after listening to one.
When I say you need to get out of your hole, I mean you need to start making friends with as many of the people you say you understand as possible. Go do things with them, listen to them, party with them, be a part of their lives. Then talk.
[quote]ironcross wrote:
Ephram is probably right about you…[/quote]
LOL an atheist from Holland doesn’t agree with me OH NO WHAT WILL I DO? If for some reason I did agree with him on much of anything I know I’d be going down the wrong road.
[quote]ironcross wrote:
How many gay friend have you had in your entire life? How much time have you spent talking about sex with a gay male?
Lol. I have a large number of gay friends and I can tell you our conversations are nowhere near politically correct. You would porbably feel raped after listening to one.
When I say you need to get out of your hole, I mean you need to start making friends with as many of the people you say you understand as possible. Go do things with them, listen to them, party with them, be a part of their lives. Then talk.[/quote]
This has nothing to do with how many gay people either of us know. It’s about the reality of the situation. Before you start trying to rewrite human sexuality because of some anecdotal evidence from your strange “friend” you should pick up some books and do some research.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]ironcross wrote:
How many gay friend have you had in your entire life? How much time have you spent talking about sex with a gay male?
Lol. I have a large number of gay friends and I can tell you our conversations are nowhere near politically correct. You would porbably feel raped after listening to one.
When I say you need to get out of your hole, I mean you need to start making friends with as many of the people you say you understand as possible. Go do things with them, listen to them, party with them, be a part of their lives. Then talk.[/quote]
This has nothing to do with how many gay people either of us know. It’s about the reality of the situation. Before you start trying to rewrite human sexuality because of some anecdotal evidence from your strange “friend” you should pick up some books and do some research. [/quote]
In our discussion I have posted numerous links to books and peer reviewed articles in addition to vast experience living among and being friends with people of every sexual identity, including transgender and assexual. You just avoided answering my question redpgarding whether or not you were aware that we were defining arousal differently and instead focused on saying that I should read more books.
So far we have no evidence that you’ve read one book, while I have clearly read a couple even just during this conversation. You have some catching up or backing out to do.
[quote]ironcross wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]ironcross wrote:
How many gay friend have you had in your entire life? How much time have you spent talking about sex with a gay male?
Lol. I have a large number of gay friends and I can tell you our conversations are nowhere near politically correct. You would porbably feel raped after listening to one.
When I say you need to get out of your hole, I mean you need to start making friends with as many of the people you say you understand as possible. Go do things with them, listen to them, party with them, be a part of their lives. Then talk.[/quote]
This has nothing to do with how many gay people either of us know. It’s about the reality of the situation. Before you start trying to rewrite human sexuality because of some anecdotal evidence from your strange “friend” you should pick up some books and do some research. [/quote]
In our discussion I have posted numerous links to books and peer reviewed articles in addition to vast experience living among and being friends with people of every sexual identity, including transgender and assexual. You just avoided answering my question redpgarding whether or not you were aware that we were defining arousal differently and instead focused on saying that I should read more books.
[/quote]
LOL you nut all of your links prove my point not yours. Ha ha sheesh…
Okay zeb, this is my last try: do you understand that during this conversation you have been refering to arousal as the ability to orgasm while touching something and I have been refering to it as what can visually stimulate a person, and do you understand how these are different?
[quote]ironcross wrote:
Okay zeb, this is my last try: do you understand that during this conversation you have been refering to arousal as the ability to orgasm while touching something and I have been refering to it as what can visually stimulate a person, and do you understand how these are different?[/quote]
Do you really promise that this is the last time that I have to read one of your nonsense posts on heterosexual men loving sex with other men?
And I understood what you meant from the beginning and it changes nothing.
Take care,
Zeb
Zeb- what do I mean? In your words?
[quote]ironcross wrote:
Zeb- what do I mean? In your words?[/quote]
LOL!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]ironcross wrote:
Zeb- what do I mean? In your words?[/quote]
LOL!
[/quote]
It’s pretty clear from your response “you think straight men love having sex with men” that you really aren’t grasping the difference in the types of arousal we’re using in conversation that I pointed out above. I asked you to explain what I’m saying in your own words so I can determine for sure whether or not you do understand it. Saying “yeah Ironcross, I get it” in the same response where you wrote that I meant straight men enjoy sex with men, clearly sows tha you don’t. In order to see where the misunderstanding was happening, I’d need to hear you say exactly what you interpretted as my meaning.