I am trying to loose the last inch on my waiste and have been told by various
people in the fitness business to stay away from fruit because of the sugar in it.
I have been putting in half a large banana in my shake after my morning cardio.
Do you think this half banana is really going to make a difference in loosing the final inch?
Thanks in advance!
Fruit doesn’t do a very good job of replacing muscle glycogen post-exercise. As a general rule, I’d drop the banana in your shake and use dextrose.
As for fruit in general, I think it has been overstated by some that the sugars are terrible. Eat it in moderation (as with everything else) and instead of bananas try to eat some fruit with fiber in it.
I am new to the supplement arena and was wondering when you mention using “dextrose”, what do you actually use?
Is there a supplement you can buy called " dextrose" or do you find it in various forms of foods, supplements etc…
Also is maltodextrin considered a dextrose?
Thanks for your help!
It’s my understanding that the fruit preferentially replenishes liver glycogen stores. You need the liver properly stocked up periodically to indicate you’re well fed and prevent a starvation response. Lipolysis appears to be harder with low liver glycogen. Not sure why.
Dextrose is a carbohydrate, as is maltodextrin. They are also “sugars.”
From what I understand, dextrose is generally made from corn.
Maltodextrin is also generally produced from corn.
Fructose is “fruit sugar”
From what I’ve read and learned, maltodextrin, sucrose, and dextrose are all high glycemic index carb sources.
Fructose on the other hand has a MUCH lower GI than any of the other sugar/carbs (i’ve seen it posted at being a 22 on the scale).
Here’s the link for the GI of a lot of ‘typical’ foods
/tgetts/gi_list.html
Hope this helps
Hey, there, momuscle. Great posts by CU AeroStallion, Kinetix and yorik, all!
Manipulating carbs to achieve an ideal body comp is probably my main area of interest in the area of nutrition. Your friends in the fitness business have an unfounded fear of fructose. If everything else is right in your diet, the 1/2 bananna isn’t going to prevent you from getting lean and cut. Which isn’t to say that BBs don’t cut out fruit when trying to get down to the ultra-low BF percentages required to compete.
My concern, actually, since I care about health and good nutrition as much as I do about body comp is that one-half of a bannana isn’t enough fruit (if that is all the fruit you’re eating on a daily basis). If you’re not eating fruit, I really do hope you’re eating LOTS of green veggies instead.
You really need to be looking at the whole picture re your diet. Is your PWO nutrition optimal? Are you getting enough protein for the amount of LBM you carry? Are you doing a LITTLE cardio (but not too much)? Are you eating green veggies and salad predominantly for carbs and reserving starchy carbs for PWO only?
There are so many different variables when it comes to getting rid of the last few percentage points of BF. I really don’t believe that 1/2 of a bananna is your problem.
If you have any other questions, don’t hesitate to ask.
a little more on the topic,
what I’ve found is that Fructose is one of the main “foods” for the liver, in that it is turned to glycogen very easily by the liver, and then used locally by it as well. This seems to be a double edged sword that can work for/against you.
Because of Fructose’s very low GI it doesn’t generally yield a very high insulin response after consumption. Like was previously said, the half a banana a day isn’t gonna matter that much. You can see from the list I posted earlier that there are A LOT of fruits that you can eat with a minimal GI. Because the lower GI usually results in a lower insulin response (this is not always true some low GI foods have a high insulin response, and vice versa, google “Insulin Response” and check out the charts), fructose can actually be used to make some pretty cool “treats” if you have a sweet tooth, or “NEED carbs.” You can search around the net and find a lot of cakes and pancakes that are made with vanilla protein powders instead of flower, they use lots of egg whites, and instead of sugar, they can use fructose, thus mimicking a P+F snack.
BUT, like I said, Fructose is a double edged sword. I’ve read that if too much is consumed, there is a possibility that it might OVERWORK the liver. Nobody wants a bad liver now do they? So you should probably use the Fructose sparingly… but then again, this also seems to be very speculative, as I have never been able to find anything about liver failure from too much fruit or fructose, or chronic consumption of these. I personally would consider it to be a waste of time worrying about baking with fructose, or eating a ton of fruit, and the effect it would have on your liver. Take into consideration that most cans of pop have 30 PLUS grams of carbs, with the main ingredient generally being “HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP” and you’ll soon realize that you would have to eat a LOT of fructose just to equal that in a pop.
Finally, I would recommend searching the web about it. As for a PWO drink, maltodextrin and dextrose/glucose seem to be the quickest absorbing carbs.
CU AeroStallion, it’s not a case of fructose overworking the liver. Fructose can only be processed IN the liver, not the muscles. Fructose can only refill liver glycogen stores because the enzymes required to process and store fructose as glycogen are only found in the liver.
People’s fear where fructose is concerned is that if liver glycogen stores are full, then fructose is converted to triglyceride and stored as adipose tissue. That’s easy to accomplish if you’re eating that gosh-awful HCFS (High Fructose Corn Syrup), but far harder to do if you’re eating a few servings of fruit per day (which have ALL sorts of health benefits). Fructose content varies, but a good GENERAL/GENERIC number is that about 10% of the dry weight of fruit is actually fructose.
Once again, there are huge benefits to eating a variety of richly colored fruits like blackberries, blueberries, raspberries, papaya, pineapple. Not only does it lower the acid load in the body, fruit is full of antioxidents, phytonutrients (many of which are cancer protective). Fruit can lower cardiovascular risk, reduce inflammation, help with digestion. Fuit helps stabilize blood sugar levels and provides a fed-state stimulus when going the low-carb/overfeed route. Fruit in reasonable amounts and properly timed is useful for those that are diabetic and hypoglycemic.
For all its many benefits, I believe fruit belongs in everyone’s diet, no matter what their body comp goals are. If it’s cut out temporarily, NBD, but it should be a part of our lifestyle as much as protein or good fats or green veggies.
I agree completely. Yes, the liver does have the ability to convert the fructose to triglycerides, and that is what I was referring to. There was speculation about the triglycerides clogging liver capillaries and other health problems, but like we both agree, you’d need a TON of fructose for that, given the amount of pop that the average american drinks.
One point I think we forgot.
You can usually by dextrose and/or maltodextrin at your local wine brewing shop for very cheap.
JB said this about fructose in a previous thread. I thought that it might be useful
"You’re correct in that once absorbed, fructose is taken to the liver for processing. Once there, it’s incorporated into glycolytic pathways after regulatory steps (namely, it enters as fructose 1 phosphate). BUT the author of your article took a very complex topic and screwed it up in its simplification.
By bypassing regulatory steps, you’re not at all comitted to the production of fats. The fructose 1 phosphate can very easily be split into a DHAP and a glyceraldehyde (which then gets phosphorylated to form glyceraldehyde 3 phosphate). These 2 substrates then feed nicely into glycolysis and carb metabolism to be either stored as glycogen or sent to the kreb’s cycle for oxidation (it’s burnt up).
Now, this process is energy costly (requires alot of extra ATP) so that is why huge doses of fructose may affect liver function (from detoxification to blood lipoprotein alterations), but we’re talking 80, 90, 100 grams of pure fructose in a sitting.
There is another consideration that my labmate Eric Noreen and I have discussed. High fructose and glucose combined might be a no-no for fat gain and blood lipids. Since high glucose can promote the upregulation of the fat synthesis machinery and increased production of free fatty acids (FFA’s are made from extra acetylCoA in the kreb’s cycle), by adding fructose at this time the DHAP or glyceraldehyde could actually provide substrates for fat production. You see the glyceraldehyde can form glycerol and glycerol can combine with fatty acids already present (from excess acetyl coA). This makes a triglyceride that can be shipped out to the cells.
BUT REMEMBER!!! THIS HAPPENS WITH HIGH GLUCOSE TOO!!! Bottom line…do not eat huge amounts of fructose (>30g per meal is a safe bet) and do not eat alot of glucose and fructose together. The worst foods are sweetened with high fructose corn syrup and other sugars. These are the villans. Fruits and the bit of fructose in GROW are not!!!"
On non workout days I often eat meals with 70g of carbs coming from one piece of fruit, peppers, tomatoes, onions, carrots etc… This is all glucose, fructose and sucrose (a dissacharide of glucose and fructose). Does this meal now suck??
Do any of you have a daily limit on fructose consumption?
Tommy,
No, I really wouldnt say I have a limit on fruit. Not a set one at least. I try and get 2-3 serving at least a day of fruit. Sometimes more. I just fit them in my first three meals of the day which are P+C.
I think this is yet another situation that boils down to the individual. Some ppl seem ok with fruit and cutting, some dont. I am OK with it.
Plus all the nutritional value, I feel is simply to great to pass up. Vits, mins, antioxidants, fiber, and the damn stuff taste GOOOOD.
So I always have some type of berry, then usually an apple, and some other various fruit if wanted.
Refill that liver so that your other carb sources, from Surge and such, will be used on your Muscles. I cant site a study or anything, but I figure that if my liver isnt full then my Surge will go there first. The body does a great job of being preferential to survival over muscle growth. I am betting that it feels correct liver values are a bit more important than building that precious LBM we all seek.
LOL
Hope this Helps.
Fruity Phill