I appreciate your input but you missed addressing the points I was interested in opinions on.
Was it neccessary to riot in france?
To what extent did the cultural differences between french natives and immigrants have to play in the current situation in france?
Is it beneficial or harmful to force integration of different cultures? Is it something we should be encouraging or is it something that will ultimately cause a self-destruction of the civilization we know and benefit from.
Thanks
[quote]
Was it neccessary to riot in france?
To what extent did the cultural differences between french natives and immigrants have to play in the current situation in france?
Is it beneficial or harmful to force integration of different cultures? Is it something we should be encouraging or is it something that will ultimately cause a self-destruction of the civilization we know and benefit from.
Thanks[/quote]
The riots are a stupid and destructive, but unfortunately an understandable response to the social exclusion that accompany a failure to integrate even third generation immigrant families into French society.
It is not the cultural differences as much as the difficulty of that society to offer a path to integration that does not require relinquishing in toto a previous identity. This is where US society shows the rest of the world how it should be done.
Integration is a good thing, but so is the contribution and vitality of new (and not so new) arrivals. There is nothing causally linked to immigration, when it comes to rootlessness and alienation (Tim Mc Veigh, anyone?), but it increases the risk factor, and if you do not offer a credible path, the risk becomes very high.
I am less worried about any threat to “civilisation as we know it”. Our societies have been pretty good at absorbing new arrivals. If we weren’t we would all be Basque over here.
I can’t believe it took 12 days to decide to put curfews into place.
Why weren’t curfews in place the second night?
FRANCE SHOULD JUST THROW ALL THESE FRIGIN PEOPLE OUT!
The only way things are going to improve in these 3rd world muslim hell holes is if all these dirtbags rioting are arrested, thrown on a boat, and sent back to wherever the hell it is that they came from!
you can’t give people stuff for free, or crap like this begins to happen.
diversity breeds conflict
welfare sucks
same shit is happening in this country, all this b.s. in spanish. this is a melting pot-not a frigin salad. this is all just a precursor to the crap we are going to have here with our budding “Spanish Nation”.
When my grandfather came here he barely spoke any english, but he learned-at 22 years old!
He saw it as an embarrassment to come to america and not be an american, to not learn the language, and to not become assimilated into the AMERICAN CULTURE! Having lots of muslims, mexicans and whatever the hell else wants to immigrate here, wouldn’t be such a big deal, if it wasn’t for all this diversity crap.
Hi TQB
Reasonable response.
While the riots might be understandable - it does not mean it should be tolerated. (Not saying that you are suggesting that we tolerate it).
I dont think cultural integration is an easy process unless there are higher principles that all cultures within that society are REQUIRED to adopt (whether its apart of their original cultural values or not) - such as mutual respect and tolerance. It’s not a given - and without that possible compromise cultures and peoples will collide and attempt to enforce their values on the other.
[quote]MikeShank wrote:
FRANCE SHOULD JUST THROW ALL THESE FRIGIN PEOPLE OUT!
The only way things are going to improve in these 3rd world muslim hell holes is if all these dirtbags rioting are arrested, thrown on a boat, and sent back to wherever the hell it is that they came from!
you can’t give people stuff for free, or crap like this begins to happen.
diversity breeds conflict
welfare sucks
same shit is happening in this country, all this b.s. in spanish. this is a melting pot-not a frigin salad. this is all just a precursor to the crap we are going to have here with our budding “Spanish Nation”.
When my grandfather came here he barely spoke any english, but he learned-at 22 years old!
He saw it as an embarrassment to come to america and not be an american, to not learn the language, and to not become assimilated into the AMERICAN CULTURE! Having lots of muslims, mexicans and whatever the hell else wants to immigrate here, wouldn’t be such a big deal, if it wasn’t for all this diversity crap.
[/quote]
Xenophobia rules!
[quote]Vegita wrote:
mmg_4 wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Walks like a duck.
V
werent you the one who started that brilliant thread about not needing privacy? I have nothing to even say to you, someone who could think like that doesnt even deserve a response except kiss my lilly white ass…
I actually questioned why people wanted it so bad. My basic reasoning is that the more someone wants privacy, the more I think they have something bad to hide. It’s not all that whacko of an idea but you have to get past the initial box and think outside of it for a few minutes.
You can think i’m a whacko all you want, to tell you the truth, I wonder about it myself sometimes. Basically I think real real big. I’m not saying I have all the answers, nor do I ever claim to, but I will never let stigmas and others opinions interrupt my thought process on a particular topic. I will be influenced by the information I recieve and process it the only way my brain knows how. Many on these boards don’t have the ability to take in information, because it falls too far outside of thier reality. My reality is relative so there is no boundries with which to disqualify information.
Anyways, people here aren’t stupid, if you back up liberal ideas and ideals then you’re a fucking liberal, and vice versa. You can label yourself any little cute thing you want, but for the intents and purposes of this discussion forum, you are a liberal.
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
V[/quote]
Since you say you think “outside the box” , hopefully youll understand this: I label myself an independent who is not constricted by the boundaries of liberal/conservative. So no, you dont have my permission to label me as you choose. Im glad you think like this, and i apologize for my rude comment about the thread on privacy.
[quote]MikeShank wrote:
FRANCE SHOULD JUST THROW ALL THESE FRIGIN PEOPLE OUT!
[/quote]
Yeah, let’s get rid of the Ayrabs, and the blacks, and the Franks, the Bretons, Gauls and Basques.
Neandertals RULE!
[quote]TQB wrote:
MikeShank wrote:
FRANCE SHOULD JUST THROW ALL THESE FRIGIN PEOPLE OUT!
Yeah, let’s get rid of the Ayrabs, and the blacks, and the Franks, the Bretons, Gauls and Basques.
Neandertals RULE!
[/quote]
Why do you see MikeShank’s comment in those terms instead of:
Let’s get rid of anyone who doesn’t appreciate all of the free shit they are given and who riot and burn the property of people who have worked hard to earn it.
?
[quote]doogie wrote:
TQB wrote:
MikeShank wrote:
FRANCE SHOULD JUST THROW ALL THESE FRIGIN PEOPLE OUT!
Yeah, let’s get rid of the Ayrabs, and the blacks, and the Franks, the Bretons, Gauls and Basques.
Neandertals RULE!
Why not do you see MikeShank’s comment in those terms instead of:
Let’s get rid of anyone who doesn’t appreciate all of the free shit they are given and who riot and burn the property of people who have worked hard to earn it.
?[/quote]
Ah Yes… Plymouth Rock 1620?
[quote]TQB wrote:
doogie wrote:
TQB wrote:
MikeShank wrote:
FRANCE SHOULD JUST THROW ALL THESE FRIGIN PEOPLE OUT!
Yeah, let’s get rid of the Ayrabs, and the blacks, and the Franks, the Bretons, Gauls and Basques.
Neandertals RULE!
Why not do you see MikeShank’s comment in those terms instead of:
Let’s get rid of anyone who doesn’t appreciate all of the free shit they are given and who riot and burn the property of people who have worked hard to earn it.
?
Ah Yes… Plymouth Rock 1620?
[/quote]
Oh, I’m all for the “To the victor goes the spoils” mentality. If France sacks-up and kills/deports all of these assholes I will have NO problem with that.
Doogie they can’t do that for rioting esp b/c most of the rioters have been born in france. It would be better to put the actual rioters in prison for it in the first place but deporting/killing would be sending a bad message to any future immigrants into france.
BTW i know your just talking tough about this whole thing and i have advocated sending in the army but just outright killing and deporting isn’t appropriate.
[quote]legend wrote:
mostly illegal immigrants, the guys that died were asked for their ID cards, and they ran.
What would happen in the US if you ran from a cop, who was just asking a routine question?[/quote]
Get chased down, get beat down, go to jail, do it again the next day…
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
rainjack wrote:
mmg_4 wrote:
Ah yes, once again Rainjack strikes with his undeniable wit and propensity to irritate, skirting the topic of the thread and turning it into a “me against the liberals thread”. Good job, big guy, you are absolutely brilliant.
Please read my response to AL baby.
I swear - you liberals really need to get over your hard-on for me.
The hard on is just because you are so good looking.[/quote]
It’s the avatar…
[quote]Vegita wrote:
vroom wrote:
Hmm, it’s looking like civil unrest alright. I’m not sure there is much need to throw stones across the left and right divide at this point.
The article doesn’t even highlight the ideology issue, instead talking about the high level of unemployment in the poorer sections that are doing the rioting.
As to where it will go, that is harder to say. Nothing like an emotionally charged racial or ideological event involving the authorities to set things off…
It’s a right and left issue, because it’s happening in France, which by many peoples accounts is the champion for the liberal cause in the world or some such bullshit. They have the system that liberals in this country would like, so you see we can see them crash and burn and then not follow in thier footsteps.
V[/quote]
Man, I must not have recieved my liberal talking points memo. Then again, I’m not really liberal, so that could explain it. Who again was saying France was the socialism champion of the world? I just thought they were French and that accounted for all the problems.
Seriously, I’ll admit I really don’t know anything about the French political or welfare system, so I couldn’t tell you what they should do, short of making sure the cops have plenty of ammo.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
The French are pretentious idiots!
What I can’t figure out is why African’s and Arab’s would want to live there?
[/quote]
Ever heard of genocide?
[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
The immigrant population of France is told, in the high name of multiculturalism, that assimilation isn’t necessary, and this lightning rod Balkanization is the fruit of that mindset.
Perfectly put. And Britain has the same problem. When you let a large immigrant population resist assimilation and live as a nation within a nation, particularly if they have any broad historical grievances, you are setting yourself up for disaster. Could anyone even conceive of Hispanic terrorists in the U.S.? Now try changing the “Hispanic” to “Muslim” and “the U.S.” to “France or Britain.” It’s already happened. Multiculturalism has far more baleful effects than just clogging up school curriculums.[/quote]
Google “The Plan of San Diego”, “Republic del Norte” and “Aztlan”. There are Hispanic terrorists.
[quote]WMD wrote:
Man, I must not have recieved my liberal talking points memo. Then again, I’m not really liberal, so that could explain it. Who again was saying France was the socialism champion of the world? I just thought they were French and that accounted for all the problems.
Seriously, I’ll admit I really don’t know anything about the French political or welfare system, so I couldn’t tell you what they should do, short of making sure the cops have plenty of ammo.[/quote]
The French have a very strong socialist/welfare state with extremely powerful workers unions.
They also appear to combine the worst aspects of what we know as the conservative and liberal movements in America.
[quote]WMD wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
The immigrant population of France is told, in the high name of multiculturalism, that assimilation isn’t necessary, and this lightning rod Balkanization is the fruit of that mindset.
Perfectly put. And Britain has the same problem. When you let a large immigrant population resist assimilation and live as a nation within a nation, particularly if they have any broad historical grievances, you are setting yourself up for disaster. Could anyone even conceive of Hispanic terrorists in the U.S.? Now try changing the “Hispanic” to “Muslim” and “the U.S.” to “France or Britain.” It’s already happened. Multiculturalism has far more baleful effects than just clogging up school curriculums.
Google “The Plan of San Diego”, “Republic del Norte” and “Aztlan”. There are Hispanic terrorists.[/quote]
Sure, but do you think they get even a fraction of the scarily high amount of sympathy from their fellow Hispanics that the London bombers did from British Muslims?
I agree our hispanics are much more a part of america and have been for a longer time than the muslims. Hopefully the american muslims will soon feel the same way