Sorry, guys… but I’m coming from a country, where getting a gun is pretty hard. Still, we’re one of the safest countries in the world, crime-wise (look it up, it’s Austria).
…
Austria also doesn’t have the same cultural problems that create the majority of our crime.
i love it when foreigners critique America’s gun laws. kthxbai
BTW- Mir was YOKED for that last fight.
Some of you act like women can’t already go out and get a gun with no training beforehand. If she wants one all she has to do is go to the pawn shop or gun shop and pick out her favorite color. Saying that women shouldn’t be allowed to own a gun sets back civil rights 30 years. Hopefully the big bad government won’t infringe on my constitutional right to do this anytime soon.
The bottom line is that guns are a really bad idea in the hands of the public, whether obtained legally or otherwise (save in respect of those who use them for legitimate sporting pursuits with training e.g. target shooting, clay pigeons etc.).
I have to agree with FireStorm Warrior (despite his cringeworthy and hopefully ironic name 
) Generally speaking, countries with strict gun control laws have a much lower incidence of gun crime and deaths resulting from gun incidents (although it needs to be acknowledged that citing crime statistics is a pretty meaningless exercice unless a significant pinch of salt is taken - so many factors (govermental policy, political motivation, police resourcing etc) impact on the reporting/recording of crime stats).
As for “guns don’t kill people, people (rappers) kill people”, whilst strictly true, I think it represents a pretty laissez faire attitude. Ultimately (and unfortunately), I think America reaps what it sows when it comes to the issue of guns in the hands of the public and policy-makers unwillingness or inability to better restrict access to guns (even if it means impinging on a few civil liberties).
Simple argument is: Less guns = less bullets shot = less bullets residing in members of the public.
Oh here it goes.
I’m pro-gun by the way in nearly every way imaginable. I’m not fond of concealed carry, but if someone wants to have one in their car, I’m all for it, and I’m a firm believer that every home should have a gun as well.
However, it was the idea of teachers (who are surrounded by children all day… that’s asking for an accident) having a gun struck me as thoroughly retarded, as did the idea of a bunch of soccer mom rambos running to each other’s defense.
That doesn’t, however, mean we should be like the ball-less mainland of Europe and just give up our guns. That would be thoroughly un-American.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
And if Tiger Woods Wife had a gun?
The majority of women I know are waaayyyy to emotional to have a gun.[/quote]
And if the 1000’s of women that are raped every year had a gun?
The bottom line is that guns are a really bad idea in the hands of the public, whether obtained legally or otherwise (save in respect of those who use them for legitimate sporting pursuits with training e.g. target shooting, clay pigeons etc.).
…
Thats just fucking stupid. More people will be killed by cars and McDonalds this year then by guns in the next 20.
[quote]FirestormWarrior wrote:
Are they exactly allowed to own guns if they buy them illegaly? Don’t think so…
That’s like saying people should be allowed to buy drugs because it’s kind of unfair only criminals are “allowed” to enjoy that wonderful high? Sorry, that analogy sucks, but you know what I’m getting at…
[/quote]
No, your analogy sucks. Drugs have been outlawed for 30 years and people have no problem getting them today. They are smuggled into the country illegally. Just because a piece of paper says something is against the law doesn’t mean criminals are going to go “ah shucks” and turn in their gun to the police. Your logic is flawed, this isn’t fairy tale world. People who are on drugs will rob a store and not hesitate to shoot you in the face for $5 dollars. It’s been done time and time again. Most of those people were unelgiable to purchase a gun legally because of previous crimes (felons are not allowed to own a gun), so they bought it from Rob in the alley for $30 bucks. Yeah that’s how cheap throw away pistols are on the black market. Outlawing guns or making them hard to purchase legally would only allow these thugs to carry them around. And no, their not allowed to. Their criminals, they don’t care about the law.
It’s actually not a totally different story. If a guy wants to kick your ass and take your stuff, it doesn’t really matter if he has a gun or a knife. I’ll agree with you that pepper spray is a GREAT self-defense weapon. For many of these criminals though, pepper spray isn’t going to stop them from kicking in your door, shooting you, raping your wife, and then stealing your stuff. In cases like this a gun is your only real way to protect yourself, your family, and your property.
I dunno how you got that feeling from what I previously wrote. I would sure be proud of my sister though if she gunned down a man who was trying to rape her. Don’t really care how your European ethics on that matter. Around here we like to stop crimes before they happen.
[quote]MightyCivil wrote:
The bottom line is that guns are a really bad idea in the hands of the public, whether obtained legally or otherwise (save in respect of those who use them for legitimate sporting pursuits with training e.g. target shooting, clay pigeons etc.).
I have to agree with FireStorm Warrior (despite his cringeworthy and hopefully ironic name ) Generally speaking, countries with strict gun control laws have a much lower incidence of gun crime and deaths resulting from gun incidents (although it needs to be acknowledged that citing crime statistics is a pretty meaningless exercice unless a significant pinch of salt is taken - so many factors (govermental policy, political motivation, police resourcing etc) impact on the reporting/recording of crime stats).
As for “guns don’t kill people, people (rappers) kill people”, whilst strictly true, I think it represents a pretty laissez faire attitude. Ultimately (and unfortunately), I think America reaps what it sows when it comes to the issue of guns in the hands of the public and policy-makers unwillingness or inability to better restrict access to guns (even if it means impinging on a few civil liberties).
Simple argument is: Less guns = less bullets shot = less bullets residing in members of the public.[/quote]
OR
More guns = less personal attack on innocent people = less bullets resideing in members of the public.
Like Mir was saying in the video, nobody is going into a police station and shooting it up. If more people had guns, the criminals would think twice before kicking in your door or smashing in your car window.
[quote]Valor wrote:
The bottom line is that guns are a really bad idea in the hands of the public, whether obtained legally or otherwise (save in respect of those who use them for legitimate sporting pursuits with training e.g. target shooting, clay pigeons etc.).
…
Thats just fucking stupid. More people will be killed by cars and McDonalds this year then by guns in the next 20.[/quote]
No, but your response comes pretty close.
C,mon work a bit harder, have a little think before you start typing. What point are you trying to make here? I completely agree with the statement you’ve made (save for the ‘fucking stupid’ bit) despite it’s irrelevance to the subject under discussion. Shall we discuss the fatality rate from smoking as well…? Do you want me to criticise the Germans for not limiting the speed on their autobahns…?
[quote]MightyCivil wrote:
Do you want me to criticise the Germans for not limiting the speed on their autobahns…? [/quote]
No, I want you to criticize them for allowing Hitler to take their guns from them, and making the citizenry completely defenseless.
I forget who said it originally, but it stands as true that every dictatorship first bans guns, then starts banning books. When those two things happen, you’re on a dark, dark road.
Stolen from my man Varq.
“Pick up a rifle, a really good rifle, and if you know how to use it well, you change instantly from a mouse to a man, from a peon to a caballero, and most importantly, from a subject to a citizen.”
= Jeff Cooper
I heart gun threads.
[quote]elano wrote:
[quote]MightyCivil wrote:
The bottom line is that guns are a really bad idea in the hands of the public, whether obtained legally or otherwise (save in respect of those who use them for legitimate sporting pursuits with training e.g. target shooting, clay pigeons etc.).
I have to agree with FireStorm Warrior (despite his cringeworthy and hopefully ironic name ) Generally speaking, countries with strict gun control laws have a much lower incidence of gun crime and deaths resulting from gun incidents (although it needs to be acknowledged that citing crime statistics is a pretty meaningless exercice unless a significant pinch of salt is taken - so many factors (govermental policy, political motivation, police resourcing etc) impact on the reporting/recording of crime stats).
As for “guns don’t kill people, people (rappers) kill people”, whilst strictly true, I think it represents a pretty laissez faire attitude. Ultimately (and unfortunately), I think America reaps what it sows when it comes to the issue of guns in the hands of the public and policy-makers unwillingness or inability to better restrict access to guns (even if it means impinging on a few civil liberties).
Simple argument is: Less guns = less bullets shot = less bullets residing in members of the public.[/quote]
OR
More guns = less personal attack on innocent people = less bullets resideing in members of the public.
Like Mir was saying in the video, nobody is going into a police station and shooting it up. If more people had guns, the criminals would think twice before kicking in your door or smashing in your car window.[/quote]
Some countries have very strict gun control laws and (I hesitate to say ‘as a direct result’ but at least in part) enjoy significantly lower gun-related crime levels.
If you can accept that increased regulation can reduce gun crime on a macro level (I accept that there will always be instances where a person has sourced a gun from somewhere and used it for an illegal purpose(s). That is reality.) then would you not be willing to forsake your constitutional right to bear arms for the greater good?
I appreciate that there are a tonne of cultural and historical issues with gun use/ownership in America but a lot of the sentiment seems to be a reaction to one’s own personal safety on a micro level (which I understand).
The police station analogy is a little incongruous. What you’re talking about is the deterrent factor. Texas has the death penalty and a history of governors happy to see it exercised - does that stop crime? No it doesn’t. If everyone has a handgun in their home, would that result in the criminals retiring from crime as a means of earning a living? Would they suddenly start filling out job applications to work in Krispy Kreme, Goldman Sachs etc.? I don’t think so.
Ignore that last bit, was just being a little facetious 
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]MightyCivil wrote:
Do you want me to criticise the Germans for not limiting the speed on their autobahns…? [/quote]
No, I want you to criticize them for allowing Hitler to take their guns from them, and making the citizenry completely defenseless.
I forget who said it originally, but it stands as true that every dictatorship first bans guns, then starts banning books. When those two things happen, you’re on a dark, dark road.[/quote]
haha, that’s pretty good.
The Germans definitely warrant plenty of piss-taking (although they’ve started to redeem themselves in my book recently…one word - Oktoberfest. I reckon we could bring about world peace and solve gun crime…we just need a big enough beer tent)
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
That doesn’t, however, mean we should be like the ball-less mainland of Europe and just give up our guns. That would be thoroughly un-American. [/quote]
What leads you to the conclusion we’re ball-less? Drink hard last night, did you?
[quote]Valor wrote:
Sorry, guys… but I’m coming from a country, where getting a gun is pretty hard. Still, we’re one of the safest countries in the world, crime-wise (look it up, it’s Austria).
…
Austria also doesn’t have the same cultural problems that create the majority of our crime.[/quote]
You think so? How would you know?
Europe is having massive multi-cultural problems right now.
Austria’s no exception.
then would you not be willing to forsake your constitutional right to bear arms for the greater good?
…
Impossiable. One simply does not follow the other.
Austria:
Ethnic groups
Austrians 91.1%, former Yugoslavs 4% (includes Croatians, Slovenes, Serbs, and Bosniaks), Turks 1.6%, German 0.9%, other or unspecified 2.4% (2001 census)
Religions
Roman Catholic 73.6%, Protestant 4.7%, Muslim 4.2%, other 3.5%, unspecified 2%, none 12% (2001 census)
Languages
German (official nationwide) 88.6%, Turkish 2.3%, Serbian 2.2%, Croatian (official in Burgenland) 1.6%, other (includes Slovene, official in Carinthia, and Hungarian, official in Burgenland) 5.3% (2001 census)
U.S.
Ethnic groups
white 79.96%, black 12.85%, Asian 4.43%, Amerindian and Alaska native 0.97%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.18%, two or more races 1.61% (July 2007 estimate)
note: a separate listing for Hispanic is not included because the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean persons of Spanish/Hispanic/Latino origin including those of Mexican, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Dominican Republic, Spanish, and Central or South American origin living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.); about 15.1% of the total US population is Hispanic
Religions
Protestant 51.3%, Roman Catholic 23.9%, Mormon 1.7%, other Christian 1.6%, Jewish 1.7%, Buddhist 0.7%, Muslim 0.6%, other or unspecified 2.5%, unaffiliated 12.1%, none 4% (2007 est.)
Languages
English 82.1%, Spanish 10.7%, other Indo-European 3.8%, Asian and Pacific island 2.7%, other 0.7% (2000 census)
urban population: 82% of total population (2008) U.S.
urban population: 67% of total population (2008) Austria
Population
8,210,281 (July 2009 est.)
Population
307,212,123 (July 2009 est.)
I rest my case.
[quote]MightyCivil wrote:
[quote]elano wrote:
[quote]MightyCivil wrote:
The bottom line is that guns are a really bad idea in the hands of the public, whether obtained legally or otherwise (save in respect of those who use them for legitimate sporting pursuits with training e.g. target shooting, clay pigeons etc.).
I have to agree with FireStorm Warrior (despite his cringeworthy and hopefully ironic name ) Generally speaking, countries with strict gun control laws have a much lower incidence of gun crime and deaths resulting from gun incidents (although it needs to be acknowledged that citing crime statistics is a pretty meaningless exercice unless a significant pinch of salt is taken - so many factors (govermental policy, political motivation, police resourcing etc) impact on the reporting/recording of crime stats).
As for “guns don’t kill people, people (rappers) kill people”, whilst strictly true, I think it represents a pretty laissez faire attitude. Ultimately (and unfortunately), I think America reaps what it sows when it comes to the issue of guns in the hands of the public and policy-makers unwillingness or inability to better restrict access to guns (even if it means impinging on a few civil liberties).
Simple argument is: Less guns = less bullets shot = less bullets residing in members of the public.[/quote]
OR
More guns = less personal attack on innocent people = less bullets resideing in members of the public.
Like Mir was saying in the video, nobody is going into a police station and shooting it up. If more people had guns, the criminals would think twice before kicking in your door or smashing in your car window.[/quote]
Some countries have very strict gun control laws and (I hesitate to say ‘as a direct result’ but at least in part) enjoy significantly lower gun-related crime levels.
If you can accept that increased regulation can reduce gun crime on a macro level (I accept that there will always be instances where a person has sourced a gun from somewhere and used it for an illegal purpose(s). That is reality.) then would you not be willing to forsake your constitutional right to bear arms for the greater good?
I appreciate that there are a tonne of cultural and historical issues with gun use/ownership in America but a lot of the sentiment seems to be a reaction to one’s own personal safety on a micro level (which I understand).
The police station analogy is a little incongruous. What you’re talking about is the deterrent factor. Texas has the death penalty and a history of governors happy to see it exercised - does that stop crime? No it doesn’t. If everyone has a handgun in their home, would that result in the criminals retiring from crime as a means of earning a living? Would they suddenly start filling out job applications to work in Krispy Kreme, Goldman Sachs etc.? I don’t think so.
Ignore that last bit, was just being a little facetious
[/quote]
How about Mexico? Home of the murder capital of the world and they have had very strict gun laws for the past 80 years.
I’m not so much worrying about the greater good as I am worrying bout ME, my family, and my property. If someone breaks into my house looking for trouble, I want to be able to defend myself why is that so hard to understand.
Legal gun owners aren’t the ones going around causing trouble so why punish them?