Thanks for the input Bastion1. Re: 45 and natural; you HIT the nail on the head! Using the time proven 3-way split, a favoutrite of many, sounds like you have it all dailed in.
I typically train legs every 10 days, more often than upper body due to the lack of overlap that the upper body receives. I missed last week’s leg session, so it ended up being 18 days this time around. But I can’t discount how much stronger I was in that workout. Push, pull, legs, or chest and back, legs, delts and arms. 1 on 3-4 days off. It’s pretty much exactly how John heart and Chad Shaw train. Chad actually trains each bodypart every 3 weeks!.
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So in other corners of this forum we have guys who train push pull practically every day and then those who hit a muscle once every 3 weeks. You gotta wonder , what the heck?
Scott
I find legs every 14 days is about right…due to the toll they take. Recuperation is one of the most undervalued and overlooked aspects of training IMO.
I can see if you go all out on squats and the like it could take a long time like 14 days to recover but the same for upper body? I’m guessing your workouts a pretty brutal? I’ve done workouts where I’ve been sore as heck in certain muscles afterwards but to take weeks to recover seems excessive yet you guys say it works for you? After my 30 10 30 workout a week or so ago I threw in some negative chins etc and my back was sore a little but I felt recovered after 3 or 4 days . Are you thinking I would be better off waiting maybe 2 weeks or more instead of 4 days to workout again?
Scott
As Mike Mentzer used to say. “Overtraining isn’t something kinda or sorta negative. It is the worst training mistake we can make”.
I know I held myself back for years while training conventionally.
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This is probably one of those things where copying what someone else does, and expecting to get the same results might be disappointing. I’ve seen stories that go both ways: some people reduce frequency say they got great results; others do the same thing and complain that they lost size or strength. Probably just need to try it for yourself.
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hi,
if somebody need 17 days to recover from 3-4 sets workout;
figure out how much time he/she will need to recover from 10 sets ?!
may be couple months ,
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If someone requires 14 days to recover from an exercise or workout , then unless they have extremely rare genetics i would seriously question other factors such as the workout, sleep, lifestyle, diet, stress and even the judgement behind such a decision.
I am talking generally here and there is nothing personal meant by my comments.
If I begin to see proof via results , then I will happily revise my opinion.
But since Mentzer’s HD 2 came out and ultra infrequent workouts gained popularity, I have witnessed a lot of talk about the success of this , but very little in the way of recorded results .
The only exception being the “Boise Experiment” (do an Internet search) which is a topic worthy of discussion and scrutiny by itself .
Just my opinion of course.
Mark
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Has anyone looked at this study from Iran claiming Mentzer HD training doubled growth - Effects of Heavy Duty versus traditional resistance training on thigh muscle cross-sectional area
I confess I have only looked at Menno Henselmans’ review of the study. The description of the HD training didn’t sound like the Mentzer training I knew of - more frequency and volume, e.g. x3 times a week training.
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Do you by chance have a link?
I found that I made my best progress doing chins when I did negative chins and chin efforts quite often like every other day, sometimes every day. When I got disgusted and stopped doing them for 2 weeks and then tried them again I was much worse at them and it seemed like I was starting all over again.
Scott
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== Scott==
So dynasty, can you cut and paste the time proven favorite 3 way split showing everyday for 3 or 4 weeks so I can see how it works day by day?
Thanks
Scott
Seems like that is far more relevant to gauging how your body responds than someone else’s experience.
There was a stretch of training in my past, where because of missed workouts, I averaged 10 days between sessions, which were full body workouts. I recall that, at first it was a nice break, but then I started to feel deconditioned, and started losing reps.
I just looked at the study, and then reviewed Menno’s analysis. He pointed out the same thing I noticed:
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Traditional training: 4 sets of 6-12 reps at 70-80% 1RM, 2-3 minutes rest, regular tempo
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So called Heavy Duty: 4 sets of 6-10 reps, 70% of 1RM, 10 seconds rest, slower tempo.
This sets off a red flag: with a slight reduction in weight, you are able to do 4 sets, and get all the reps, while extending the time under load, and reducing the between set rest period from 2.5 minutes to 10 seconds??? I don’t believe that.
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I most certainly can train more frequently. And it does not take me 12-17 days to recover. However, I’ve made good gains training less frequently, especially considering that I hadn’t really made significant strength gains in quite some time. Adding weight to most movements has increased my size a bit as well. I used to balk at the Mentzer HD2 type stuff until I actually tried it for a while. There is lots of evidence that it works. Look up John Heart, who has trained hundreds this way. Look up Chad Shaw. Its definitely not the only way or the end all. It does work well though for those who use it. Recovery depends on so many different factors. And to be fair as I mentined before, I’m not a strict 1 set only guy. I do a few more sets than most HIT trainees.
== Scott==
You don’t have to worry about me just copying what someone else does on here and expecting results. I just like the know what people are doing. One of the main reasons I probably wouldn’t take long breaks between workouts is I enjoy working out to much. If anything I want to workout more often. After I give 30 10 30 a fair shot I’m thinking of trying splitting up workouts like bicep one day, tricep the next, back the next, delts the next , legs the next and maybe the chest the next , chins and then take a day off and start all over again?
Push ~ Decline Presses, Laterals, Pushdown
Legs ~ Leg Presses (every 2nd week), Calf Raise, Neck Work
Pull ~ Pulldowns, High Pulls, Curls
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2-3 Days between … depending on recovery.
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Intensity enhancers; rest-pause, dop sets, 30-10-30 etc, where and when needed.
Interesting. That is the first time I have seen “Heavy Duty” in an actual study.
But is this what Mike Mentzer’s Heavy Duty system actually consisted of?
The study authors state: “In this system [Mentzer HD], athletes performed [resistance training] in 4 sets with 6-10 maximal repetitions at 70% of 1-RM with 10 second of rest. They used a repetition duration of 3-4 seconds concentric, 1 second isometric contraction at the top of the range of motion, and 3-4 seconds eccentric.” Note: they also training x3 a week.
I thought in HD there were fewer sets, the training was super-setted, and frequency was less?