Frank Yang - from Brad Pitt to Bane

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161

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Gmoore17 wrote:

As for Gregron’s last point, I think once you’ve reached a high level of development, you can’t expect to eat “worse” than you have in order to get there, and expect to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. You will, of course, be eating MORE at 240 pounds (for example) than you were at 200 pounds, as you have more muscle, but I think if, after so many years, you find yourself at 240 pounds and 14% bodyfat, and then start eating “worse”, as a natural trainee, you will not be gaining muscle and losing fat.

To be honest, I’d really like to see you and Cortes continue your discussion, because I think you’re both rational, knowledgeable dudes, with slightly differing opinions on this.

I’m not trying to say PX is not rational or knowledgeable, not trying to take a side, but it’s clear that a “debate” between you and PX simply becomes an “argument”, you guys have too much history to actually keep it on topic (again not taking sides, but look at the past couple pages, it’s obvious), whereas I think you and Cortes both respect each other a bit more and can have a better discussion about it.
[/quote]

I have no history with Greg. I think he is way too under-experienced and under-educated to have the attitude he does on this forum.

I also think giving out false info about biology or insulin just because that is the current “bro science” angle has already gone too far.

You have doctors and extremely developed people here…but it honestly seems like some of you literally fight the people who have the actual backgrounds to justify the topics they discuss.

This is not an argument about who competes and who doesn’t. This is about how I would never see this “discussion” go past 5 seconds if they actually involved someone who looked like Cortes vs someone looking like Greg face to face.

Bottom line, steroids didn’t even need to be mentioned here…and we see that quite a lot on this forum lately from the exact same people.[/quote]

the flaw in your thinking is that a 7ft tall pro basketball player who happens to be a phd in sports science can pontificate all he wants that short non doctors should listen to only tall doctors when it comes to the best way to play basketball. but everyone else knows that the 7ft doc doesnt necessarily know more about the subject as it applies to shorter people. How could he, he’s not short. And all his bb skills and phd count for nought

162

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

the flaw in your thinking is that a 7ft tall pro basketball player who happens to be a phd in sports science can pontificate all he wants that short non doctors should listen to only tall doctors when it comes to the best way to play basketball. but everyone else knows that the 7ft doc doesnt necessarily know more about the subject as it applies to shorter people. How could he, he’s not short. And all his bb skills and phd count for nought
[/quote]

Wow.

You train for big muscles. You don’t train for height. I am not sure what this post is even trying to say.

163

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

I think you are totally correct. Also,the other arguments about short term changes to ones diet having no effect in the long term, or that after gaining 30lbs of mscle ones body wont react the same way are irrelevant.
[/quote]

Irrelevant? If I can literally eat donuts twice a week without concern as opposed to when I was much smaller, you say this is “irrelevant”?
[/quote]

doughnuts twice a week doesnt sound much of a worsening. but ok, I’ll play, making small bad changes wont make a noticable difference. Making many bad changes will.

164

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

the flaw in your thinking is that a 7ft tall pro basketball player who happens to be a phd in sports science can pontificate all he wants that short non doctors should listen to only tall doctors when it comes to the best way to play basketball. but everyone else knows that the 7ft doc doesnt necessarily know more about the subject as it applies to shorter people. How could he, he’s not short. And all his bb skills and phd count for nought
[/quote]

Wow.

You train for big muscles. You don’t train for height. I am not sure what this post is even trying to say.[/quote]

you understand very well. A person can only truly see things from their own perspective and a person who is naturally good at something cannot understand why others find the same thing so difficult

165

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

I think you are totally correct. Also,the other arguments about short term changes to ones diet having no effect in the long term, or that after gaining 30lbs of mscle ones body wont react the same way are irrelevant.
[/quote]

Irrelevant? If I can literally eat donuts twice a week without concern as opposed to when I was much smaller, you say this is “irrelevant”?
[/quote]

doughnuts twice a week doesnt sound much of a worsening. but ok, I’ll play, making small bad changes wont make a noticable difference. Making many bad changes will.
[/quote]

But…didn’t several people already say that? And weren’t we told that this is impossible by Greggy?

166

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

the flaw in your thinking is that a 7ft tall pro basketball player who happens to be a phd in sports science can pontificate all he wants that short non doctors should listen to only tall doctors when it comes to the best way to play basketball. but everyone else knows that the 7ft doc doesnt necessarily know more about the subject as it applies to shorter people. How could he, he’s not short. And all his bb skills and phd count for nought
[/quote]

Wow.

You train for big muscles. You don’t train for height. I am not sure what this post is even trying to say.[/quote]

you understand very well. A person can only truly see things from their own perspective and a person who is naturally good at something cannot understand why others find the same thing so difficult
[/quote]

But…who here was “naturally good” at getting really big? I wasn’t. I worked for it.

167

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
… Bottom line, steroids didn’t even need to be mentioned here…and we see that quite a lot on this forum lately from the exact same people.[/quote]

This is what I had mentioned above. That was Cortes’ ONLY mistake.[/quote]

To be honest I think that was Gregron’s only mistake. Cortes gave advice, mentioned he’d been able to eat sloppier while maintaining/improving his physique, but quantified it with the fact that he is assisted, as that is something that may not be as realistic for a natty, but said the underlying principles were the same. I think the fact that he quantified it with “but keep in mind I’m assisted,” is precisely why Gregron really didn’t need to mention that (Gregron did not call Cortes out specifically but I can see how it looks like that was what he was referring to). However, I do think Gregron was just trying to point out that you do need to consider those effects, and Cortes and Gregron even seemed to be pretty much agreeing a few posts later until other posters like Harrypotter got stupid with it. See:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
It is not a disputed issue that assisted lifters are able to benifit more than natural trainees when it comes to pushing your body weight up (getting softer)

Muscle gain is much slower for nattys than assisted lifters (obvi) If frank attempts to pack on 10 more lbs in a relatively short period of time, the chances of most of that being quality weight (aka muscle) are nill as a natty.

All I said in my original post was for him to consider the source when taking advice. I never specifically mentioned you. He received a lot of advice throughout this thread.

As an assisted lifter would you agree that you can do/get away with things that you never could have done when natural?[/quote]

I have no problem with this post, now that you’ve explained it. See my post above for further explanation.
[/quote]

This was a few posts after the initial argument, and it really was pretty much cleared up there.

168

[quote]Gmoore17 wrote:
I think the fact that he quantified it with “but keep in mind I’m assisted,” is precisely why Gregron really didn’t need to mention that [/quote]

Which means we are here for no reason?

Yeah, thanks Greggy for bringing up this same issue in yet another thread.

169

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

I think you are totally correct. Also,the other arguments about short term changes to ones diet having no effect in the long term, or that after gaining 30lbs of mscle ones body wont react the same way are irrelevant.
[/quote]

Irrelevant? If I can literally eat donuts twice a week without concern as opposed to when I was much smaller, you say this is “irrelevant”?
[/quote]

doughnuts twice a week doesnt sound much of a worsening. but ok, I’ll play, making small bad changes wont make a noticable difference. Making many bad changes will.
[/quote]

But…didn’t several people already say that? And weren’t we told that this is impossible by Greggy?[/quote]

I dont know, did they? Im just giving you my opinion

170

171

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

the flaw in your thinking is that a 7ft tall pro basketball player who happens to be a phd in sports science can pontificate all he wants that short non doctors should listen to only tall doctors when it comes to the best way to play basketball. but everyone else knows that the 7ft doc doesnt necessarily know more about the subject as it applies to shorter people. How could he, he’s not short. And all his bb skills and phd count for nought
[/quote]

Wow.

You train for big muscles. You don’t train for height. I am not sure what this post is even trying to say.[/quote]

you understand very well. A person can only truly see things from their own perspective and a person who is naturally good at something cannot understand why others find the same thing so difficult
[/quote]

But…who here was “naturally good” at getting really big? I wasn’t. I worked for it.[/quote]

my point exactly.if you are good at something (and you clearly are good at getting big) you cant really see things from the pov of one not so good at getting big. you dont even realise that you are good at it, you think its all down to work ethic

172

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

the flaw in your thinking is that a 7ft tall pro basketball player who happens to be a phd in sports science can pontificate all he wants that short non doctors should listen to only tall doctors when it comes to the best way to play basketball. but everyone else knows that the 7ft doc doesnt necessarily know more about the subject as it applies to shorter people. How could he, he’s not short. And all his bb skills and phd count for nought
[/quote]

Wow.

You train for big muscles. You don’t train for height. I am not sure what this post is even trying to say.[/quote]

you understand very well. A person can only truly see things from their own perspective and a person who is naturally good at something cannot understand why others find the same thing so difficult
[/quote]

But…who here was “naturally good” at getting really big? I wasn’t. I worked for it.[/quote]

my point exactly.if you are good at something (and you clearly are good at getting big) you cant really see things from the pov of one not so good at getting big. you dont even realise that you are good at it, you think its all down to work ethic
[/quote]
??

I just wrote I was NOT. What are you talking about?

173

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[/quote]

schoolboy attempt at humour combined with a put-down. probably due to a lack of language skills

174

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

the flaw in your thinking is that a 7ft tall pro basketball player who happens to be a phd in sports science can pontificate all he wants that short non doctors should listen to only tall doctors when it comes to the best way to play basketball. but everyone else knows that the 7ft doc doesnt necessarily know more about the subject as it applies to shorter people. How could he, he’s not short. And all his bb skills and phd count for nought
[/quote]

Wow.

You train for big muscles. You don’t train for height. I am not sure what this post is even trying to say.[/quote]

you understand very well. A person can only truly see things from their own perspective and a person who is naturally good at something cannot understand why others find the same thing so difficult
[/quote]

But…who here was “naturally good” at getting really big? I wasn’t. I worked for it.[/quote]

my point exactly.if you are good at something (and you clearly are good at getting big) you cant really see things from the pov of one not so good at getting big. you dont even realise that you are good at it, you think its all down to work ethic
[/quote]
??

I just wrote I was NOT. What are you talking about?

[/quote]

you think you are not, but clearly you are. you just dont know it because it felt hard to you

175

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[/quote]

schoolboy attempt at humour combined with a put-down. probably due to a lack of language skills [/quote]

LOL.

He’s a doctor.

What do you do?

176

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

you think you are not, but clearly you are. you just dont know it because it felt hard to you
[/quote]

LOL. So, it couldn’t be that I knew what I was doing…it has to be that it happened because it was so easy.

177

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Gmoore17 wrote:
I think the fact that he quantified it with “but keep in mind I’m assisted,” is precisely why Gregron really didn’t need to mention that [/quote]

Which means we are here for no reason?

[/quote]

Basically yes I think he didn’t need to bring it up in this thread, because Cortes quantified it himself. But I do think he meant it as “keep in mind where you’re getting your info from and that it does make a difference,” not “Cortes isn’t qualified to give advice because he’s not assisted,” and I think it got blown way out of proportion because of other posters (Harrypotter started the shitstorm, but those are the type of posts that should really just be ignored).

Trying to tread lightly here for the same reason as ID… there’s not really a plethora of super developed and intelligent people here giving out advice, Gregron has built a pretty impressive physique and seems like one of the more rational people here, so it sucks you two can’t have a rational discussion (by “history” I just meant you two have had a few arguments that veered off topic and you clearly both don’t respect each other).

178

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

you think you are not, but clearly you are. you just dont know it because it felt hard to you
[/quote]

LOL. So, it couldn’t be that I knew what I was doing…it has to be that it happened because it was so easy.[/quote]

partly, yes

179

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

the flaw in your thinking is that a 7ft tall pro basketball player who happens to be a phd in sports science can pontificate all he wants that short non doctors should listen to only tall doctors when it comes to the best way to play basketball. but everyone else knows that the 7ft doc doesnt necessarily know more about the subject as it applies to shorter people. How could he, he’s not short. And all his bb skills and phd count for nought
[/quote]

Wow.

You train for big muscles. You don’t train for height. I am not sure what this post is even trying to say.[/quote]

you understand very well. A person can only truly see things from their own perspective and a person who is naturally good at something cannot understand why others find the same thing so difficult
[/quote]

But…who here was “naturally good” at getting really big? I wasn’t. I worked for it.[/quote]

my point exactly.if you are good at something (and you clearly are good at getting big) you cant really see things from the pov of one not so good at getting big. you dont even realise that you are good at it, you think its all down to work ethic
[/quote]
??

I just wrote I was NOT. What are you talking about?

[/quote]

you think you are not, but clearly you are. you just dont know it because it felt hard to you
[/quote]

How can you be so shure about that?

180

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[/quote]

schoolboy attempt at humour combined with a put-down. probably due to a lack of language skills [/quote]

Hahahahahahahhahahahaha

Who said this was directed at you?

You came in wanting to fight that is obvious, have fun.