[quote]consumer wrote:
lets get some things straight.
you do not need to hit the boiling point of water to actually cause it to vaporize. I did the calculation with water vaporizing at 37 degrees, note the .52*63 correction for this fact.
Yes some latent energy in the atmosphere will contribute to the vaporization of the water, but a huge deal will come from your body. Did you know that on a hot hot sunny summers day you can actually get hypothermia when you come out of the pool?
the rapidly evaporating water pulls so much heat off your body so fast it can make you go hypothermic- this is fact.
This method exploits the heat of vaporization of water, which like i said, is 539 times higher than just heating the water to warmer water - i.e. drinking icecold water sucks because you don’t vaporize it.
actually someone made a good point, the added effect of being cold would probably psychologically trigger you to bulk - like in the winter time have you ever noticed you eat more and are hungrier as well?
discuss.[/quote]
First, where exactly did the calculations come from? The 63 and .52? I understand that evaporation can take place at temperatures under the boiling point as water can have a vapor pressure of less that atmospheric pressure and still “escape” from a system like the skin.
On the absolute scale, the latent heat in the air is pretty high-considering convection, relative to the heat given to the water by the body.
Note that if you get a 1 degree decrease in body temperature, the metabolic rate drops about 10% as well.
Anyway, this might actually work, but I think the protocol would be to just go to the swimming pool, get wet, and dry off in the air 10-15 times. Maybe that’s why blacks are so lean???
if you do a thermodynamic cycle to figure out how much energy is required to create 37 C water vapor.
you do the following calculation
(100C-37C)1cal/gm/degC this is the energy required to raise the water to the BP + 539 cal/gm(heat of vaporization) +(37C-100C).48cal/gm/degCthis is the amount of heat lost when 100Cwater vapor is cooled to 37C)
basically this just condenses to
539 + (100C-37C)(1-.48)this is the change in heat capacity going from water to vapor). 1-.48 is .52
so 63.52 is the correct factor. Its really a minor detail as it only contributes about 5%, but i’m anal.
you don’t need to actually have the water go through that cycle, but thats the minimum energy required to vaporize water at 37C.
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
vroom wrote:
mertdawg wrote:
Mercury does not adhere to the body.
Idiots!
Ha! Of all the people to pick on, the funny sarcastic one probably isn’t it…
That was kind of the point-twisted I know!
[/quote]
I know, I got it, but I chose mercury for its harmfull side effects and convenient liquid state at room temprature, allthough it could easily be argued that spraying yourself with steel or aluminum in a liquid state would be more harmfull, And require more calories to vaporize.
Then again, with that much heat, you might absorb a bunch of calories and get realy fat.
Yeah,but most obese people wouldn’t be thin even if it were true because most obese people don’t drink much,if any,water.
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
I don’t buy the 50 calorie statistic at all. I do think you burn some calories heating up very cold water. But 50 calories must be a gross exagerration. Fat loss would be the easiest thing in the world if it were true.
How many obese people drink cold water?
It’s usually soda,or diet soda.
I don’t know about obese people. But I drink cold water all the time. I don’t think it’s causing me to burn hundreds of extra calories.
[quote]consumer wrote:
if you do a thermodynamic cycle to figure out how much energy is required to create 37 C water vapor.
you do the following calculation
(100C-37C)1cal/gm/degC this is the energy required to raise the water to the BP + 539 cal/gm(heat of vaporization) +(37C-100C).48cal/gm/degCthis is the amount of heat lost when 100Cwater vapor is cooled to 37C)
basically this just condenses to
539 + (100C-37C)(1-.48)this is the change in heat capacity going from water to vapor). 1-.48 is .52
so 63.52 is the correct factor. Its really a minor detail as it only contributes about 5%, but i’m anal.
you don’t need to actually have the water go through that cycle, but thats the minimum energy required to vaporize water at 37C. [/quote]
But the water vapor particles which escape from a 37 deg person will be at around 100 degrees when they escape-because the 37 degrees is actually the average of many water molecules with a distribution of temperatures. At any given time, a fraction of a percent are at 100 degrees.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
t-ha wrote:
so basically you want to burn calories by making yourself colder? Take off your sweater & turn the heating down.
Why are there fat eskimos if this works?[/quote]
Coz all the thin eskimos are DEAD.
And these guys would be REALLY fat if they lived in a warm climate. And still ate the all meat/blubber diet. Which ironically is better for you than the typical american diet.
Drink cold water to lose fat? Yes you burn more colories to heat up, but you also eat more junk food to keep it up. simple theories like this are a waste of time when people just change their behaviour to get back to their fat state of being. Drinking cold water everyday might burn fat off if everything else stays the same-but that never happens.
[quote]DarrenUA wrote:
cant remember the exact number, but I have read that if you drink a gallon of ice water you would burn off about ten pounds in a year because of the effect of your body having to heat the water up to your temperature.[/quote]
I’ve been testing this theory for a while now. However, I have been using beer. My thought it, if i get my beer cold enough, I may actually lose weight by drinking it.
I havent got it to that magic temperature yet, but im not going to give up!
[quote]consumer wrote:
lets get some things straight.
you do not need to hit the boiling point of water to actually cause it to vaporize. I did the calculation with water vaporizing at 37 degrees, note the .52*63 correction for this fact.
Yes some latent energy in the atmosphere will contribute to the vaporization of the water, but a huge deal will come from your body. Did you know that on a hot hot sunny summers day you can actually get hypothermia when you come out of the pool?
the rapidly evaporating water pulls so much heat off your body so fast it can make you go hypothermic- this is fact.
This method exploits the heat of vaporization of water, which like i said, is 539 times higher than just heating the water to warmer water - i.e. drinking icecold water sucks because you don’t vaporize it.
actually someone made a good point, the added effect of being cold would probably psychologically trigger you to bulk - like in the winter time have you ever noticed you eat more and are hungrier as well?
discuss.[/quote]
Fair enough. I was just making fun of your general point (which I’ll get to in a second), and I thought it was a hilarious image.
You tried to argue that because the heat of vaporization of water is so high, you could use the energy required to vaporize water to increase your energy expenditure. If true, why not raise all water to the point at which any additional heat will cause it to vaporize (as opposed to just raise its temperature)? That’ll cause you to burn more calories, no?
Of course, the whole point is stupid. That’s like saying a larger gas tank will allow you to drive further. It’s true, of course, IF you have more gas. Similarly, the heat of vaporization will cause you to burn more calories, but only IF you already expend that much energy. But there’s no way to “use” the heat of vaporization without already generating excess heat. And then it’s whatever you do to generate excess heat that’s helping you, not the heat of vaporization.
The “too cold” idea, on the other hand, has some merit. Your body likes maintain a certain temperature. If it’s below that temperature, it’ll have to spend energy to generate heat. When you shiver, you’re expending energy that you otherwise would not have to increase body temperature. Note that the beneficial effect comes from forcing your body to expend excess energy, NOT the “heat of fusion” of the water (if you ingest ice cubes).*
How helpful this effect actually is, I have no idea.
EDIT: On second thought, a high heat of fusion does help you here, but only because body has to maintain its core body temperature, which is above freezing. I seriously doubt that your body has to go through the heat of vaporization, since that would imply that some part of your body is naturally over 100 degrees Celsius.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Actually I read somewhere that 8oz of freezing cold water (literally 0 degrees celsius) burns about 50 calories when it’s drank. So a half-gallon of freezing water would burn an extra 400 calories a day.
I actually have tried to implement this. Fuck cardio, I’ll just take some H2O.[/quote]
I believe the point at which water completely freezes is -4*C
I don’t know what obese people have to do with this approach actually burning the supposed amount of calories it is said it does. I don’t have too much of a problem losing fat when it is my goal, but like I said, I’m not burning hundreds of extra calories from drinking a lot of cups of very cold water. Therefore, I think that 50 calorie statistic for 8 ounces of cold water is significantly inflated.
[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
Yeah,but most obese people wouldn’t be thin even if it were true because most obese people don’t drink much,if any,water.
jsbrook wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
I don’t buy the 50 calorie statistic at all. I do think you burn some calories heating up very cold water. But 50 calories must be a gross exagerration. Fat loss would be the easiest thing in the world if it were true.
How many obese people drink cold water?
It’s usually soda,or diet soda.
I don’t know about obese people. But I drink cold water all the time. I don’t think it’s causing me to burn hundreds of extra calories.
yes there will be a very small fraction of water molecules that are at 100 degrees centigrade.
But if they immediately absorb that energy to reach 100 centigrade, they must also cool to the surrounding temperature.
This method is not too far fetched, i mean what the hell do you think your sweat glands do? They exploit the heat of vaporization of water to cool yourself off rapidly. If you run when you are wet you get extremely cold, because even though surrounding air is providing a great deal of heat, there is still a huge amount being taken from your skin.
The question you brought up is good though, is it that you are running and the heat is being rapdily absorbed by the water to vaporize. Or is it that air passing over your body increases the rate of vaporization pulling more water off your body? I believe it’s the air, because if you stand in front of a fan when youre wet you freeze to death.
I know that you can just not eat as much. This was meant to be a lame assed discussion. so far it’s great.
[quote]Dave_ wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
Actually I read somewhere that 8oz of freezing cold water (literally 0 degrees celsius) burns about 50 calories when it’s drank. So a half-gallon of freezing water would burn an extra 400 calories a day.
I actually have tried to implement this. Fuck cardio, I’ll just take some H2O.
I believe the point at which water completely freezes is -4*C
[/quote]
No, its not, but I think its where ice is denser than water and will sink.
[quote]Kliplemet wrote:
Professor X wrote:
t-ha wrote:
so basically you want to burn calories by making yourself colder? Take off your sweater & turn the heating down.
The idea Dan had was taken from Charles Atlas. It causes a temporary increase/spike in testosterone. It also stimulates the adrenals.
Heres the protocol:
Take your shower; at the very end, turn off the hot water and allow the cold water to hit you just below the collarbone, where it will run down to the groing. 3-10 seconds and your done!
I have been doing this after every shower; I can’t say I have noticed an increase in test (it would only be a small spike anyways, but a spike none the less). However, I am certainly more energized after the shower.
A hot shower can make you sleepy, so this has the opposite effect.
It has also allowed me to cycle my caffiene intake more easily, because I am awake and energized after the shower, and don’t need a coffee to “wake me up”.
Bottom line: It’s easy, amy increase test, and will give you more energy!
Try it!
As far as the ice water goes, it is a great idea. If you could burn an extra 50 calories in a day, by just drinking ice water then you have moved closer to your fat loss goals! Go for it!
[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong (which I probably am), but the energy used for the evaporation of water off the surface of the skin would not be expended by your body, rather through an energy transfer in the atmosphere, because the evaporation of water is the dispersion of the water into the air.
You’re also assuming that the body would use stored fat first to fuel the evaporation process, which is not necessarily the case, no?
A more foolproof idea would be to just boil away the fat through the application of intense heat to the skin. Literally “melting away” the fat.
DB[/quote]
You’re wrong. The heat source would be your body. Air is an insulator, terrible for heat transfer (this is the idea behind down feather comforters and jackets). Also, I heard that a cup of ice water only burns 8 cals. I love it when you guys talk about thermodynamics.
Charles Poliquin has mentioned in Ironman Magazine the idea of ‘chugging’ ice water to speed up the metabolism.
I was just looking, but couldn’t find it.
If I’m not mistaken, I believe there was also reference, or comparison to Ephedra, in that it raises your body temp by a degree, or so.
What all this means…don’t know, but the therory has been discussed and recommended by at least one of Canada’s (and the world’s) leading strength coaches.
What all this means…don’t know, but the therory has been discussed and recommended by at least one of Canada’s (and the world’s) leading strength coaches.[/quote]
I fear for the sanity of certain individuals when the justification for a certain practice becomes, “well, that guy agrees with it”.
[quote]
I fear for the sanity of certain individuals when the justification for a certain practice becomes, “well, that guy agrees with it”.[/quote]
You’re right, Charles Poliquin is just “that guy”. He probably doesn’t even know what he’s talking about anyway.
What we should do is just direct every question straight towards you…since you seem to be proclaiming yourself as the leading expert in the field of…everything.