Full Range of Motion Necessary?

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

Did i say that? lmao! Funny… i remember pointing out the difference between partial ROM movements and the likleyhood of those differences causing a positive training effect.

I can guarantee you barlteby, that it is more productive for everyone, illness and injury aside, to work in the harder ROM than it is the easier ROM.

Not just the Pro’s.

But then if you read my earlier post, you will see that i am a proponent of partials in my own training, after failure of the full ROM.

Confusing isn’t it?

Joe

22

[quote]jdrannin1 wrote:
Bartleby83 wrote:
I dont think that you can compare full ROM to part ROM. Your aim should be to do full ROM, but if you struggle in a part of a motion on an exercise you can surely stronger this part with only train in this ROM section. Its a thing you can build in your training plan but only with this thing i can not imagine that it will get you so strong as with the “normal” method.

But i am surely not so educated to get you the 100% right answer. Just a idea of mine :slight_smile:

If a muscle is forced to contract under a weight, then the whole muscle will get stronger. It’s pretty natural to be weaker in the lower portion of a squat for example, so why be held back and focus on full ROM because some guru said that you had to?

While I dont think you’ll get much from 1/4 reps or even half reps, you still do not need full ROM to develope.[/quote]

I think it’s important to remember that most of the time more that one muscle is crossing the joint you are moving, and, depending on their lengths and insertion points, do the majority of the work at different places in the lift. When you are doing partial ranges, you are usually only working the biggest and strongest muscles. Depending on your goals that’s either good or bad.

23

[quote]Joe Joseph wrote:
Did i say that? lmao! Funny… i remember pointing out the difference between partial ROM movements and the likleyhood of those differences causing a positive training effect.

I can guarantee you barlteby, that it is more productive for everyone, illness and injury aside, to work in the harder ROM than it is the easier ROM.

Not just the Pro’s.

But then if you read my earlier post, you will see that i am a proponent of partials in my own training, after failure of the full ROM.

Confusing isn’t it?

Joe[/quote]

I think i follow you joe! But also to add to whats previously quoted here, wouldn’t you add safety to that list of benefits? I see the usual gym monger struggle to control the weights enough on a DB press to lay down with them, then have a spotter lift the weights up for him to lockout, then he continues with his half reps.

The potiental for hurt or injury here is so much more because the single person cannot adequately control the weight being used by himself. To OP, when you say 90% to 95% on lifts, you are mainly referring to machines? I assume your working for hypertrophy so a couple extra to beat out I dont necesssarily think is a bad thing at all

24

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Who has written this? Who has implied this[/quote]
The quotation marks should be not there because it is nothing i can rely on somebody. That is something i read in german bodybuilding forums in which i wrote and read in former times.

@Joe

This should no answer to your post. I read your post and i understood it. But i need an example for an Pro and Jay Cutler was named in your post.
My post was an answer to the “making up principles of weight training”

Sure my opinion is that Pros train in a different way then i do…because of different aims and preferences. Nevertheless it would bring me forward, maybe.

I know that you guys workout longer and surely harder, but an opinion is an opinion. I write a lot when i think i have to explain myself, but it doesnt mean that i stay in my opinion for 100% and that all things someone posts doesnt count. I think about what you wrote her and try to get it together with my thoughts.

So i hope there is no bad blood here.

25

[quote]HoratioSandoval wrote:
jdrannin1 wrote:
Bartleby83 wrote:
I dont think that you can compare full ROM to part ROM. Your aim should be to do full ROM, but if you struggle in a part of a motion on an exercise you can surely stronger this part with only train in this ROM section. Its a thing you can build in your training plan but only with this thing i can not imagine that it will get you so strong as with the “normal” method.

But i am surely not so educated to get you the 100% right answer. Just a idea of mine :slight_smile:

If a muscle is forced to contract under a weight, then the whole muscle will get stronger. It’s pretty natural to be weaker in the lower portion of a squat for example, so why be held back and focus on full ROM because some guru said that you had to?

While I dont think you’ll get much from 1/4 reps or even half reps, you still do not need full ROM to develope.

I think it’s important to remember that most of the time more that one muscle is crossing the joint you are moving, and, depending on their lengths and insertion points, do the majority of the work at different places in the lift. When you are doing partial ranges, you are usually only working the biggest and strongest muscles. Depending on your goals that’s either good or bad.[/quote]

I’m not sure if I fully understand what you mean. Do you mean something like finishing the last 3 inches of a bench press where the tri’s are baring a lot of the weight? Even bench pressing half way will increase chest and tri mass.

Now, I’m not saying you can bench press half reps and look like Ronnie Coleman. I’m merely responding to those who think it’s “wrong” or think no developement will occur with partial reps.

26

um… no?

27

Bullpup, it was explained to me sort of like this:

You go down until you’re 1" from your chest (incline press). It’s not a question of strength. When you add so much weight that when you reach your limit in range of motion that your chest snaps… that’s when you have a problem. Full range of motion will prevent you from fucking yourself up.

I hope that makes sense.

28

You should ALWAYS train an exercise through a full ROM, or the longest ROM that your flexibilty allows, and then if you want to, do some partial work in ADDITION to your full ROM work, NOT in place of it.

29

[quote]Mr. Strong wrote:
You should ALWAYS train an exercise through a full ROM, or the longest ROM that your flexibilty allows, and then if you want to, do some partial work in ADDITION to your full ROM work, NOT in place of it.
[/quote]

…or not.

30

brilliance.

31

[quote]kroby wrote:
Bullpup, it was explained to me sort of like this:

You go down until you’re 1" from your chest (incline press). It’s not a question of strength. When you add so much weight that when you reach your limit in range of motion that your chest snaps… that’s when you have a problem. Full range of motion will prevent you from fucking yourself up.

I hope that makes sense.[/quote]

I’m a little confused about one thing… you tell me to go ahead and not lower the last 1" of incline presses, then you tell me to do full ROM (which I understand is when the bar touches the chest) so I don’t injure myself.

Personally I don’t plan to do it for all exercises. I find ATG squats far, far more effective than squatting to parallel, for example. I think my back sucks and I’m always quitting because I can’t get the bar to touch my chest anymore when I do rows. I’ll have to break that habit as I’m seeing a correlation here all of a sudden.

32

It is a personal thing… I like ATG squats for the same reason… (although i am now having to add extra sessions to work on my form alone!)

For chest, i have healthy shoulders and a wide/thick ribcage AND i am short, (restricted ROM) so i lower to my chest with no problems. In all honesty i see more growth from doing so. If injury or the potential for injury stops that or you get nothing extra from it, dont bother… Plus sometimes you could do limited ROM presses to pile on the weight. Floor presses anyone (Mr Strong)?

As for the back, if it is all form you are after, then stopping where you do is fine and i believe Chad Waterbury would do something similar (I hate his style of training BTW).
But if you push out the other 6 reps with slightly less than full ROM say 80%… then do you think that will create a training response? Aye son, it will.

Curls, Dips, Presses, Pulls… after failure, i always do some partials - as far as the fatigue will let me. Sometimes i work [primarily in a pertial ROM to strengthen my lift through that angle.

Just lift heavy stuff, to the best of your ability. And if you row 135lbs for sets of 8 perfect reps, then stop when you are 1" off the chest, then A/ The weight is no-where near heavy enough to begin with and B/ You are not getting the most from that set as you could. That IS NOT failure IMO.

Joe

33

[quote]Joe Joseph wrote:
It is a personal thing… I like ATG squats for the same reason… (although i am now having to add extra sessions to work on my form alone!)

For chest, i have healthy shoulders and a wide/thick ribcage AND i am short, (restricted ROM) so i lower to my chest with no problems. In all honesty i see more growth from doing so. If injury or the potential for injury stops that or you get nothing extra from it, dont bother… Plus sometimes you could do limited ROM presses to pile on the weight. Floor presses anyone (Mr Strong)?

As for the back, if it is all form you are after, then stopping where you do is fine and i believe Chad Waterbury would do something similar (I hate his style of training BTW).
But if you push out the other 6 reps with slightly less than full ROM say 80%… then do you think that will create a training response? Aye son, it will.

Curls, Dips, Presses, Pulls… after failure, i always do some partials - as far as the fatigue will let me. Sometimes i work [primarily in a pertial ROM to strengthen my lift through that angle.

Just lift heavy stuff, to the best of your ability. And if you row 135lbs for sets of 8 perfect reps, then stop when you are 1" off the chest, then A/ The weight is no-where near heavy enough to begin with and B/ You are not getting the most from that set as you could. That IS NOT failure IMO.
[/quote]

Or is it? Failure to train hard enough to ever reach your potential that is. :wink:

I agree with your first comment completely. It’s somewhat of an individual matter. I think it does also depend on what exercise you are talking about, and your specific goals.

ATG squats are very good for maintaining hip and ankle mobility (probably more important in other sports, but certainly not detrimental for a bodybuilder). Of course super heavy partials also have their place.

On chest pressing exercises I don’t use a full ROM, as I feel that the last portion of the lift is mostly shoulders and triceps. I only do the bottom portion, up until I feel that the shoulders and triceps start to take over. But, like Joe says above, one could also do top portion presses (floor press, 3 board press, rack lockouts) to really hammer the triceps and shoulders.

Floor deads are a great posterior chain exercise. But deads off a rack are also a fantastic exercise which more specifically targets the upper back.

A full ROM isn’t completely necessary on all exercises. Yes, I agree that I’d have a beginner use a full ROM, simply to learn how to correctly perform the movements. But once you get a little more advanced you can start to play with things and will likely realize that there is a time and a place for just about every variation possible of just about every exercise.

34

[quote]MODOK wrote:
What IS mildly retarded is watching a matchstick do count 10 seconds up, 10 seconds down with 35 lb dumbells for ten reps then jumping up and telling me my partial reps don’t “stimulate” the muscle enough.[/quote]

Aren’t we getting that in THIS thread?

35

It amazes me on a site with this much collective knowledge and experience how many members here just don’t get that most techniques and lifts (excluding those involving BOSU balls)have their place in certain programs for certain people at certain times. I’m a relative newbie compared to most of the vets on this site, but I do know that partial ROM lifts are generally very useful in breaking plateaus in strength and hypertrophy as well as priming the CNS for heavy weights on full ROM movements

36

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Joe Joseph wrote:
It is a personal thing… I like ATG squats for the same reason… (although i am now having to add extra sessions to work on my form alone!)

For chest, i have healthy shoulders and a wide/thick ribcage AND i am short, (restricted ROM) so i lower to my chest with no problems. In all honesty i see more growth from doing so. If injury or the potential for injury stops that or you get nothing extra from it, dont bother… Plus sometimes you could do limited ROM presses to pile on the weight. Floor presses anyone (Mr Strong)?

As for the back, if it is all form you are after, then stopping where you do is fine and i believe Chad Waterbury would do something similar (I hate his style of training BTW).
But if you push out the other 6 reps with slightly less than full ROM say 80%… then do you think that will create a training response? Aye son, it will.

Curls, Dips, Presses, Pulls… after failure, i always do some partials - as far as the fatigue will let me. Sometimes i work [primarily in a pertial ROM to strengthen my lift through that angle.

Just lift heavy stuff, to the best of your ability. And if you row 135lbs for sets of 8 perfect reps, then stop when you are 1" off the chest, then A/ The weight is no-where near heavy enough to begin with and B/ You are not getting the most from that set as you could. That IS NOT failure IMO.

Or is it? Failure to train hard enough to ever reach your potential that is. :wink:

I agree with your first comment completely. It’s somewhat of an individual matter. I think it does also depend on what exercise you are talking about, and your specific goals.

ATG squats are very good for maintaining hip and ankle mobility (probably more important in other sports, but certainly not detrimental for a bodybuilder). Of course super heavy partials also have their place.

On chest pressing exercises I don’t use a full ROM, as I feel that the last portion of the lift is mostly shoulders and triceps. I only do the bottom portion, up until I feel that the shoulders and triceps start to take over. But, like Joe says above, one could also do top portion presses (floor press, 3 board press, rack lockouts) to really hammer the triceps and shoulders.

Floor deads are a great posterior chain exercise. But deads off a rack are also a fantastic exercise which more specifically targets the upper back.

A full ROM isn’t completely necessary on all exercises. Yes, I agree that I’d have a beginner use a full ROM, simply to learn how to correctly perform the movements. But once you get a little more advanced you can start to play with things and will likely realize that there is a time and a place for just about every variation possible of just about every exercise.[/quote]

Yep, i think you made the point much better!

Joe

37

[quote]MODOK wrote:
Mr. Strong wrote:
You should ALWAYS train an exercise through a full ROM, or the longest ROM that your flexibilty allows, and then if you want to, do some partial work in ADDITION to your full ROM work, NOT in place of it.

That is a silly, sophomoric view of bodybuilding. It does not apply to the real world of what the majority of bodybuilders do. The best advice is that there are no hard and fast rules to bodybuilding training… everything useful is dictated by the results it produces in a trainee. If you want to look extraordinary, you have to look at techniques that others deem “inappropriate”. Pushing the envelope is what bodybuilding has always been about.

[/quote]

I already look extraordinary, I always use full ROM, should I start using partial ROM so I can look like a fat bloated pro bodybuilder?

38

yea i bet youre real extra ordinary.

39

[quote]Mr. Strong wrote:
MODOK wrote:
Mr. Strong wrote:
You should ALWAYS train an exercise through a full ROM, or the longest ROM that your flexibilty allows, and then if you want to, do some partial work in ADDITION to your full ROM work, NOT in place of it.

That is a silly, sophomoric view of bodybuilding. It does not apply to the real world of what the majority of bodybuilders do. The best advice is that there are no hard and fast rules to bodybuilding training… everything useful is dictated by the results it produces in a trainee. If you want to look extraordinary, you have to look at techniques that others deem “inappropriate”. Pushing the envelope is what bodybuilding has always been about.

I already look extraordinary, I always use full ROM, should I start using partial ROM so I can look like a fat bloated pro bodybuilder?
[/quote]

Pro bodybuilders look fat?

I mean, if they are truly fat like an off season Lee Priest, I could see that statement, but I seriously doubt that’s what you meant.

Further, are you saying using partial reps on some movements creates a different looking muscle than muscle gained using a full ROM?

…or did you just let some words fly onto the page without thinking?

40

If people started paying less attention to details and just lifted heavy stuff on a consistent basis, I’m willing to bet they’d get bigger than they are now (given good nutrition). Yep, this isn’t all that complicated folks.