Thats a good idea Silas, but our schedules are totally opposite. I did give him my number and an enthusiastic welcome to call me. I’ll meet with him soon to talk about training. I wouldn’t charge him though.
Billy
~x~ - Ahhhh. I get it.
ONE THING that no one has mentioned yet is the convenience of machines.
With free weights, especially when trying to out-do yourself, you need a…
SPOTTER!
This is what has kept me away from free weights on some days. I just need to run in and then run out of the gym, and partners always make my work outs last longer.
…especially when they are wearing short skirts and hooker boots. haha
squat rack = no spotter needed
Here is the link:
Wing-
Maybe I’m missing something. How difficult is it to work up to your reasonably heavy sets, then grab someone for thirty seconds to give you a spot? I’ve never had a problem doing this in hardcore gyms or commercial meat markets. In fact, this way you don’t even have a partner slowing you down. You’ve got a spot when you need it, but you don’t have anyone complaining about front squats, deadlifts, glute-ham raises, JM presses, etc.
Machines are best used to target weaknesses. They should (almost) never be the basis of a program.
Peace,
Ryan
Thanks for all the info guys. I’ll show him this thread and it should convince him I’m telling the truth and that I’m really not a fitness terrorist. Billy
I just have to add my thoughts on this personal trainer. Anyone who calls themself a “personal trainer”, yet hands out the same generic, machine-laden program to every client is lazy, irresponsible, obviously lacking in basic exercise physiology knowledge, and does not deserve to be called a personal trainer. In fact, it is “personal trainers” like this that give all personal trainers a bad name.
And you can tell her that from me.
I wouldn’t dispute that free-weights are the best training method. But, I’m going to defend personal trainers who teach clients the machines exercises. Most beginners are intimidated by free weights. At least starting clients on decent machines will initiate a mind-muscle connection, and help clients understand the different areas and muscles that are the target, from there you can transition to free weights and explain the benefits of doing so. I don’t think most machines will cause harm in the beginning.
Most importantly, most people will watch others on the machines, and copy bad form (I’ve seen very very bad form on machines). At least, if a trainer is teaching correctly, they won’t be moving backwards right off the bat.
It should take a good trainer no more than two minutes to convince a client that he or she is generally going to get far better results from free weights, that even the monsters in the gym started somewhere, and that building a strength base with machines before moving on to the weights is counterproductive. If you can’t explain these points to the average gymgoer in such a way that he or she understands, you may not be cut out to be a trainer. Sure, there’s an initial fear of looking silly or doing something wrong, but you get past that in a hurry. Add to it the greater real-world carryover of free weights and the fact that 80% of gymgoers continue exercising the way they start out exercising, and it’s irresponsible to start them out with anything but free weight exercises.
Chris I’ve got no problem explaining to him that machines suck. But I’ve got to get him past the ideas that were put into him by the crappy trainer. What better way to do so than with the testemonies of real lifters like the T-mag crew. When many people discuss an issue you’re more likely to get the truth than if you listen to just one.
Now how about the disadvantages of isolation excercises?
For instance the leg extension, leg press and leg curl machine does not train the CNS to use all lifting muscles together like the squat does.
In the same way, barbell curls don’t train the muscles to work together like chins and rows work the “pull” muscles. Hit me back.
Billy
Hey BillyBoy-
My last post was more in response to Rebecca. It sounds like you’ve got a good grasp of the reason isolation machines are suboptimal, to say the least. The big thing I’d add to it is that if you’re interested in real-world strength at all, then it’s important to acknowledge that muscles don’t contract in isolation in the real world. Rather, every action you perform is the result of a system of muscles working together in concert–some as prime movers, some as stabilizers.
In general, the cliche that any chain is only as strong as its weakest link applies. You may be able to move impressive poundages on the machines, but that strength is pretty much useless if you can’t support or stabilize the weight on your own.
Good thread. Some great posts from Chris. Here’s another viewpoint as to why isolation is sub-optimal. This is taken from one of Chad Waterbury’s Branding Iron columns. He’s talking about why rope pulls are the best biceps exercise…
…
[b]This exercise will allow for the greatest load (i.e. stress) on the forearms, biceps, and upper back musculature. The standing barbell curl is a great exercise for the biceps since it allows for a large load, but it’s a single-joint movement. Remember, multi-joint movements are always superior for hypertrophy increases.
A trainee with a 135-pound barbell curl (1RM) can easily perform this exercise using twice as much weight. Voila, you’ve just introduced the biceps to a much greater load than they’re used to! Okay, maybe you think that’s a stupid argument because obviously the strong upper back muscles are helping to pull the load. True, but what?s your point? The forearm muscles are also getting the workout of their life?that?s part of why this exercise is so effective. I?ve found the best way to increase biceps girth is to utilize exercises that challenge the forearms, biceps, and upper back simultaneously.
That?s why an experienced or intelligent trainee will quickly recognize the awesome hypertrophy-inducing benefits of chin-ups and semi-supinated pull-ups. Merely isolating the biceps (even with a heavy load) will be inadequate since the body would rather increase the size and strength of the entire chain to avoid strength and size imbalances. [/b]
…
Re-read that last sentence.
Say your legs were never introduced to the leg press machine, but you had them doing the many variations of the squat, would your legs have stronger, more capable muscles or would it be prudent to use the leg press on occasion?
My home gym consists of just the basics (no fancy machines). Am I really missing out on some great exercises or what? My guess would be no, but I’m asking anyway.
Thanks,
Jonez68.
I like free weights for a few reasons. They are more difficult to get the hang of but the results are more transferable to real world activities. Doing things like squats, deads, and clean and press work more than just a few muscles, they work the body as a system, the way it’s built to work.
Doing isolation stuff on machines involves little to no sweat, little to no increase in heart rate, and limited real world benefits. You have to do a lot of different machines to involve all the muscles the big compound lifts do. For the most part people that use only machines tend to lack core strength and don’t have much for traps. It’s probably better than nothing but there are better ways to use your time in the gym.
Smith Machines are good for some things. Single legged squats are one. Stretching is another. Oh, and freeing up the squat rack and power cage.
Rebecca, in priciple I agree with the use of machines for beginners. The problem is that many trainers never switch to free weights: always leg curls,leg extensions, etc.
They simply leave their clients alone with the machines. The scenario is: people using machines with very low weights usually at high speed. What for ? For this reason I propose only free weights for beginners. Serious trainers should always supervise the proper form of execution of any exercise.