Fruits...Eat Them or Not??

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

More and more articles keep popping up saying that fructose is metabolized in the liver and preferentially stored there (or converted to fat), while glucose is preferentially stored in the muscles (before being converted to fat as well).

This means eating 300 grams of fructose will lead to more fat gain than 300 grams of glucose… even though its the same number of calories.

[/quote]

And a large percentage of fruit sugar is fructose.

Is this the twilight zone? Jesus christ.

Youre arguing both sides of the arguemtn. And youre doing a real poor job at it as well.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Fruit ain’t got fiber n micronutrients n shit, nukka? Word.

[/quote]

Did you really write ‘nukka’ ?

Go troll someone else you half brained clown.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Fruit ain’t got fiber n micronutrients n shit, nukka? Word.

[/quote]

Did you really write ‘nukka’ ?

Go troll someone else you half brained clown. [/quote]

Oh, ye of little credulty. Way to pick out the part I threw in for lawls, and ignore the point.

Are you even making a case here? Are you saying people shouldnt eat fruit?

I don’t think you’ve actually said anything here other than to insult people and point out the law of calorie balance, which no one was debating anyway.

And, yes, large quantites of fructose without fiber are bad for the body (such as juices, HFCS, and sugar). But guess what fruit has, nukka? Daz right, fibah! Which slows digestion, leading to less being converted to fat. Not to mention, again the various very-healthy-like micronutrients found in fruit, that are good for other kindsa bodystuffs. And considering that people normally don’t go apeshit with fruit the way they do with candy/bread/soda/pastries/cookies/etc, the “large quantities” part is rarely, if ever, an issue.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Fruit ain’t got fiber n micronutrients n shit, nukka? Word.

[/quote]

Did you really write ‘nukka’ ?

Go troll someone else you half brained clown. [/quote]

Oh, ye of little credulty. Way to pick out the part I threw in for lawls, and ignore the point.

Are you even making a case here? Are you saying people shouldnt eat fruit?

I don’t think you’ve actually said anything here other than to insult people and point out the law of calorie balance, which no one was debating anyway.

And, yes, large quantites of fructose without fiber are bad for the body (such as juices, HFCS, and sugar). But guess what fruit has, nukka? Daz right, fibah! Which slows digestion, leading to less being converted to fat. Not to mention, again the various very-healthy-like micronutrients found in fruit, that are good for other kindsa bodystuffs. And considering that people normally don’t go apeshit with fruit the way they do with candy/bread/soda/pastries/cookies/etc, the “large quantities” part is rarely, if ever, an issue.

[/quote]

No I am not saying that people shouldnt eat fruit. Youre completely lost.

Someone said that people dont get fat from eating fruit. I said thats not necessarily true. Youve literally made claims that support both sides.

Im done with this.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Fruit ain’t got fiber n micronutrients n shit, nukka? Word.

[/quote]

Did you really write ‘nukka’ ?

Go troll someone else you half brained clown. [/quote]

Oh, ye of little credulty. Way to pick out the part I threw in for lawls, and ignore the point.

Are you even making a case here? Are you saying people shouldnt eat fruit?

I don’t think you’ve actually said anything here other than to insult people and point out the law of calorie balance, which no one was debating anyway.

And, yes, large quantites of fructose without fiber are bad for the body (such as juices, HFCS, and sugar). But guess what fruit has, nukka? Daz right, fibah! Which slows digestion, leading to less being converted to fat. Not to mention, again the various very-healthy-like micronutrients found in fruit, that are good for other kindsa bodystuffs. And considering that people normally don’t go apeshit with fruit the way they do with candy/bread/soda/pastries/cookies/etc, the “large quantities” part is rarely, if ever, an issue.

[/quote]

No I am not saying that people shouldnt eat fruit. Youre completely lost.

Someone said that people dont get fat from eating fruit. I said thats not necessarily true. Youve literally made claims that support both sides.

Im done with this. [/quote]

…really dude? You’re really making the claim that you really believe some people have become obese due to eating fruit? Fucking seriously? Is this what I’m reading?

Please. Please tell me you think there are people out there who are morbidly obese and FRUIT is the main (or even a significant) factor in how they got that way.

And I made claims that support one side: eat whole fruit in moderation, avoid other sources of fructose.

anyone that would avoid having some fresh wild blueberries with breakfast because it’s a fruit would be hitting about 8.5 on the Richter Retard Scale.

Ok Bonez, sorry for being a jerk there. But I do think you misread her statement.

Yes, if someone is overeating or otherwise in a state to store calories as bodyfat, fruit will contribute to it. But her statement wasnt to say that fruit will never be converted to bodyfat ever - just that she has never seen a case where fruit was the main cause of any significant weight gain.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Oatmeal, rice, potatoes, quinoa, buckwheat, maltodextrin, dextrose. All more useful for physique/performance enhancement. And green vegetables, but I think at this point that’s a given.

Fruit is dessert.

And I absolutely will not be willing to do a retarded experiement like eating only fruit for whatever amount of time.

You keep saying that fruit is not the culprit. Obviously there are mutliple foods to blame for why people are obese. But the biggest problem is calories in vs calories out. If someone has a caloric maintenance level of 2200 calories and eats 3000 caloires of pure sugar (fruit) they will get fat, at some point. Its absurd that this needs to be typed out and even more embarassing that you have some sort of science background (I believe, but may be wrong). [/quote]

Why would you assume that my experiment would be eating only fruit? First of all, many of the carb sources you listed are much worse than fruit. Secondly, the ONLY way to know for sure is to try it out. No, I don’t mean just eat fruit all day and it’s pretty silly that you’d think I meant that. What I was saying was, figure out how many calories you would need to gain a pound in a week, and how many of those you would need from carbs.

Then, for a week, eat a significant portion of your daily allotment of CARBS from fruit. Don’t time these any differently than you would the other carb sources. Record your BF for a few weeks eating the fruit as a portion of your carbs. Also record your energy levels and workouts. Then, cease eating fruits and replace them with rice and oatmeal. Record the same stuff.

This only counts for whole fruits, of course.

I really can’t believe you think rice and potatoes are superior carb sources to fruit. I can tell you from my own experimentation that those foods make me sleepy for an hour after eating them and make my face break out (the cause of which is inflammation), whereas fruit does neither (as long as it isn’t something syrupy like peaches).

Just to let you know, I actually have eaten more than 300 calories in fruit for the last two weeks and it seems to effect me much better energy wise and appearance wise than when I was eating oatmeal and rice. Weird, huh? How do you explain that?

Here’s something to think about- from an evolutionary perspective people were eating fruits LOONNNGGGGG before they were eating either rice, oatmeal, or potatoes. Wouldn’t it make sense, then, that our bodies are more adapt at handling them? Quite a few fruits are specifically produced by plants to be eaten by other creatures. From a scientific perspective, you’d have to assume that many fruits have evolved to be eaten by animals and animals have developed better strategies for handling them over a longer period of time than many of the other current carb sources.

I think there’s more to the story than “they are just sugar”. It seems very weird to me that after hundreds of thousands of years of consumption, they are now reduced to a slightly elevated desert food.

[quote]Oleena wrote:
Here’s something to think about- from an evolutionary perspective people were eating fruits LOONNNGGGGG before they were eating either rice, oatmeal, or potatoes. Wouldn’t it make sense, then, that our bodies are more adapt at handling them?
[/quote]

Considering 30-40% of all people are fructose intolerant/malabsorbant, that kinda throws that theory out of the water doesn’t it.

Whatever happened to “eat everything in moderation”.

3-4 pieces won’t hurt you.

[quote]Oleena wrote:
Here’s something to think about- from an evolutionary perspective people were eating fruits LOONNNGGGGG before they were eating either rice, oatmeal, or potatoes. Wouldn’t it make sense, then, that our bodies are more adapt at handling them? Quite a few fruits are specifically produced by plants to be eaten by other creatures. From a scientific perspective, you’d have to assume that many fruits have evolved to be eaten by animals and animals have developed better strategies for handling them over a longer period of time than many of the other current carb sources.

I think there’s more to the story than “they are just sugar”. It seems very weird to me that after hundreds of thousands of years of consumption, they are now reduced to a slightly elevated desert food.[/quote]

Just to isslustrate bonez’s point. About 2 motnhs ago I tried to bulk and failed miserably. My main simple carb source was fruit and I that’s where most of my extra Kcals came from. I didnt eat any junk or candy but simply went from 1-2 pieces of fruit a day to 7 or 8 daily. I gained a lot of fat.

Now someone with better genetics might have handled it better but it still proves a point. I ate over matinace by about 1000Kcals mostly(700-800) from fruit and gained mostly fat. While its unlikly to happen with most people its still a possible outcome and thats what Bonez was saying.

You shouldnt dismiss a possibility until you have tried it.

[quote]Oregand wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
Here’s something to think about- from an evolutionary perspective people were eating fruits LOONNNGGGGG before they were eating either rice, oatmeal, or potatoes. Wouldn’t it make sense, then, that our bodies are more adapt at handling them? Quite a few fruits are specifically produced by plants to be eaten by other creatures. From a scientific perspective, you’d have to assume that many fruits have evolved to be eaten by animals and animals have developed better strategies for handling them over a longer period of time than many of the other current carb sources.

I think there’s more to the story than “they are just sugar”. It seems very weird to me that after hundreds of thousands of years of consumption, they are now reduced to a slightly elevated desert food.[/quote]

Just to isslustrate bonez’s point. About 2 motnhs ago I tried to bulk and failed miserably. My main simple carb source was fruit and I that’s where most of my extra Kcals came from. I didnt eat any junk or candy but simply went from 1-2 pieces of fruit a day to 7 or 8 daily. I gained a lot of fat.

Now someone with better genetics might have handled it better but it still proves a point. I ate over matinace by about 1000Kcals mostly(700-800) from fruit and gained mostly fat. While its unlikly to happen with most people its still a possible outcome and thats what Bonez was saying.

You shouldnt dismiss a possibility until you have tried it.
[/quote]

Interesting. What was the rest of your diet like and how were you training? Have you successfully bulked before? Did you time the fruits at all? Did you eat the same ones every day and if so what were they (I’m currently giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn’t eat bananas all day long or something like that) I definitely agree that you shouldn’t dismiss it until you try it; that’s exactly what I was saying. I’m glad you put your experience up here; so far we haven’t had anything other than “I think this”. Good to see some actual experimenting around with it. I based what I said off of the fact that I do eat a disproportionate amount of fruit compared with what’s being said on here and my system seems to handle it better than rice and oatmeal.

As for fruit intolerance, I’m researching it right now, and can’t find anything that indicates it’s anywhere as high as 30-40% and secondly, am finding that it greatly depends on the type of fruit (for instance, there’s far more sensitivity to apples than grapes in some, which makes sense as apples have tree toxins in them). It is considered a birth defect caused by a recessive gene. Food allergies in general, are what apparently are around up to 33% of the population, not specifically fruit allergies, but that may be an over-estimation. Also, it’s important to note that quite a few people display vegetable and nut sensitivies (I personally can’t eat nuts at all).

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=fructose+intolerance&btnG=Search&as_sdt=0%2C48&as_ylo=&as_vis=0
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=fruit+intolerance&btnG=Search&as_sdt=0%2C48&as_ylo=&as_vis=0

^^ My point in bringing up the veggie sensitivies is that you’d be an idiot to say we weren’t meant to eat vegetables because a few people are sensitive to them.

Fruits > Rice, potatos…

This is serious?..

Anyways, I remember Thib writing about eating fruits (A FRUIT ACTUALLY ME THINK. NOT HALF A TREE WHEN UR A TEENAGER…) in your first carb meal of the day, to replenish liver glycogen

Fruits arent the devil, but I wouldnt use it as my main carb source, as you seem to be preaching…

[quote]zraw wrote:
Fruits > Rice, potatos…

This is serious?..

Anyways, I remember Thib writing about eating fruits (A FRUIT ACTUALLY ME THINK. NOT HALF A TREE WHEN UR A TEENAGER…) in your first carb meal of the day, to replenish liver glycogen

Fruits arent the devil, but I wouldnt use it as my main carb source, as you seem to be preaching…[/quote]

Yes, for me at least, fruits are better than rice and potatoes, both of which make me tired for up to two hours after eating them.

I’m not saying they should be the main carb source. Fiberous vegetables and beans would actually be much better, as I pointed out earlier when someone asked “Can you think of a better carb source”. Also, I wouldn’t recommend eating things like fruits later in the day (dinner time or later).

As for the tree of fruits as a teenager, when they came into season I would pretty much hang out all afternoon eating them. The Asian pears didn’t grow on a huge tree, so eating about 10 of them in one sitting was about half the tree in one day. As for the plums, there were five enormous trees and we would pretty much eat them all afternoon as well while they were in season. I have NO idea how I never got the runs.

My point is simply that fruits are a good carb source and shouldn’t be thrown to the curb side or avoided like a desert. They should be understood and incorporated into a daily diet, as you pointed out.

Also, both rice and potatos are higher on the glycemic index than many fruits. Potatos are actually higher than white bread. A potato, without skin, ranks 98 on the glycemic index. White sugar ranks 100, and apple ranks 39. I have NO idea why you would consider a potato a better regular carb source than an apple or other fruit. In fact, the official glycemic index website recommends against eating potatoes.

http://www.glycemicindex.com/

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]Oregand wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
Here’s something to think about- from an evolutionary perspective people were eating fruits LOONNNGGGGG before they were eating either rice, oatmeal, or potatoes. Wouldn’t it make sense, then, that our bodies are more adapt at handling them? Quite a few fruits are specifically produced by plants to be eaten by other creatures. From a scientific perspective, you’d have to assume that many fruits have evolved to be eaten by animals and animals have developed better strategies for handling them over a longer period of time than many of the other current carb sources.

I think there’s more to the story than “they are just sugar”. It seems very weird to me that after hundreds of thousands of years of consumption, they are now reduced to a slightly elevated desert food.[/quote]

Just to isslustrate bonez’s point. About 2 motnhs ago I tried to bulk and failed miserably. My main simple carb source was fruit and I that’s where most of my extra Kcals came from. I didnt eat any junk or candy but simply went from 1-2 pieces of fruit a day to 7 or 8 daily. I gained a lot of fat.

Now someone with better genetics might have handled it better but it still proves a point. I ate over matinace by about 1000Kcals mostly(700-800) from fruit and gained mostly fat. While its unlikly to happen with most people its still a possible outcome and thats what Bonez was saying.

You shouldnt dismiss a possibility until you have tried it.
[/quote]

Interesting. What was the rest of your diet like and how were you training? Have you successfully bulked before? Did you time the fruits at all? Did you eat the same ones every day and if so what were they (I’m currently giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn’t eat bananas all day long or something like that) I definitely agree that you shouldn’t dismiss it until you try it; that’s exactly what I was saying. I’m glad you put your experience up here; so far we haven’t had anything other than “I think this”. Good to see some actual experimenting around with it. I based what I said off of the fact that I do eat a disproportionate amount of fruit compared with what’s being said on here and my system seems to handle it better than rice and oatmeal.

As for fruit intolerance, I’m researching it right now, and can’t find anything that indicates it’s anywhere as high as 30-40% and secondly, am finding that it greatly depends on the type of fruit (for instance, there’s far more sensitivity to apples than grapes in some, which makes sense as apples have tree toxins in them). It is considered a birth defect caused by a recessive gene. Food allergies in general, are what apparently are around up to 33% of the population, not specifically fruit allergies, but that may be an over-estimation. Also, it’s important to note that quite a few people display vegetable and nut sensitivies (I personally can’t eat nuts at all).

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=fructose+intolerance&btnG=Search&as_sdt=0%2C48&as_ylo=&as_vis=0
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=fruit+intolerance&btnG=Search&as_sdt=0%2C48&as_ylo=&as_vis=0[/quote]

The rest of the diet was a pretty standard diet. I kept it clean, no pizzas or hamburgers etc. I also tended to keep other carb sources like potato’s and oatmeal to a minimum. The Macro’s broke down to about 40/30/30 P/F/C, pretty standard stuff.

My training was pretty much a joke. I was doing a 6 day bodypart split. An hour a day on weights and my cardio was 3 days weekly, 20 - 25 mins of treadmill or something. On top of that I was also cycling 45 mins to and from collage.

Bananas? BUT BRAH! dont you know, you gotta be inhaling like a tree at a time to see any progress! On a serious note, I ate the same ones almost every day. My meals where split into two P+C’s(breakfast and PWO). So firts thing in the morning I would usually have three apples(one in my oatmeal and two raw), then after my workout I would usually eat another 3 - 4 apples. The only time this really differed when was I didnt have any apples in the house on that morning and I would use peaches or kiwi’s instead but that wasn’t a regular thing.

If you can handle fruit then sweet, I can handle 2 pieces a day at the very most. Otherwise it tends to spill over onto my gut. I have not encountered anyone allergic too fruit though so thats a new one for me. I will say though I do have a nut intolerance, my system cannot handle them at all.

Bottom line, if you eat 100 grams of carbs daily 30 should come from fruit at most and the rest should be from complex carbs. Fruit is far from evil and is defiantly one of the best PWO options around but there also has to be some common sense. An apple = good, a bag of 12 apples = bad(Ive eaten that much in a sitting before:)).

^^^lol. You went on the “olde English autumn bulk”, a bushel of apples per day to prepare for winter.

[quote]zraw wrote:
Fruits arent the devil, but I wouldnt use it as my main carb source, as you seem to be preaching…[/quote]

This plus everything Bonez said in this thread.

Its okay to eat some fruit, how much depends on your goals. If you add 1000 calories a day to your diet from just fruit it will have a negative effect on your physique. Fruit isn’t magical it is food, laden with sugar, mostly fructose, too much food will cause fat gain.

I personally shoot for 1-2 pieces of fruit or some blueberries most days, they make up a small portion of my carb intake so I get some health benefits from them without loading my diet full of sugar.

Pros: nutrients, fiber, restores liver glycogen primarily, low in calories, helps satisfy sweet tooth.

Cons: Not ideal source to replace muscle glycogen.

You be the judge.