Former Permabulker

Fellas, coming this January I would like to start the journey to get down to 195-200 while maintaining as much of my strength/size as I can. I’m currently 6’1" and 214-216 pounds. I came here because you guys know your stuff especially regarding nutrition and macros. I literally do not know anything about anything regarding tracking food, low(er) calories, meal combinations or anything like that.

Correct me if I’m wrong but is it wise to start off with the macros a little high so I have room to make changes? Right now I was thinking of starting at 220 grams of protein, 350 carbs and 80 fat which is exactly 3,000 calories. My current daily diet is simply…calories.

My best recent lifts are,
bench: 255 for 5 singles
squat: 280x6
deadlift: 335x5
OHP: 150x7

If anyone has any training, nutrition or lifestyle tips that will aid me, I’m all ears.
EDIT: I run 5/3/1, 4 days a week and I just started throwing some conditioning in. I have a log if you want more specifics.

Nor following the Zraw route any more?

Some principles of it but as a whole, no

[quote]chobbs wrote:
Fellas, coming this January I would like to start the journey to get down to 195-200 while maintaining as much of my strength/size as I can. I’m currently 6’1" and 214-216 pounds. I came here because you guys know your stuff especially regarding nutrition and macros. I literally do not know anything about anything regarding tracking food, low(er) calories, meal combinations or anything like that.

Correct me if I’m wrong but is it wise to start off with the macros a little high so I have room to make changes? Right now I was thinking of starting at 220 grams of protein, 350 carbs and 80 fat which is exactly 3,000 calories. My current daily diet is simply…calories.

My best recent lifts are,
bench: 255 for 5 singles
squat: 280x6
deadlift: 335x5
OHP: 150x7

If anyone has any training, nutrition or lifestyle tips that will aid me, I’m all ears.
EDIT: I run 5/3/1, 4 days a week and I just started throwing some conditioning in. I have a log if you want more specifics.[/quote]

In Wendler’s ebook, he pretty much advocates reducing carbs and doing hill sprints/prowler work if you need to lose teh chubb. I’d start there. I’ve personally used the ‘100g carb cure’ with 5/3/1 last year and was able to lean out while still increasing lifts. I did 2x week hill sprints, and 2x week barbell complex after lifts.

I recently did this programme and was really pleased with the results. Dropped around 2lbs per week, eating 300 cals below maintenance low carb.

[quote]aspengc8 wrote:

[quote]chobbs wrote:
Fellas, coming this January I would like to start the journey to get down to 195-200 while maintaining as much of my strength/size as I can. I’m currently 6’1" and 214-216 pounds. I came here because you guys know your stuff especially regarding nutrition and macros. I literally do not know anything about anything regarding tracking food, low(er) calories, meal combinations or anything like that.

Correct me if I’m wrong but is it wise to start off with the macros a little high so I have room to make changes? Right now I was thinking of starting at 220 grams of protein, 350 carbs and 80 fat which is exactly 3,000 calories. My current daily diet is simply…calories.

My best recent lifts are,
bench: 255 for 5 singles
squat: 280x6
deadlift: 335x5
OHP: 150x7

If anyone has any training, nutrition or lifestyle tips that will aid me, I’m all ears.
EDIT: I run 5/3/1, 4 days a week and I just started throwing some conditioning in. I have a log if you want more specifics.[/quote]

In Wendler’s ebook, he pretty much advocates reducing carbs and doing hill sprints/prowler work if you need to lose teh chubb. I’d start there. I’ve personally used the ‘100g carb cure’ with 5/3/1 last year and was able to lean out while still increasing lifts. I did 2x week hill sprints, and 2x week barbell complex after lifts.[/quote]
I forgot about the 100 gram carb cure, that’s definetely a possibility

Does anyone have any advice on my intra workout drink…70 grams dextrose and 8 grams creatine

What kind of time limit are we looking at here? Since you want to drop about 20 pounds, I would recommend dedicating between 10 to 14 weeks to achieving your goal. Here are some suggestions:

  1. Keep calories as high as possible as long as possible (as you mentioned). This should be based on how many calories you are currently consuming, which you didn’t mention. Don’t just pick a 3000 calorie diet. Figure out how many calories you’ve been consuming (on average), and deduct between 300-500 calories from that number. Now, stick to that number until your weight stalls for a period of 3-5 days.

As I’m sure you know, daily weight fluctuates wildly based on hydration, glycogen levels, carbohydrate intake from the day before, how much food is in your gut from the day before, etc., even if you weight yourself first thing in the morning. Therefore, don’t expect to be considerably lighter everyday. However, if your weight does not decrease for a period of 3-5 days, consider adding another 300 calorie deduction.

  1. If you’re going to do cardio, these are the two best options (IMO): fasted cardio, first thing in the morning OR HIIT after your training session (or on dedicated days, whichever you prefer). That being said, I don’t recommend cardio until much later in the process, maybe around 75% of the way through. From my experience, cardio really isn’t even necessary most of the time unless you’re looking to get very lean (think 8% or lower).

However, cardio does have its benefits and I do believe it should be done for many other reasons regardless of weight, so I would suggest after week 8, begin with 1-2 fasted cardio sessions lasting between 30-45 minutes a week OR 1-2 sessions of HIIT. Add time and/or sessions to your cardio regime as you see fit and continue to progress. The biggest takeaway with cardio is don’t just add a ton of it all at once - slowly introduce it to your regime and gradually increase it.

  1. Generally, what time do you train? How many meals do you get in before and how many after? This will determine how you should time your nutrients (disclaimer: I don’t think that timing nutrients has as drastic of an effect as many would have you believe, unless you intend on getting very lean, so this may not be applicable to you at all).

  2. As far as specific macros go, the diet you have outlined is 29% protein, 47% carbs, and 24% fat. My caveat about macro ratios is that I have seen very little scientific evidence that the composition of your macro profile makes any kind of difference in overall lean mass, although a lot of broscience/anecdotal evidence does exist.

Therefore, IMO, any reasonable macro ratio should be effective, and I wouldn’t necessarily worry too much about it. That being said, I have had good success with a 30/40/30 split of P/C/F, but it really depends on the person - some people prefer higher fat, some prefer higher carbs, higher protein, etc. Your success really depends on how you feel while dieting, so don’t just follow someone’s advice to drastically reduce fat or carbs(or do whatever) if you feel like shit the entire time.

Experiment with the approach that works best for you, ride it through, and success will follow. Something I enjoy doing is having at least one moderate protein, high fat, very low carb day during the week (think less than 50 grams). If this is something that appeals to you, you may want to look into carb cycling (many good articles on this site).

  1. A little tip: everyday when you wake up, drink 16 ounces of water right away (you may also want to mix in some freshly squeezed lemon juice to induce liver detox and increase fat burning potential - suggestion brought to you a la John Meadows) - this will help with appetite suppression so that you won’t be ravenous in the mornings. This may not even be a problem for you, but it really helps for me.

Anyways, I think I posted a large enough wall of text for you to sift through (lol). If you have any questions, let me know. Dieting is one of the most interesting and enjoyable aspects of this lifestyle, because there is so much information out there, and at the same time, so much of it is entirely dependent upon the individual. I’m sure others will chime in with good advice, but if you have any other questions, let me know!

@The Greek, Thanks for the awesome post,

  1. I will take as long as need be, I would LOVE to maintain as much of my strength as possible even though it more than likely won’t happen. So this whole process is going to be slow lol

  2. For the HIT is that just like prowler pushes, rowing or complexes? If so, I just started doing that not too long ago.

  3. Training is anywhere from 4:30 to 6 depending on the day

  4. I really like the 100 gram carb cure idea/article because of its simplicity of getting your protein, fats, 100 carbs a day thats it. Carb cycling like you said for big lifting days intrigues me also. I would maybe start off with 4 days moderate carbs on lifting days (200) then do 100 on non lifting days then gradually reduce the moderate days to 2 days per week (squat and DL days).

[quote]chobbs wrote:
@The Greek, Thanks for the awesome post,

  1. I will take as long as need be, I would LOVE to maintain as much of my strength as possible even though it more than likely won’t happen. So this whole process is going to be slow lol

  2. For the HIT is that just like prowler pushes, rowing or complexes? If so, I just started doing that not too long ago.

  3. Training is anywhere from 4:30 to 6 depending on the day

  4. I really like the 100 gram carb cure idea/article because of its simplicity of getting your protein, fats, 100 carbs a day thats it. Carb cycling like you said for big lifting days intrigues me also. I would maybe start off with 4 days moderate carbs on lifting days (200) then do 100 on non lifting days then gradually reduce the moderate days to 2 days per week (squat and DL days).

[/quote]

  1. Take as long as you need. From your post, I gather that this is your first time dieting down, and is, IMO, the most important. I say this because after the first time you diet down, every time thereafter will be significantly easier. You really learn a lot about your body and what works for you (and what doesn’t) when you track your progress, macros, etc., and after the whole thing is said and done, you will have a great deal of knowledge to look over and reflect on for future use. Look at this is as a learning experience! Being slow, consistent, and observant will pay dividends in the future.

Also, try not to let fear of strength loss hinder your progress! Our expectations have a way of impacting our future performance (think of a self-fulfilling prophecy or placebo effect) - what you think will happen tends to happen, so shift your way of thinking from “I don’t want to lose strength” to “I won’t lose any strength.”

  1. Yes, exactly. My gym doesn’t have a prowler, but it has a track, so I will sprint all out for 30 seconds, and then light jog/walk for a minute. This is one round. I generally start with 5 rounds per session, and as I get further along in my diet, I will slowly work my way up to 15 rounds (add 1-2 rounds per week).

  2. Alright, cool. I’m sure you are aware of JM’s method of timing keeping most carbs pre, peri, and post workout, but what I have found to work for me is to have about 15-20% of my daily intake of carbs pre-workout, about 10% of my carbs peri-workout (if it is a long workout, I might make it 15%), and the rest post workout, usually split between two large meals. See what works best for you.

  3. That sounds like a solid plan. If I could suggest one thing, it would be to not forget about a high carb day at least once a week. If you’re used to a lot of carbs, it may be better to follow something like 2 high days, 3 moderate days, and 2 low days (not in that order, of course). I’m not sure what your diet was like before, but most individuals who switch from moderate or high-carb to low carb diets have trouble at first, especially with cravings, increased hunger throughout the day, etc. Just keep this in mind when planning your diet!

You’ll do fine, man. Don’t sweat the small stuff, just use this opportunity to learn about your body, see what works for you and what you enjoy, and you’ll have the rest of your life (lol) to optimize it.

Ya this is my first time doing anything resembling anything close to a cut lol but thanks man I appreciate it

Look in to the “renegade diet” way of eating.

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[quote]theBird wrote:
Look in to the “renegade diet” way of eating.

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Kinda looks like a blend of IF, carb back loading and low carb all in one lol

[quote]chobbs wrote:

[quote]theBird wrote:
Look in to the “renegade diet” way of eating.

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Kinda looks like a blend of IF, carb back loading and low carb all in one lol[/quote]
Pretty much. I have noticed the benefits that you would expect with the above methods you had mentioned.
Im feeling leaner and Im still progressing with my lifts.

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I think you should be able to maintain your strength and actually increase your lifts with proper training during this cut. Since you have no date that you HAVE to be shredded by (and you won’t be getting near competition leanness anyway at 200 lbs), you won’t have to do anything drastic or make any quick adjustments during your diet

[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
I think you should be able to maintain your strength and actually increase your lifts with proper training during this cut. Since you have no date that you HAVE to be shredded by (and you won’t be getting near competition leanness anyway at 200 lbs), you won’t have to do anything drastic or make any quick adjustments during your diet[/quote]
Competition leanness is nowhwere in my vocabulary lol I would be ecstatic with anything under 10%