Open Carry in NH

Loose_Tool · May 4, 2008, 5:12pm

Open carry is legal in NH. Free Staters organized an open carry trash cleanup in a neighborhood where a cop was shot and killed last summer.

From the front page of today’s Union Leader (NH’s largest newspaper):

[i]Duel points: Armed cleanup draws mixed reaction

By MICHAEL COUSINEAU
New Hampshire Union Leader Staff
12 hours, 6 minutes ago

MANCHESTER ï¿½?? Men with handguns strapped to their hips picked up trash around playground equipment at Harriman Park yesterday, including metal pieces from a gutted television left next to a park trash can.

“I think it’s an awesome idea,” said Central Street neighbor Gregg Bukette.

But at Enright Park a few blocks away, the cleanup crew didn’t receive such an enthusiastic review when Rick McKinstrie saw guys with guns pass by while he was playing basketball.

“I thought it was intimidating,” McKinstrie said on a raw, damp afternoon.

The group looked to press twin causes: cleaning up the neighborhood and celebrating the ability to carry a weapon as long as it’s not concealed.

“We picked up a lot of trash,” said David Geyer of Merrimack, who saw a story in yesterday’s New Hampshire Union Leader and decided to help.

Dan Garthwaite of Manchester walks with his dog, Daisy, while wearing a gun on his hip during a cleanup on Laurel Street in Manchester yesterday afternoon.

“A lot of people saw us walking around and didn’t see us as a threat,” said Geyer, who carried his Colt .38 Special.

Nine people spent more than a hour collecting trash until they ran out of bags. Four of them said they didn’t own guns.

“I sold the ones I owned to move to New Hampshire,” said Ryan Marvin, who helped organize the cleanup.

He moved from Dallas as part of the Free State Project, which wants to recruit liberty activists to relocate here and push for limited government and protection of constitutional rights. Eight of the nine men are part of that effort.

Marlene Columb said she appreciated the work but doesn’t think the area has a crime problem.

“Right now, it isn’t bad. A few years ago, it was bad,” she said.

Asked about the armed men, she said, “I hope it never comes to that. That’s kind of scary.”

Manchester police Capt. Rick Riley said he was unaware of anyone contacting police about the group’s efforts.

“As long as the behavior is lawful, then we are comfortable with that,” Riley said.

Marvin said the main goal was to get people “concerned about their neighborhoods. That we’re carrying firearms should be secondary,” he said.

Jim Lynch of Wilton said the public needs to become more comfortable with people owning firearms.

“You’ve got to get gun owners out of the closet,” he said.[/i]

Brazen_T · May 4, 2008, 5:38pm

Interesting article.

I’m all for the legal ability to carry a firearm and I understand that in a few select states, the only way to do so is open carry, but having said that, they majority of people I’ve met who open carry tend to have a bit of a “cowboy” mentality.

I don;t want to lump all open carry individuals into a category, but that’s what I’ve witnessed. If open carry is the only way to carry in the state you live in, then so be it.

I’d personally rather conceal carry. There’s a good thread on open carry stories on glocktalk.com…interesting to hear about the publics reaction to seeing people open carry.

Schwarzfahrer · May 4, 2008, 5:53pm

I definitely don’t want to live in a cowboy fantasy world.

Where would you want to see your kids play:

a) a place with moderate to high criminal activity where you can carry guns and openly display them

or

b) a place with low crime where guns aren’t allowed at all?

You can atually vote with your feet!

orion · May 4, 2008, 6:14pm

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I definitely don’t want to live in a cowboy fantasy world.

Where would you want to see your kids play:

a) a place with moderate to high criminal activity where you can carry guns and openly display them

or

b) a place with low crime where guns aren’t allowed at all?

You can atually vote with your feet![/quote]

a

Schwarzfahrer · May 4, 2008, 6:52pm

well Orion, I guess you’d better pack your stuff…

Loose_Tool · May 4, 2008, 6:54pm

[quote]Brazen T wrote:
I’d personally rather conceal carry. There’s a good thread on open carry stories on glocktalk.com…interesting to hear about the publics reaction to seeing people open carry.[/quote]

To me, open carry is a political statement about right to carry. In a state that permits concealed carry, which NH is, I’d opt for concealed for tactical purposes. Open carry = shoot me first. Concealed carry makes it a guessing game for the bad guy.

Loose_Tool · May 4, 2008, 6:57pm

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
b) a place with low crime where guns aren’t allowed at all? [/quote]

Option “b” sounds like a place where the old and weak have no real viable option to defend themselves against the young and strong. I vote for living in a place where self preservation for all is a human right. If that means a “cowboy” state, so be it.

Schwarzfahrer · May 4, 2008, 7:02pm

[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
b) a place with low crime where guns aren’t allowed at all?

Option “b” sounds like a place where the old and weak have no real viable option to defend themselves against the young and strong. I vote for living in a place where self preservation for all is a human right. If that means a “cowboy” state, so be it.
[/quote]

It’s a big simplification, of course.

The point is, most countries with a weapon fetish and a high crime rate are shitholes. Most countries with low crime and practically no weapons are good places to raise kids.

orion · May 4, 2008, 7:12pm

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
b) a place with low crime where guns aren’t allowed at all?

Option “b” sounds like a place where the old and weak have no real viable option to defend themselves against the young and strong. I vote for living in a place where self preservation for all is a human right. If that means a “cowboy” state, so be it.

It’s a big simplification, of course.

The point is, most countries with a weapon fetish and a high crime rate are shitholes. Most countries with low crime and practically no weapons are good places to raise kids.

[/quote]

That is definitely not true.

Switzerland is armed to the gills and has as little crime as Germany.

Where concealed carry permits are introduced violent crime drops, where guns are taken away from law abiding citizens it rises. That is something you can easily verify yourself.

So, Germany would probably have even less crime than it has now if guns were permitted.

The best argument for private gun ownership is German history anyway. It is true that the Jews no longer died of gun inflicted injuries, but I wonder whether this soothed them in their final minutes.

It is also true that a few armed and half starved Jews resisted the Wehrmacht for weeks with only a few guns.

“I fear the government that fears my guns” is not American right wing propaganda but a realistic historic point of view when it comes to gun prohibition.

I am thinking of getting a life time membership of the NRA just to piss Europeans off.

Loose_Tool · May 4, 2008, 7:15pm

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
b) a place with low crime where guns aren’t allowed at all?

Option “b” sounds like a place where the old and weak have no real viable option to defend themselves against the young and strong. I vote for living in a place where self preservation for all is a human right. If that means a “cowboy” state, so be it.

It’s a big simplification, of course.

The point is, most countries with a weapon fetish and a high crime rate are shitholes. Most countries with low crime and practically no weapons are good places to raise kids.

[/quote]

Any correlation between between availability of guns and crime rates is tenuous, at best. [EDIT: on a country-by-country level.] As far as states to raise kids, NH was ranked #1.

http://www.kidscount.org/datacenter/summary/summary4.jsp

Neuromancer · May 4, 2008, 7:22pm

[quote]orion wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
b) a place with low crime where guns aren’t allowed at all?

Option “b” sounds like a place where the old and weak have no real viable option to defend themselves against the young and strong. I vote for living in a place where self preservation for all is a human right. If that means a “cowboy” state, so be it.

It’s a big simplification, of course.

The point is, most countries with a weapon fetish and a high crime rate are shitholes. Most countries with low crime and practically no weapons are good places to raise kids.

That is definitely not true.

Switzerland is armed to the gills and has as little crime as Germany.

Where concealed carry permits are introduced violent crime drops, where guns are taken away from law abiding citizens it rises. That is something you can easily verify yourself.

So, Germany would probably have even less crime than it has now if guns were permitted.

The best argument for private gun ownership is German history anyway. It is true that the Jews no longer died of gun inflicted injuries, but I wonder whether this soothed them in their final minutes.

It is also true that a few armed and half starved Jews resisted the Wehrmacht for weeks with only a few guns.

“I fear the government that fears my guns” is not American right wing propaganda but a realistic historic point of view when it comes to gun prohibition.

I am thinking of getting a life time membership of the NRA just to piss Europeans off.
[/quote]

I agree with you and loose tool wholeheartedly.

Loose_Tool · May 4, 2008, 7:24pm

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
orion wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
b) a place with low crime where guns aren’t allowed at all?

Option “b” sounds like a place where the old and weak have no real viable option to defend themselves against the young and strong. I vote for living in a place where self preservation for all is a human right. If that means a “cowboy” state, so be it.

It’s a big simplification, of course.

The point is, most countries with a weapon fetish and a high crime rate are shitholes. Most countries with low crime and practically no weapons are good places to raise kids.

That is definitely not true.

Switzerland is armed to the gills and has as little crime as Germany.

Where concealed carry permits are introduced violent crime drops, where guns are taken away from law abiding citizens it rises. That is something you can easily verify yourself.

So, Germany would probably have even less crime than it has now if guns were permitted.

The best argument for private gun ownership is German history anyway. It is true that the Jews no longer died of gun inflicted injuries, but I wonder whether this soothed them in their final minutes.

It is also true that a few armed and half starved Jews resisted the Wehrmacht for weeks with only a few guns.

“I fear the government that fears my guns” is not American right wing propaganda but a realistic historic point of view when it comes to gun prohibition.

I am thinking of getting a life time membership of the NRA just to piss Europeans off.

I agree with you and loose tool wholeheartedly.

[/quote]

When I look at county-by-country murder rate statistics, SA is way up there. Are things as bad as they look on paper?

Neuromancer · May 4, 2008, 7:27pm

[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
orion wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
b) a place with low crime where guns aren’t allowed at all?

Option “b” sounds like a place where the old and weak have no real viable option to defend themselves against the young and strong. I vote for living in a place where self preservation for all is a human right. If that means a “cowboy” state, so be it.

It’s a big simplification, of course.

The point is, most countries with a weapon fetish and a high crime rate are shitholes. Most countries with low crime and practically no weapons are good places to raise kids.

That is definitely not true.

Switzerland is armed to the gills and has as little crime as Germany.

Where concealed carry permits are introduced violent crime drops, where guns are taken away from law abiding citizens it rises. That is something you can easily verify yourself.

So, Germany would probably have even less crime than it has now if guns were permitted.

The best argument for private gun ownership is German history anyway. It is true that the Jews no longer died of gun inflicted injuries, but I wonder whether this soothed them in their final minutes.

It is also true that a few armed and half starved Jews resisted the Wehrmacht for weeks with only a few guns.

“I fear the government that fears my guns” is not American right wing propaganda but a realistic historic point of view when it comes to gun prohibition.

I am thinking of getting a life time membership of the NRA just to piss Europeans off.

I agree with you and loose tool wholeheartedly.

When I look at county-by-country murder rate statistics, SA is way up there. Are things as bad as they look on paper?[/quote]

I’m afraid they are…

Loose_Tool · May 4, 2008, 7:39pm

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
orion wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
b) a place with low crime where guns aren’t allowed at all?

Option “b” sounds like a place where the old and weak have no real viable option to defend themselves against the young and strong. I vote for living in a place where self preservation for all is a human right. If that means a “cowboy” state, so be it.

It’s a big simplification, of course.

The point is, most countries with a weapon fetish and a high crime rate are shitholes. Most countries with low crime and practically no weapons are good places to raise kids.

That is definitely not true.

Switzerland is armed to the gills and has as little crime as Germany.

Where concealed carry permits are introduced violent crime drops, where guns are taken away from law abiding citizens it rises. That is something you can easily verify yourself.

So, Germany would probably have even less crime than it has now if guns were permitted.

The best argument for private gun ownership is German history anyway. It is true that the Jews no longer died of gun inflicted injuries, but I wonder whether this soothed them in their final minutes.

It is also true that a few armed and half starved Jews resisted the Wehrmacht for weeks with only a few guns.

“I fear the government that fears my guns” is not American right wing propaganda but a realistic historic point of view when it comes to gun prohibition.

I am thinking of getting a life time membership of the NRA just to piss Europeans off.

I agree with you and loose tool wholeheartedly.

When I look at county-by-country murder rate statistics, SA is way up there. Are things as bad as they look on paper?

I’m afraid they are…

[/quote]

I wish you the best of luck maintaining the right to keep and bear arms.

Schwarzfahrer · May 4, 2008, 7:40pm

[quote]orion wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
b) a place with low crime where guns aren’t allowed at all?

Option “b” sounds like a place where the old and weak have no real viable option to defend themselves against the young and strong. I vote for living in a place where self preservation for all is a human right. If that means a “cowboy” state, so be it.

It’s a big simplification, of course.

The point is, most countries with a weapon fetish and a high crime rate are shitholes. Most countries with low crime and practically no weapons are good places to raise kids.

That is definitely not true.

Switzerland is armed to the gills and has as little crime as Germany.

Where concealed carry permits are introduced violent crime drops, where guns are taken away from law abiding citizens it rises. That is something you can easily verify yourself.

So, Germany would probably have even less crime than it has now if guns were permitted.

The best argument for private gun ownership is German history anyway. It is true that the Jews no longer died of gun inflicted injuries, but I wonder whether this soothed them in their final minutes.

It is also true that a few armed and half starved Jews resisted the Wehrmacht for weeks with only a few guns.

“I fear the government that fears my guns” is not American right wing propaganda but a realistic historic point of view when it comes to gun prohibition.

I am thinking of getting a life time membership of the NRA just to piss Europeans off.
[/quote]

I said “most countries with a weapon fetish and a high crime rate are shitholes.” Switzerland has little crime, that’s true, but it doesn’t fit in the high crime area.

As to the issue that concealed or open carry reduces crime, I really don’t think so. Last time I checked (I think my first major TNation exchange of ad hominems/aka Politics forum debate), the data was weak. One small village switching to open carry doesn’t really excite me.

If Germany would allow guns en masse, I’d really have a problem with that.

The Ghetto uprisings are gun propaganda, at best.
A government will never fear guns, because it’s not a person. Guns would never have stopped the rise of either Mao, Hitler or Stalin because the masses tend to march with their fuhrer, as you know.

Neuromancer · May 4, 2008, 7:44pm

[quote]
I wish you the best of luck maintaining the right to keep and bear arms.[/quote]

Those rights have already begun to be weakened,and will only be further eroded,but thank you.

orion · May 4, 2008, 7:58pm

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
orion wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
b) a place with low crime where guns aren’t allowed at all?

Option “b” sounds like a place where the old and weak have no real viable option to defend themselves against the young and strong. I vote for living in a place where self preservation for all is a human right. If that means a “cowboy” state, so be it.

It’s a big simplification, of course.

The point is, most countries with a weapon fetish and a high crime rate are shitholes. Most countries with low crime and practically no weapons are good places to raise kids.

That is definitely not true.

Switzerland is armed to the gills and has as little crime as Germany.

Where concealed carry permits are introduced violent crime drops, where guns are taken away from law abiding citizens it rises. That is something you can easily verify yourself.

So, Germany would probably have even less crime than it has now if guns were permitted.

The best argument for private gun ownership is German history anyway. It is true that the Jews no longer died of gun inflicted injuries, but I wonder whether this soothed them in their final minutes.

It is also true that a few armed and half starved Jews resisted the Wehrmacht for weeks with only a few guns.

“I fear the government that fears my guns” is not American right wing propaganda but a realistic historic point of view when it comes to gun prohibition.

I am thinking of getting a life time membership of the NRA just to piss Europeans off.

I said “most countries with a weapon fetish and a high crime rate are shitholes.” Switzerland has little crime, that’s true, but it doesn’t fit in the high crime area.
As to the issue that concealed or open carry reduces crime, I really don’t think so. Last time I checked (I think my first major TNation exchange of ad hominems/aka Politics forum debate), the data was weak. One small village switching to open carry doesn’t really excite me.

If Germany would allow guns en masse, I’d really have a problem with that.

The Ghetto uprisings are gun propaganda, at best.
A government will never fear guns, because it’s not a person. Guns would never have stopped the rise of either Mao, Hitler or Stalin because the masses tend to march with their fuhrer, as you know. [/quote]

We are taling about more than 10 American states and the example of gun and even knive (!!!) prohibition in the UK.

If the data was weak, it was weak in either direction, so why not let law abiding citizens have guns?

Then, the masses usually are not prepared to drag their fellow citizens into camps- The relatively few people who are prepared to do so can easily be shot.

I also wonder if the SA would have roamed the streets threathening dissidents if they had known that most of them were armed.

Finally, I wonder why this deed of the Nazis alone is considered to be an example for modern Germany when nothing else is.

Zap_Branigan · May 5, 2008, 11:40am

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
b) a place with low crime where guns aren’t allowed at all?

Option “b” sounds like a place where the old and weak have no real viable option to defend themselves against the young and strong. I vote for living in a place where self preservation for all is a human right. If that means a “cowboy” state, so be it.

It’s a big simplification, of course.

The point is, most countries with a weapon fetish and a high crime rate are shitholes. Most countries with low crime and practically no weapons are good places to raise kids.

[/quote]

How about places with restrictive gun laws and high crime rates?

How about places with few gun laws and low crime rates?

Scrotus · May 7, 2008, 2:07am

Im going to go ahead and say, why dont we make laws prohibiting people from shooting eachother. Then there will be no murders with guns and we get to keep our guns. It’s win-win.

Imagination-land is great.

tom63 · May 8, 2008, 11:36am