Way back in the day, I used to do Dumbell Pullovers but never felt they did much.
I never had access to a Nautilus Pullover, but I think I used a machine made by Paramount. It seemed okay, but nothing special either.
Pulldown and Rows have been the foundation of my back work for almost 33 years. Those two moves have done it all for me.
It seems you need to apply more volume to dumbbell pullovers, based on my own observations. Back in the day, I also felt the db pullover was a worthless excercise, as it never felt “right”. Turns out I should have emphasized more on the negative, performing slower reps, and turning up the volume.
I should probably add I have great mobility in my shoulders and thus can use the entire movement - which probably is an advantage, considering the movement has its peak contraction at 120-180 degrees.
To me, pullovers in ladders is the definitive answer.
I know that many of you guys give credit to Bill DeSimone and his work. But how many of you have really read his stuff?
I look at threads like this and wonder…
If you had read his work and not just skimmed through it, then you’d know that dumbbell pullovers are not an exercise he recommends, for several reasons.
Firstly there are the shoulder issues at the extreme stretch…
Secondly, there are also issues with the spine at the stretched point ( this is also true of machine pullovers) as you are hyperextended while under load.
There is also the point that with dumbbell pullovers the most difficult portion of the exercise (at the stretch), does not match the peak torque for the lats. So either you end up using too light a weight, just so you can reach the stretched point, or you use a weight that seems manageable while it is over your face, only to put yourself in danger as you lower into a stretch.
Plus there is the issue of a heavy dumbbell going backwards and forwards directly over your face. Accident waiting to happen?
With bands, as many of you have been discussing them on this thread… the fact that the resistance is low to negligible at the start of a movement, then gets significantly more as the band stretches, pretty much means that in most cases bands resistance curve does not match up congruently with the peak torque of the muscles.
DB POs have always had too much triceps in them for my taste. Limiting the ROM to the bottom half helps that AND hits lats fairly well. More Volume, I feel, will only emphasize the triceps more, as they will fatigue well before your lats.
My problem with Pulldowns have always been biceps and forearm involvement, with grip often being a weak link. For several years, I’ve done a variation that hits the lats awesomely.
Check out Ryan Humiston’s YouTube ‘STOP Doing This’ back video. His EMG testing bears out the locked-arm position for superior lat stimulation on many moves (check out his 1-Arm Rows!). Pronated Grip is also strongly indicated on almost all back exercises for better Lat focus (I’ve been saying that for years too!)
It took awhile for me to feel the Nautilus pullover in my lats and it was a machine I wanted to try more than any other when I first began reading about Nautilus.
It beat up my triceps too much unless I used it as the second exercise in a double pre-exhaust and had to utilize it in Zones to really feel it . I found the middle , contracted and stretched order to work best.
For the longest time I refused to admit that I felt the simple straight arm pull down hit my lats better than Jones great invention, but for me that still stands today.
The Dumbell Pullover is a very limited range of motion exercise. The lats are only involved in a small part of the range of motion…where there is resistance. In that sense, I can definitely see where it would require more sets. Triceps are involved quite a bit. There are some EMGs that demonstrate how little lat is involved in the movement. I would also avoid any ‘extreme’ stretching as that places a toll.
The leverage Powertec Pulldown machine I use has a long range of motion with more resistance across the range. It’s a little lighter when the arms are extended. But then the Bent over row especially slightly upright will provide resistance pretty nicely for lats…and bring the traps and rhomboids more into play. Sometimes I use dumbells instead of barbell for this exercise.
I’ve been using bands for last year or so for internal and external rotator cuff exercises.
Every 3rd or 4th workout I do is ALL bands. I enjoy them — great pump. Of course, PTs gave me bands years and years ago for my RC rehab work!!
Simon! A bit off thread, but would you please mind sharing your band workout here? I am also using bands for “emergency” workouts when unable to get to the gym. My favourite band excercise is probably banded pushups.
Curious, what is an emergency workout?
LOL! My take on emergency workouts are 20 min of banded supersets in between other duties.
Do you stress out if you miss a workout?
No, not really. I mean, the emergency workout is just a substitute for one of my two weekly workouts. More important is to listen to your body. Are you prepared to excercise today, or would you feel better after another day of rest? Whenever I train, I want to be prepared for a heavy and/or intense workout. Mentzer was onto something.
Ok, i misunderstood your meaning of “emergency”…it almost sounds like a gym addict not wanting to miss a workout just because., no rhyme or reason
I don’t want to leave you hanging, but I’m on the road for work right now. I’ll follow-up this weekend
Check my new “Band” Wagon Thread!!
Arthur Jones talked about doing DB pullovers on a decline bench.
where did hd say that exactly source
Nautilus Bulletin #1 Chapter 37
stiff-arm pullovers, carried to the point of failure - performed on a decline (head lower than feet) bench if you have one available.
love jones what a genius